73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: f-100 on January 05, 2012, 07:58:17 AM
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I have a saginaw 3 speed in my 79 serria 2wd 350. I'am going to the junk yard this weekend to look for another tranny. Searched and I believe it is a 10 spline input and 27 spline output. Anyone know another 4 speed tranny with same spline in and out. I assume saginaw 4 speed is but could not confirm, munice 4 speed.http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-manual-transmission-identification.php Chart show munice with same in and but not sure about the groves. Thanks.
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If you have a 3 speed how can you id your trans as a 4 speed? The floor shift with a L123 is considered a 4 speed. it is an sm465 and is stamped on the trans
A coulumn shift manual trans is id'd as a 3 speed if I am not mistaken.
If you find floor shift manual trans out of one of these trucks it should fit just fine.
The dead give away betwwen the muncie 4sp and the sm465 is the fact that the sm465 is a top loader and the muncie is not.
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The original was an automatic, someone else put the manual tyranny in. I looked under the truck and compared from the internet, positive it's a Saginaw 3 speed only. I'm hoping to find a Saginaw 4 speed or maybe a munice 4 speed. One problem I have with munice is the chart (From chart on website I posted) talks about grooves on the shift. Not sure the munice would fit my clutch. Not a big deal if the tyranny was in good shape.
Could not find spline count on Sm465. Never had a tyranny with a granny gear but I don't think I would like it from what I've read. It's not out of the picture if I found a good one with out major mods to be made. If anyone could let me know if the Saginaw 3 speed spline is the same as the Saginaw, munice 4 speed or Sm465 the would help.
I found a site that had most of the Chevy tyranny's made, what vehicle they were in and year. I did not save and can not find it back. If some knows of a site with this info if you could post or let me know that would be great! Thanks
If anyone knows of other options let me know.
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The Muncie 4 speed 27 spline, Saginaw 4 speed are both physically about the same size so your driveshaft should work without modification. The SM465 has a bolt of yoke and requires a 2 piece drive shaft unless it has a slip yoke built into the 1 piece. If you go Muncie, try to find a M20 unless your truck has a low gear in back.
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Great thanks, that helps alot. I don't know my gear ratio is but will try to look today and post. Still a little confuse on the sm465 but I will look for pics on the web. I'm going to bring my clutch alignment to see which clutch might fit.
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There were only 2 input shafts that I know of, a course and fine. You have the course. The output is a 27, same as a TH350 and 700R4. To do it as inexpensively as possible, match the length. You are going to have to get a universal shifter if you get away from what you have unless you rig up a second lever for reverse only...
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Cool thanks! dang didn't even think about the shifter, guess I will have to get that also if I fine a tranny. Good info thanks for the help. I'm going to look for an nv4500 for future use if I can fine one.
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The possibilities are endless if you have the cash and ability. The NV4500 is the ultimate in a standard transmission for a pickup truck in my opinion. They are rather large and will require a high hump cab floor.
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I do landscaping in atlanta Ga, the season is ending and cash will get cut back till around march. I really want a four speed manual tranny for now, cheap. Seems like when I have time to do things don't have the money. When I have the money don't have time. If I should find nv4500 mostly like would not get it in for awhile. Still that would give me a chance to get other parts needed and set up it up right. Looks like a nice tranny.
Headed to the junk yard soon to see what I can find.
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While you are at the junk yard look for the sm465 with a hydraulic clutch set up and take all of the pieces including the bell housing and pedal assembly and driveshaft. This will make it easier to install the sm465 and when you are ready to swap in the nv4500 you'll be able to re-use the pedal assembly and clutch cylinder. You'll need to look for them in an 85-87 set up.
If you can find this; The sm465 for now will be your cheapest option and put you heading in the right direction for when you have the time and money to install the nv4500.
Btw I had to give my sm465 away as no one would buy it from me, I know I'm not the only one on this board that has given them away or gotten them for free.
Another option is the nv3500 used in 1/2 ton chevrolets they are a little cheaper. They are not as heavy duty as the nv4500 but offer a better 1st gear for normal driving and OD and as long as you drive somewhat reasonable and keep street tires on the truck it would be a very nice option. imo. If you go this route do a little research the early versions are not as strong as the later years.
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Went to the junkyard today the only tranny I could find was the same 3 speed I already have. I'am going to a few different yards later this week. Thanks for the info on the nv 4500 and nv 3500. I'm not in a hurry for the nv series install, will have some free time in the next few months to look for tranny and parts. The yards I go have parts cheap but move fast, soon as they hit the ground parts are coming off. Any other thoughts,parts,ect. on nv install let me know so I can gather up everthing. Thanks!
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If you do eventually do a nv swap, it would be great if you took lots of pics and did a write up. I was hoping to do one after I do my 74. ( I am putting a A833 O/D out of a 84 into my 74 k10 right now ).
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I will try but this could take as long as a year before it gets done. Maybe done in the next two months. This time of is trick I never know how work/cash flow is going to be between Jan. and April. I will still be doing reseach so anything I find I will post.
Just got an e-mail from a cls that has serval munice non rock crushier 4 speeds. Hope he has an m20 reasonably priced.
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why not look for a truck the same as yours (i.e. long wheel base or standard) at the junkyard then buy the trans, driveshaft and clutch parts and get rid of that car trans lol
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Anyone got an info on I believe an sm 420. Gm591953 L314?
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If you do eventually do a nv swap, it would be great if you took lots of pics and did a write up. I was hoping to do one after I do my 74. ( I am putting a A833 O/D out of a 84 into my 74 k10 right now ).
I have some pics of the swap in my build thread. To keep it simple you really should have the hyrdraulic pedal assembly but I have gotten by without one before.
When all is said and done the swap is a little intimidating but after doing one it was so simple and straight forward. The hardest part was bleeding the line between the clutch and slave cylinder.
remember that you most likely need to have a driveshaft modified-in my case I had one built just to get rid of the 2 piece configuration-although I could have used it.
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Thanks for the info, what do I have to search for to find your thread. Having a hard time find an m20 or other 4 speed, a few 3 speeds. One guy on cls had an m20 used for 850.00, might as well buy a used nv4500 for that price. Only reason I was asking about sm 420 there was a guy that had a fresh rebuilt for 75.00. Did some research not really what I want.
Going to hit the junkyard later this week, never know what I'll find. Maybe a nice nv4500 or an m20.
Oh did you have to fix the nut inside that keeps a gear from moving, can't remenber which one. Seems to be a common problem. Some people have welded the nut in place but to me that does not seem like a good idea. If you fixed how did you go about it,thanks
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To clarify I installed the nv3500 in my truck but it is the same clutch linkage set up that you'll need to do and everthing else is ver similar. The nv3500 was used in half ton p/u's behind engines up to a 350 and the nv4500 was used in heavier duty applications in 3/4ton + p/u's
I believe the desired nv3500 is 93+ but I'd have to check it to make sure
Here is the thread
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,12330.msg93029.html#msg93029 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,12330.msg93029.html#msg93029)
nv4500's get grabbed up prety quick
The nv3500 is a better suited transmission gearing wise for a cruiser that doesn't tow and can be had for about 400(it has a car like taller 1st gear). I got mine for 400 with a fresh rebuild but do look for a newer version as they have some of the problem areas worked out. I'm not exactly easy on mine; as I like to do the occasional burnout or whip the back end around in a parking lot my engine was dynoed at 393 hp, limited slip and fairly wide tires and its holding up just fine. If it doesn't then I'll just get a rebuild for 400 or maybe I'll stumble across a 4500. Either way I can do that a couple of times b4 I can afford the 4500. As of so far I haven't had any issues with the 3500 and really like the gearing. It really gets the truck moving.
I'm don't know anything about the nut that keeps a gear from moving but I'll let you know if I find out the hard way.
Like I said earlier if you find a hydraulic pedal assembly grab it up-btw when I did mine I also grabbbed the brake booster since it had to come off anyway and make a nice little upgrade.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH4jszY9R8
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Nice truck, good build! I decide to go with the nv 3500 should fit my needs. Checked on the web and the junkyard I go to has plent of s-10's. I think it will be easier to find an nv 3500 than some of the others. Thanks for the helping me to decide on which tranny to go with. I will try to update once I find a tranny and start the install.
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Going back to junkyard this weekend. For the nv3500 install I will need flywheel,clutch,hydralic cable, and cross member from an sm465. Is that correct or i'm I missing something?
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http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,18325.msg146283.html#msg146283
click viles link on this page
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Ok thanks, still a little confused. I need hydralic slave and master cylinder, inside clutch petal set, flywheel I'll have to check. Clutch since my is a 10 spline. Bellhousing off an 8 cylinder with a nv3500 tranny. Assuming 6 cylinder won't fit my 350 engine. Oh cross member heard possible sm465 might work or do I have fabricate one. If anyone has done this swap could check my list please and let me know about the cross member, thanks.
I think my fllwheel might work, I have a 12 inch clutch in there now?
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You will need the slave cylinder and clutch cylinder. I recomend buying them new as the seals may be bad if they have sat for long. They are not really expensive.
For the line I picked up the end that goes into the slave from a slavage yard as I couldn't find anywhere to buy the unique end(it is attached with a roll pin). Then I used a new brake line and flared it on both peices and used a union to put them together(the brakeline end will match the clutch cylinder).
You can use a clutch cylinder matched to an 85 1/2 ton pick up.
The slave cylinder will need to be from whatever donor vehicle the trans comes from.
Your flywheel will work.
Match up a new clutch that would have been for the donor vehicle.
The bell housing is integrated with the trans.
I dont know if your crossmember will be any differant than the sm465. The best way to approach this is to bolt up the trans and see how things line up. On the sm465 crossmember it has to be moved back about an inch or so and you will need to drill some new holes as well. It pretty easy to see what you need to do when you get it in there.
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Ok thanks. The slave cylinder comes from an 85.5 1/2 ton, will I need a new clutch petal and the rod that goes to the master cylinder from an 85.5. My system is not hydralic can I use/modify my clutch petal or woudl it be easier to get one from an 85.5. I'm guess I need to get petal and rod from an 85.5 then buy a new master cylinder.
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The slave cylinder will need to be matched from whatever donor vehicle the trans comes from-this you can get new.
The push rod is part of the clutch(master cylinder) this you can get new its just one part.
Get the pedal assembly from a donor vehicle if you can; it has additional support rods. In a pinch your can work but it won't work as good or be as dependable.
You'll also need to get the fluid resiviour from the 85 or newer donor truck
Look for photos from page 5 of my build thread.
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http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,20862.msg171060.html#msg171060
Found an old thread with some of your pics in it, makes things more clear. Thanks again.