credit for clunkers

[Stewart G Griffin]

i've been doing alot of thinking---while driving and i think i've come up with a better solution:

First off, there are always going to be people buying new cars.  Regardless of what the economy is doing.  So, this cash for clunker program benefits them.  Some people just like getting a new car every 5 yrs or so.   The cash for clunkers would then, in this case, be sort of an incentive.   And again, for most people the numbers do not add up, but the program does stimulate auto sales in a big way.

i think it would be better if the gov't gets the trade in and then either:

1) auctions off the cars to the highest bidder.  In many cases, the participating dealer cannot accomodate very many cars due to space limitations, in that case:

2) takes the trade ins, ships them to the many gov't procurement/supply warehouses around the country (make sure each region as a good selection) and auction the cars off the highest bidder.

So, with this plan, nothing is being disabled or dismantled.   The gov't can get back a sizable portion of the money it put out for the program.   Also, someone who nees a cheaper, used car and can't buy a new one can also benefit.  The dealer is benefiting because of increased sales, so they shouldn't get anything for taking the trade in.

[Lt.Del]

i've been doing alot of thinking---

That in itself could be dangerous to your health 

So, with this plan, nothing is being disabled or dismantled.   The gov't can get back a sizable portion of the money it put out for the program.   Also, someone who nees a cheaper, used car and can't buy a new one can also benefit.  The dealer is benefiting because of increased sales, so they shouldn't get anything for taking the trade in.

There are some problems here, Stewart.  Democrats are in office.  What do they do?  Spend!  Throw out $4500 per car, doesn't matter. What did FDR do when he was president during the Great Depression?  Ever hear of CCC or WPA? The list goes on and on.  I am not saying we are not benifitting from some of that.  I visit the Shenandoah Park and Blue Ridge Parkway a couple of times each month in the summer and they are the result of the spending of the '30's.

Here are a few points to consider...

1. Green.  The color Green has a new meaning recently.  We all know what that means (thank you Al Gore--democrat).  The dems want gas guzzling, armored tanks off the road.

2.   You assume the gov't wants to offset the cost.  We know that if the federal gov't was a business, it would become bankrupt in no time at all.  They are not in the business to make money...just spend it.  I say that all the time in what I do.  I work for County Govt and I have said for my 18 yrs there, the things I have witnessed, is that if this place was a business, it would not last a year.  It doesn't care about efficiency.  The people making big bucks in charge of everything will always be making the money--job security in govt.  No stock market buyers to answer to.  Money will always be there to spend because of taxes.  Why sell these clunkers and procure some offset money?  HA!  Don't need to.  Have you seen our federal budget lately--it made news two weeks ago because the shortfall now has reached a trillion dollars in the first time in history.

3.  The govt doesnt want poor people buying used cars.  it wants to stimulate jobs.  To stimulate jobs means, mainly manufacturing.  Building NEW cars.  Not only Detroit benefits, but the companys all around that makes the auto parts that go into new cars.   The govt wants to move money.   Moving money translates to economy.  Economy translates to taxes.  People buy things.  Everything has taxes associated with it.   Did you see CNN today?  Ford has had to increase production due to this cash for clunkers thing.

Oh yes, Washington has thought this thing through.

Stewart, you are a problem solver.  If i had a business, I'd hire you as a CEO.  You can come up with ideas and you are rational in your thinking, except the fact that you assume the Gov't cares about breaking even or making money.  It doesn't.  It wants to move money around because each person that touches a particular dollar pays taxes on that dollar.  Buying a new car translates to the new consumer of that car paying sales tax, registration fees, increase insurance.  The worst thing that can happen is people hoarding money in their savings accounts.  No!  They must spend.  When they spend, each person or company that touches a dollar pays taxes on that dollar. OK. The dealer pays income taxes, profit taxes, business taxes, real estate taxes.  The insurance company pays profit taxes, income taxes, real estate taxes (or rent, in which case the landlord pays income taxes, capital taxes, real estate taxes), etc...The manufacturing company pays income taxes (has created more jobs) for all companies involved (alternator parts, engine parts, tires, computers, glass,etc.....All these companies pays taxes.   And most importantly, banks!  The banks lending the consumers the money to spend, spend, spend.  The bank pays taxes on their profits, income taxes from employees, etc...   Again, the money is moving...moving, each time it is touched, the result is taxes.  Don't we see this?   The definition of Economy should be obvious.  It means money moving.

Now, to spur this moving money, the gov't has put my son into debt and he is only 4 yrs old.  Politicians think of the here and now and not tomorrow and next generation. 

My thesis is over.  Thank you for your attention.   

.....and one more thing

i've been doing alot of thinking---while driving and i think i've come up with a better solution:

When I drive, I'm not thinking how to cure the country with its many ills, but, listening to country music and thinking how

God is Great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy
...and wondering which bar I can find a rich old geezer who'll leave his fortune to me when he kicks the bucket. 

[1HI4x4]

Sgt Del if I'm ever in Richmond Va. I'm calling you and Beer is on me. You are alot smarter than you look on the internet.

[Lt.Del]

I guess that's a compliment.  I don't know how I look on the internet.  Smart, dumb, i don't care, I am married, so I guess it doesn't matter.  So, thanks! 

Now, if ever you come to Va from KY, don't worry about buying me a drink, just bring some of that good ol'e KY bourbon,  a fifth of that Dirty Bird Kickin' Chicken oughta do just fine.   Any 101 proof?  Ha!  I gotta go geta drink now thinking about it. 


 

[Stewart G Griffin]

i need to add that in my revised plan that when a car is traded in, the vin# goes into a national registry making it inelligeble for more trade in incentives----because the car could just continually be traded in for $4500 credit.

2) The credit only applies to the following domestic automakers---gm, chryco, ford etc.


i think with these two revisions, we might have something even though, ultimately, on a singular consumer level, i don't think s/he will benefit soley nessesarily from getting a $4500 incentive to buy a new car.


Now, IF, we look at the big picture----then yes this might help spur the economy and set "everything" in motion, possibly;  For example more cars sold= more people back to work in the assembly plants, marketing, transporting the cars to the dealer, more salespeople, technicians= more people SPENDING MONEY and PAYING TAXES (thanks sgt.del for the economics lesson).

[Lt.Del]

because the car could just continually be traded in for $4500 credit

Well, the owner who trades the car in as a clunker must prove DMV registration in their name for that vehicle the previous 12 months and prove via letter from insurance company that it has been insured for that same time.  If you buy it this week, you can't trade it in next week anyway.

The credit only applies to the following domestic automakers---gm, chryco, ford etc.

I beleive I mentioned earlier that you cannot begin WWIII over this.  That translates to a tariff against Jap, German cars, etc...Any incentive to buy vehicles from just American companies invites other trade embargos against 'us'.  We do have a healthy export economy, though, it is getting worse everyday and we are slipping because other countries don't contend with Unions, company paid Healthcare, taxes, increase minimum wages, etc..It seems the more regulations the gov't puts on companies, the worse our exports get, but, that is another story.

more people SPENDING MONEY and PAYING TAXES (thanks sgt.del for the economics lesson).

Anytime Stewart 
 

[levisjohnson]

According to Consumer Reports, here’s a breakdown of the top five on each side of the coin.
Top 5 cars purchased:

   1. Toyota Corolla
   2. Honda Civic
   3. Ford Focus
   4. Toyota Camry
   5. Hyundai Elantra

Top 5 cars traded in:

   1. Ford Explorer 4WD
   2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
   3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
   4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
   5. Ford Explorer 2WD

It’s sad to me that 4 of the 5 top cars purchased are not American brands and the top 5 trade in’s are all American brands.

The latest data shows an average 15.8 mpg fuel economy on traded-in models and 25 mpg on the new, replacement vehicles – an overall 9.2 mpg increase. That’s very good news.

Your thoughts?

[eventhorizon66]

When will people realize that the problem is not too many cars or too many gas guzzlers, but too many people?

How about a "cash for scumbags" program. 

Have a local thief terrorizing your neighborhood?  Catch him and bring him in for cash.  We'll knock him over the head, slaughter him, cook him, and serve him to the world's starving masses.  Got a worthless brother who sits on his butt all day, smoking crack, while collecting a welfare check?  Bring him in and we'll give you $4500 on the spot.

Now there's a worthwhile program.

[Lt.Del]

Top 5 cars traded in:

   1. Ford Explorer 4WD
   2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
   3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
   4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
   5. Ford Explorer 2WD

Well, that, in part, tells me that people bought American SUV's in enough numbers a dozen or so years ago to make the top 5 in the trade in list. It's good to know so many American cars were made.   I am guilty of the #3 type vehicle.

Looking at the flip side, are people that anxious to get rid of their American made SUV?  I can speak for myself only, but, we were going to get rid of the Jeep anyway because of the 120,000 miles on it and we couldn't get the same amt if sold outright. It was still a very nice vehicle and only needed a crank shaft sensor way back when as far as trouble was concerned.

[1HI4x4]

When will people realize that the problem is not too many cars or too many gas guzzlers, but too many people?

How about a "cash for scumbags" program. 

Have a local thief terrorizing your neighborhood?  Catch him and bring him in for cash.  We'll knock him over the head, slaughter him, cook him, and serve him to the world's starving masses.  Got a worthless brother who sits on his butt all day, smoking crack, while collecting a welfare check?  Bring him in and we'll give you $4500 on the spot.

Now there's a worthwhile program.

Where do I sign up?

[Stewart G Griffin]

According to Consumer Reports, here’s a breakdown of the top five on each side of the coin.
Top 5 cars purchased:

   1. Toyota Corolla
   2. Honda Civic
   3. Ford Focus
   4. Toyota Camry
   5. Hyundai Elantra

Top 5 cars traded in:

   1. Ford Explorer 4WD
   2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
   3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
   4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
   5. Ford Explorer 2WD

It’s sad to me that 4 of the 5 top cars purchased are not American brands and the top 5 trade in’s are all American brands.

The latest data shows an average 15.8 mpg fuel economy on traded-in models and 25 mpg on the new, replacement vehicles – an overall 9.2 mpg increase. That’s very good news.

Your thoughts?

It does seem that way, but according to the worldwide automotive report podcast, which is probably pretty accurate (will post link when more time)  Toyota got 18% of all cash for cl sales before the first ending,  and GM got 17% of all cash for KL sales before the first ending.

So, it would be interesting to see the cars for #'s 5-10 on the lists.

a) one really bad sign of where society is headed is that a hyundai is in the top 5.  This is completely unacceptable.

One on-going problem in the north america market is that a very large consumer segment(who also don't know jack about cars) thinks that any car made in asia, or of asian origin can do absolutely no wrong.   While, at the same token, they feel that anything domestic can do absolutely no right.

What's going to turn this around?

Styling.

People forget about "supposed" mechanical shortcommings if they see a car that looks good.