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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: Ronno6 on October 06, 2018, 07:47:57 AM

Title: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 06, 2018, 07:47:57 AM
Should I forgo my notion of hopping up my 305 and follow the most popular suggestion of going to a 350,
the huge question becomes:

What 350 to start with??

I want NO computers, hence NO fuel injection.
I want a 1 piece rear main so I don't have to purchase a new flywheel.

Should I be looking for a Vortec engine?
 
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 06, 2018, 08:34:05 AM
well you say you dont want a computer but you want a vortec? also a true vortec is a 96+ year. personally i would go for a TBI truck, if not i wouldnt really care what 350 i went with, but it would also depend on your future plans on upgrades or if you plan on just building it.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 06, 2018, 09:09:52 AM
well you say you dont want a computer but you want a vortec? also a true vortec is a 96+ year. personally i would go for a TBI truck, if not i wouldnt really care what 350 i went with, but it would also depend on your future plans on upgrades or if you plan on just building it.

The Vortec was posed in the form of a question...
I am of the impression that Vortec engines can be carbureted with the proper manifold.
Can a Vortec engine be successfully operated without an ECM ?

As for plans, I want to build it and drive it.
Headers,cam and intake.
I am not up on Vortec heads/valves, but they are constantly named as good performing heads.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 06, 2018, 11:12:09 AM
you also have the option of stroking your motor (305) or stroking a 350 to a 383

305 stroker kit should bring you to 334 (prob a waist of money)
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1002-305-engine-build-questions-much-more/

350 stroker will be a 383 
if memory serves me right years ago i was looking at a stroker kit for a 350 and it would cost about 800
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Henry on October 06, 2018, 12:30:17 PM
Hi Ronno6:
See:
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12681429.html

If you want more performance, check out the other engines at this website...at about $500 increment increases in price you get higher performance.

Regards,
Henry
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 06, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
3k for a 400 hp/tq
https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982-02-camaro/ct350pc1
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 06, 2018, 08:15:39 PM
I recon I'll be looking for a 350 which is set up for a mechanical fuel pump...............
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 06, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
One with a mechanical fuel pump provision.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: VileZambonie on October 06, 2018, 10:10:35 PM
A Vortec roller cam 350 is a fine specimen. Put a carbureted intake on and roll out. The pink truck has a vortec 350 and it will light the tires in all gears...
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 08, 2018, 07:12:47 PM
The local machine shop said he could do the required machining to put a mechanical fuel pump on a vortec (or other non-mechanical pump) block for $25.00

Anybody heard of this??
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on October 09, 2018, 02:24:06 AM
The local machine shop said he could do the required machining to put a mechanical fuel pump on a vortec (or other non-mechanical pump) block for $25.00

Anybody heard of this??

i've heard of this, but does he have CNC machine to do it or the appropriate jig?
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 09, 2018, 03:24:43 AM
Cnc and a $25 bill doesn't really add up. Sounds like a drill and drill bit, never heard of this but there's plenty I haven't heard of
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: VileZambonie on October 09, 2018, 04:37:50 AM
$25 is cheap, make sure they are reputable and know what they are doing. I would assume they are only charging $25 as an add on to other work already being done.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: 75gmck25 on October 09, 2018, 07:14:19 AM
There are aftermarket 350 crate engines that have 1 piece RMS, Vortec heads, and provision for mechanical fuel pump.  I know there are a couple from Blueprint, and probably ATK has similar configurations.  However, buying a complete new crate engine puts you in the $2200-2600 range, and it sounds like you are on a relatively tight budget.

This engine has everything you want, plus a roller cam, and they will dyno it to verify its 373 horsepower. https://blueprintengines.com/collections/gm-compatible-small-block-crate-engines/products/gm-350-with-vortec-heads-roller-cam-1pc-rms
Just drop it in and go.

Bruce
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 09, 2018, 08:15:41 AM
The local machine shop said he could do the required machining to put a mechanical fuel pump on a vortec (or other non-mechanical pump) block for $25.00

Anybody heard of this??

i've heard of this, but does he have CNC machine to do it or the appropriate jig?

I need to visit his shop to see his equipment.
He did say that he would get the jig, as he receives this requested modification from time to time.
He does seem to know what he is talking about...
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 09, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
There are aftermarket 350 crate engines that have 1 piece RMS, Vortec heads, and provision for mechanical fuel pump.  I know there are a couple from Blueprint, and probably ATK has similar configurations.  However, buying a complete new crate engine puts you in the $2200-2600 range, and it sounds like you are on a relatively tight budget.

This engine has everything you want, plus a roller cam, and they will dyno it to verify its 373 horsepower. https://blueprintengines.com/collections/gm-compatible-small-block-crate-engines/products/gm-350-with-vortec-heads-roller-cam-1pc-rms
Just drop it in and go.

Bruce

Thanks, Bruce.
My budget restrictions are somewhat self-imposed. Just trying to prevent things from getting out of hand.......
That Blueprint engine looks interesting...I may have to consider it.

For the time being, I may just do a cam,intake and headers on the 305 and see what comes of it all.
As it should have 9.5:1 compression, it may all work out.
Valve job w/1.94 upgrade would cost about $225.00 + gaskets. I may do that also...not sure.
I was told that porting and polishing helps more at higher RPMs than I may turn, so probably won't go there.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on October 10, 2018, 12:40:23 PM
Well, the jig is like $600.............

This all depends on what you want out of the engine whether to stick with the 305 or go 350........
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 10, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Well, the jig is like $600.............

This all depends on what you want out of the engine whether to stick with the 305 or go 350........

If I stick with the 305, mechanical FP mounting is moot as it is already there.
Just that I am finding many Vortec motors for sale without that provision.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 10, 2018, 09:50:39 PM
Might be more beneficial to just add an electric pump and be done. What is your budget for this engine? If you plan on more power later on I don't see the point in sinking more money into the 305 now
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: fitz on October 11, 2018, 06:08:18 AM
Might be more beneficial to just add an electric pump and be done. What is your budget for this engine? If you plan on more power later on I don't see the point in sinking more money into the 305 now

  Like Irish said, it might be worth it to add an electric fuel pump and call it a day.
  I have a 1998 vortec 350 in my 69 camaro.  It has the GM performance parts aluminum 4 barrel mannifold with an edlebrock 600 carb with a Holley electric fuel pump. It runs great. 
  My motor was rebuilt at a local machine shop but  You can get the vortec 350 from Jegs for $1900
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 11, 2018, 08:33:14 AM
Might be more beneficial to just add an electric pump and be done. What is your budget for this engine? If you plan on more power later on I don't see the point in sinking more money into the 305 now

I tend to employ circular logic in these types of situations.
The most complicated choice I think I ever made was which 10 speed bicycle to buy........

I ran across a deal for a 350 +.060 4 bolt w/Pro Topline 1.94 heads and Comp cam kit,
roller rockers, and a whole host of other stuff for $1600.00 needing assembly and maybe a cam polish and intake.
But it is a 2pc rear main, and I would need a new flywheel.
Sounds good, but.....then the old circle logic comes about again.

I have Hedman 1 5/8" long tube headers, and 2 1/4" exhaust and mufflers.
Fine for the 305, but probably a bit constrictive for a healthy 350.
As pointed out earlier, should I proceed with the 305, intake and cam would be usable on a 350 if I get
compatible setup.
Only thing I'd be tossing would be headwork and gaskets.(and exhaust?)
I probably wouldn't want to do the other stuff without reworking heads ($225.00 for 1.94 upgrade.)
That wouldn't be giving the 305 a fair shot.
And 300hp would probably satisfy me........ most I've ever had under foot is my 97 F150 5.4 @220.
With a Muncie M20 (2.52 first gear) and 3.73 in the rear, I would have to believe it would pretty lively.

I should probably run a compression test first on the critter tho............

My budget can be whatever I want it to be, but, with bodywork/paint, suspension and interior yet to go,
I had better rein in my engine desires.............
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Irish_Alley on October 11, 2018, 01:12:28 PM
Since you say 2.25 exhaust and mufflers I'm taking it as you have true duals? If so they'll be good for the 350 as that size dual pipes can handle 375. Single can only handle 187
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 11, 2018, 05:52:02 PM
Since you say 2.25 exhaust and mufflers I'm taking it as you have true duals? If so they'll be good for the 350 as that size dual pipes can handle 375. Single can only handle 187

Yup. True duals...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on October 11, 2018, 07:37:48 PM
Lately, i've got a hankering to rebuild the 305 that was overheated and sitting in my garage.  (i have a penchant for small engines.....)

---port the heads myself-----because no one, apparently, wants to touch 305 heads, possibly for good reason......? ::)   So, why not try it----what is there to lose?

---Slightly deck the heads----to increase compression.

--- good roller cam.  Want lower to mid rpm though

---edlebrock performer rpm intake

---good headers and dual exhaust

And see what happens, in a 3/4 suburban.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on October 12, 2018, 02:57:31 PM
i meant milling the heads.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: VileZambonie on October 12, 2018, 09:14:20 PM
Most people find value in time well spent and money well spent. Neither can be said for the 305 when it comes to doing upgrades. If you are maintaining a perfectly good 305, no harm no foul but when upgrading, it's lipstick on a pig. We've all heard the big fish little pond stories...no need to repeat them. It's like buying a Harley and getting a Sportster. We're all big boys now, bite the bullet and be happy, you only live once.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 14, 2018, 09:31:19 AM
Most people find value in time well spent and money well spent. Neither can be said for the 305 when it comes to doing upgrades. If you are maintaining a perfectly good 305, no harm no foul but when upgrading, it's lipstick on a pig. We've all heard the big fish little pond stories...no need to repeat them. It's like buying a Harley and getting a Sportster. We're all big boys now, bite the bullet and be happy, you only live once.

It appears at this time that I have found a decent deal on a 350.
4bolt 2 piece rear main (bummer..I'll need a new flywheel..) bored .060 over.
stock pistons/rods
Comp Cams K12-238-2 flat tappet cam kit
Comp Cams roller rockers
Pro Topline heads 1.94/1.50 64cc chamber heads 7/16" studs
Distributor, carb (unknown, but I think Ed. performer)
+ most stuff needed to assemble, but no intake.

Should be a bit on the scary side for me, but I'll learn to control it....
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: VileZambonie on October 14, 2018, 06:35:21 PM
Nothing scary about that although a .060 350 means it's seen its life of agony and has either been seasoned well or is a toaster. A .060 over block cannot have stock pistons. If that thing is falling into your lap for dirt cheap and you've seen and heard it run, fine otherwise you may want to find another foundation to build upon.
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 22, 2018, 08:44:48 AM
OK, The purchase has been made.
Block casting # 10243880
It is an 880 block.typically shown to be a roller block.
The engine came out of a '93 GMC 1500, but most sites list this block as
being used from 95 to 2000, but other sites sat from 87 to ???
Date code A307 so, 1997 ?? 1987 ??
Most say either L31 Vortec or ZZ4 crate motor.
I have seen it listed as being used in a few 95 trucks w/TBI.
My motor has TBI and swirl port heads.
Unsure if 2 bolt or 4 as of yet, and do not yet know if roller cam.

The mechanical fuel pump mounting site has a plate w/4 attaching bolts,
so here's hoping it is mechanical fuel pump ready.

For now, I have to get it out of the back of my truck, pressure wash and put on the stand.
Then the fun will commence.............
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on October 23, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
Discuss "circular logic."
Title: Re: Which 350?
Post by: Ronno6 on October 24, 2018, 03:41:35 PM
Circular logic pertains to a progression in logical steps which , at some point, returns you to the original point:
1. Upgrade the 305 buy means of cam,heads,intake,carb,headers and exhaust.
(Everything except the heads would be usable on a future 350.)
2.Have machine work dore on 305 block, but then you need new pistins,rings and bearings.
3.With expense now climbing, don't waste $$$ on the 305; move up to 350
4.Machine work, pistons,rings,bearings,cam,heads,etc.etc...........+cost of 350 engine now getting too expensive
5.Just upgrade 305 as per #1.
That is circular logic in a nutshell.
(Actually there are many more intermediate steps, but I get tired of typing.....)