Author Topic: Let's play "guess that wire!!"  (Read 32538 times)

Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »
I removed my vapor canister completely.  The manual will have the line diagram for it also.  I believe there were 5 lines running to it at one time.  Without mine in front of me I can't remember.  Two each on those diaphragm pieces and one on the passenger side. It appears you had most of them in your hand.  Trace those down and remove them, if you want to get rid of it.  Plug any vacuum ports, though.  There is also one that connects from a steel line.  That steel line is bolted to the driver's side frame rail beside the brake switch.  I believe this runs all the way back to the fuel tank(s) and is the vent. 

My plan was to remove the steel line, but it seems to be stuck to the feed and return lines.  Instead, I will probably run a short piece of hose from the tank to a vent.  The rearend vent is attached to the underside of the bed.  I will use a similar or same vent and run the piece inside driver's side frame rail along side the rear light wires.

I downloaded all my pictures to my work computer and can not seem to down size them to show you.  I will try to take more with my phone and post them.

Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2013, 02:36:55 PM »
Something else to think about, which I am still wondering about is that old vehicle fuel smell.  Some had the smell due to the fuel tank being behind the seat.  Some had it because of a rich running carb.  I believe some also had it because the vapor canister was not hooked up or hooked up properly.  I could be wrong, but I think that is the purpose of the vapor canister.  It is like a pollution controller for fuel vapor.  I am saving mine just in case that "old vehicle fuel smell" is too much.  It never bothered me, but my wife has always complained about it, even back when we were in High School.

Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2013, 02:45:20 PM »
What Capt said about the manuals is correct.  The only reason I sent you that link, is I am not real good with computers and forums.  When I find something that makes sense to me, I have a hard time using other places.

Also, if you still have a 700R4, I believe the vacuum switch by the brake booster better have a vacuum line and electrical plug hooked to it.  Otherwise, I don't think the converter will lock up.  I haven't really traced down the true job of that switch, but the electrical plug will travel down inside of the trans and control lockup.  The manual has a picture of how it does that also, though. 

I am going to print mine out today.  It's gonna take awhile but I like looking a paper copies.

Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2013, 08:58:16 PM »
Here are some pics that might help.
This shows the end of the steel line that is fuel tank vent.

Here is the 700s vacuum switch

Here is the ESC grommet hole. It is a pretty big hole to fill


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Offline Cory

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2013, 09:29:27 PM »
Yup that's the vacuum switch I was thinking was for the converter. Those pictures help out a lot nlauffer.  Of course the vacuum line on the switch is cut, and the plug on the back of it is missing, so I'm going to have to figure out what wires were supposed to go to that. I actually spent the whole day today removing the engine and tranny to replace some seals and clean everything up...yes I removed the engine to clean it, don't judge me. But you won't believe this. I thought we had all the mystery wires figured out until I was unhooking and labeling everything and found a stupid amount of additional mystery plugs/wires. The saga continues. There are literally 3 or 4 plugs running down to the transmission just dangling there that we're hidden under the firewall, one of which is that red plug that I saw somewhere on here but can't remember what it ended up being for. Looking at the transmission once it is out, I noticed I only have one connector on it for a plug, which I am assuming would be for the wires coming off of that vacuum switch you show in your picture.  But what the heck do the other 3 go to??!! Ahhhh this is aggravating. Among the aforementioned plugs are a few other wires going to nothing AND a larger vacuum hose with wires in the same loom coming from the cab through the firewall?? It's a larger vacuum hose tied together with 3 or 4 wires going to a plug. I'm thinking something for the cruise control?? I will have to take more pictures of all this stuff tomorrow to give you a better idea. It's just ridiculous. I'm all for a quick fix but I'd never just leave junk dangling around like this.

You pretty much cleared up any confusion about the vapor canister for me. You're exactly right nlauffer, 5 lines coming from it. Pretty much the only one I'd have to deal with is that vent line coming from the tank. I'm thinking about removing the whole line and just adding a short line (a few inches long) and adding a vent on the end? Or could I just plug it at the fuel sender and add a vented gas cap? That'd be awesome if I could just do that but anybody have any insight on that.

Anyway I guess I'll take some pictures of this new stuff and we'll move on to round two...

Nlauffer, thank you for the pictures and taking the time to help me. You've been a huge asset to have.

Offline rich weyand

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2013, 11:39:34 PM »
You pretty much cleared up any confusion about the vapor canister for me. You're exactly right nlauffer, 5 lines coming from it. Pretty much the only one I'd have to deal with is that vent line coming from the tank. I'm thinking about removing the whole line and just adding a short line (a few inches long) and adding a vent on the end? Or could I just plug it at the fuel sender and add a vented gas cap? That'd be awesome if I could just do that but anybody have any insight on that.

That's apparently what they did on my 1978 before I got it.  No vacuum canister on mine, but the fuel caps have to be vented.  1/16" drill through the cap is all you need.  That's what I did when I replaced the old single tank with two new ones.
Rich

"Working Girl": 1978 K-10 RCSB 350/TH350/NP203 +2/+3 Tuff Country lift

Offline Captkaos

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2013, 07:55:01 AM »
That red plug typically goes to the lockup switch.
The one with the large vacuum hose is the cruise control wiring...
Should look simular to this:

http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12120.msg201240#msg201240


Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2013, 08:29:53 AM »
Is that the complete cruise control harness?  Mine is gone from firewall out, but is left behind under the dash.  I was digging around under the dash the other day and was noticing how many loose wires there are under there.  Now this post has me thinking about those also.  I was just going to clean up the engine bay like Cory while my engine and trans are out, but now....

Where does that black box mount?  I don't remember seeing it under the dash.

Cory, Do you have dual tanks?  If I remember right some of that wiring you are talking about is fuel tank wiring.  I have the same unhooked wires on mine.  I just haven't looked into which ones to pull yet.  Unfortunately, those wires are just out of sight in my pictures, by only about an inch or so. 

Offline Captkaos

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2013, 01:10:20 PM »
Yes that is all of it plus the fiber optic wire.
The box mounts at the back of the firewall near the gas pedal.

If the gas gauge is working, none of those would be going to a gas tank.  There is only a sender and a ground going to them.

Offline nlauffer

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2013, 02:38:08 PM »
Correct.  What I was referring to is that I thought the fuel sender wire and switching wires run down the same place as those unhooked connectors.  Driver's frame rail.

Offline Cory

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 06:37:34 PM »
I don't have dual tanks and I'm pretty sure it never did because I don't have a switch on the dash, or any noticeable wires under there that looked like they may have been for a switch. The only tank I have is mounted right behind the drivers door under the bed.

I suppose I can remove that whole cruise control harness as mine is inop. And God knows what components I'm missing out of that whole system. I'll save the harness though just in case, because it might bug me later on not having an option that the truck originally came with.

I still haven't had a chance to take pictures of all the new mystery wires I have, mainly because I need to check the schematic again to see if I can figure them all out before I waste any more of y'alls time, or somebody wonders if I have even looked at a schematic. Also I've been busy trying to degrease the motor since it's now laying in my garage. Once I take a look at the schematics again, if I still can't figure it out, I'll post some pictures and we'll go from there. I'll try for tomorrow. Thanks again and sorry for the delay.

Offline Cory

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 08:58:23 PM »
Time to bring this back to life.....Sorry it took me so long to get these pictures, but with the Holidays and me trying to figure out most of this stuff on my own, its been a slow process. The good news is, I figured out 80% of these new "mystery wires" by using the schematic that Captkaos and nlauffer sent me.

To give an update on all my original questons:

Picture #1 is definitely the temp. sender wire, like you guys all said.
#2.  The thinner green wire is part of the ac circuit and goes to the fast idle relay. Do I still need this wire? That relay is long gone, and the ac compressor has its own ground now. Also the throttle kicker solenoid is spliced directly into the green/white wire, looks like number 959. So can I get rid of the wire in picture 2 if it just goes to the fast idle relay?
#3. That black/gray wire actually goes to the carb fuel solenoid temperature switch. I finally found that on the schematic. I was able to get rid of this.
#4. This plug with what looked like tan/black, is actually pink/black, and the plug goes to the carb accelerator pump fuel solenoid. Again I got rid of this.
#5. Definitely the knock sensor like you said. I thought it was dark green but is actually blue on the schematic. Got rid of it.
#6. Obviously the ESC plug to the distributor like you said. Used a thread on here and got rid of that entire harness along with the ESC controller.
#7. Is the tip-in vacuum switch for the ESC so I was able to get rid of that as well with the rest of the ESC harness.
#8. Clearly vacuum canister. I did however remove it and the lines going to nothing. I still have to add a vent to the vent line going to the fuel tank.

Huge boost of confidence for me to get all of those resolved -and sorted through. Thank you all for the help!! I do have a few more questions, however....but I am almost there.

Here are pictures of the three plugs and a mess of wires going to each that I had talked about in an earlier reply:
In the first picture, that white/tanish looking plug is actually the one for the torque converter lockup. That goes go my only electrical plug on my 700 r4 transmission.
The second picture shows a circular two-pronged plug and the third picture is that red plug I was talking about. I don't know which one does, but on the schematic one of these plugs runs to the EGR bleed solenoid. I'm assuming that was removed a long time ago.
All three of these plugs have wires going to each other, and they all turn into the 3 total wires in the 4th picture (2 light green and 1 light blue).
From there, they run into a plug that cant go anywhere except that vacuum switch by the brake booster that we established was the vacuum switch for the torque lockup. This is picture #5, but I have to make a second post since I can only post 4 pictures at a time.
After that plug in picture #5, they turn into 2 wires, one light green, the other light blue, and they run into a plug in picture number 6.
After that plug in #6, the light green wire goes to that orange plug in the same picture. On the schematic, it says this is "Test (orange)"??? Is this just some kind of test lead that goes to nothing? Or does anybody know where it goes to? Then the light blue wire goes into the firewall right by the main harness plug in picture number 7, and goes up the inside of the firewall and I lose it. By looking at the schematic it says the light blue wire runs to the brake switch. I'm assuming this is so when your foot hits the brake, this wire will disengage the lockup?

My question with this is, does anybody know for sure what the round plug and red plug go to? And which one goes to the EGR bleed solenoid? Not that it really matters because mine is gone.

I need converter lockup, and I was planning on hooking the original harness up and replacing that vacuum switch with a new one, but after realizing there are two other plugs connected to the same harness, and that green wire is going to nothing, would it be easier to just remove this whole harness and buy a lockup kit from somewhere like jegs or wherever??  And IF it would be better to just buy an aftermarket lockup kit, is there anyone out there with recommendations? Which one would you recommend? Or stay away from? There seems to be a lot. I found one from Monster Transmissions that had a "how to video" and all that, that seemed like a great kit, but my other question is, most of these kits say to screw the 4th gear switch into the side of the 700r4 in the 4th gear plug, but looking at my 700r4 I have no such port or plug on the side of the tranny. How could this be and what other options do I have for this switch, or would I have to look into a different designed lockup kit?

Any help on a lockup kit, or if I can still use the original lockup harness while figuring out the other two plugs would be awesome.

Thanks again and sorry for another long post!!!

Offline Cory

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2013, 09:02:04 PM »
Here's the last 3 pictures:

Offline Captkaos

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2013, 09:57:10 AM »
The #2 if so described would increase the idle back to normal when the AC came on.

Picture one from what I can see is part of your lockup, some of it is going to interface with the ESC from what I remember.
Picture two appears to be the oil pressure sensor?
Picture three of the red connector should go to the vacuum switch for lockup, is should be able to plug into the other vacuum switch.
Picture four, unlock switch to the brake switch
Picture five, unlock switch...
Picture six. Test lead for unlocking the converter?
Picture seven unlock switch to the brake switch

Offline Boone83K10

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Re: Let's play "guess that wire!!"
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 10:51:20 AM »
You have the exact same setup as my truck except mine is K10 and you are C10

Pic 1 is the EGR bleed version (3 wires) 700r4 trans connector.
Pic 2 is the EGR bleed solenoid connector, you must either jump the two female opening together (how PO did mine) or cut it out and solder the wires together for lockup to occur (my project in the spring).
Pic 3 is not found on my truck. It has a yellow wire and dark green wire. No where in the trans schematic does it show this connection or even a DK GRN wire.
Pic 4 is is the wiring coming up to the low vacuum switch.
Pic 5 is the low vacuum switch connector, plug it into the TCC switch in the picture with the vacuum hose on the other end.
Pic 6 shows the second connector in the wiring diagram. The LT GRN wire is from the low vacuum switch. The LT BLU wire is from a factory splice that came from the EGR bleed solenoid and the trans connector. It also shows the orange diagnostic torque converter lockup connector. this should be inside the cab. The blue wire leads to the brake switch connector inside.
Pic 7 is the blue wire going into the cab that leads to the brake switch connector, i.e. the brake plunger. The other wire coming from the brake switch connector should be a BRN/WHT wire going to the fuse box.

I attached the wiring diagram for your trans wiring setup.
1966 Mercury Comet - Built 429 (First Car/Show Car)
1983 Chevrolet K10 - Built 350 (Winter Toy)
1992 Chevrolet Lumina Euro (Sold @ 265,000 miles)
2003 Ford Escape 4x4 - Mac Perf. Intake/Exhaust (Wifes' DD)
2007 Mercury Milan - Steeda Tuned (Summer Toy)