Squeaky Drum Brakes & A Terrible Mechanic.

[Spool]

BD, I accidentally switched 2 and 3, and bled the brakes before adjusting the shoes. Is this okay?

As far as adjusting the shoes. I’ve adjusted it so until I can just hear it drag ever so slightly at one point in the rotation and leave it at that.

Correct?


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[Spool]

Lock rings locked.


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[bd]

BD, I accidentally switched 2 and 3, and bled the brakes before adjusting the shoes. Is this okay?

As far as adjusting the shoes. I’ve adjusted it so until I can just hear it drag ever so slightly at one point in the rotation and leave it at that.

Correct?

Yes, to both questions.

[Spool]

Excellent.
Just cleaned everything up.


With that confirmation. I’m gonna tighten it up, add some diff fluid, lower her down and torque it up.

Take it in reverse two three times to ‘click’ the adjuster and then take it for a small drive on the secondary roads to see how it feels.

If I feels good. I’ll take it on the secondary roads.

If all goes well, tomorrow I’ll do the swap the differential oil and gasket along with flushing that bad brake fluid out of the front brakes.

Nice. Nice. Nice.
BD... thank you! You’ve made my learning curve less of a parabolic tangent into a more comfortable surf.


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[Spool]

Currently jiggling thee axel tubes to fit. Is there a trick?
They’re about 6 inches from being flush.

{Ignore this. I ask too many questions sometimes.}


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[Spool]

Alrighty...

So, started the truck and the brake pedal goes straight to the floor when the engine is on.

With that, I kept it in the driveway, but I need to push the pedal all the way do in order to stop.

Also, coming out of park into reverse and shifting into drive causes a quick jerk forwards or backwards.

Any ideas?


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[bd]

Shoe adjustment and/or air in the hydraulic system and possibly a tripped pressure differential valve.  Is the pedal firm or spongy?  Any evidence of fluid leaks around the wheel cylinders?

[Spool]

No leaking at the wheel cylinders.
Reservoirs are full.

I suppose I bled the brakes wrong?

I didn’t break my master cylinder with my trying to bleed my brakes for hours with the engine off did I?

The brake pedal is very loose, pretty much goes to the floor with hardly any resistance with the engine off.

If I turn the engine on, pedal goes straight to the floor.

If I turn the engine back off. I need to pump the brake two\three times before it becomes firm again.


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[bd]

If the brakes become firm with pumping, you probably just need to adjust the shoes.

[Spool]

Okay.
In the morning, I’ll lift her back up, and adjust the shoes further out.

So, having the pedal go to the floor with the engine on, could really just be a result of the shoes being too far from the drum?

The brake pedal barely gets stiffer if I continue to to pump.

Let me ask this though, just to try and rule out the worse case scenario- I didn’t harm my master cylinder or vacuum by depressing the brake so many times with the car off did I?

Strange the shifting of R/N/D is so jarring as well.


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[Spool]

Here’s a thought- this guy had a similar problem. So he began bleeding the brakes with the engine on and found there was plenty more air in the system.

He then found that the wheel cylinder itself was pulling air in.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/tYYMoZGEzCc

Now, when I pushed my pistons into the wheel cylinder, I used quite a bit of force with my thumb to get it snug. Then pushed the the other side in and found the other side would pop out. So I lined them and at the same time, squeezed them hard in place. I could feel the wheel cylinder mechanism move when I did this.
In fact, when I installed the drivers side wheel cylinder, it wouldn’t fit at first, I had to push on the boots to get the inside mechanism to retract to be able to fit the wheel cylinder in place.

Any thoughts?


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[Spool]

After watching this video on bleeding brakes, I’m starting to think I did it incorrectly:

https://youtu.be/ag-Q_lP0dOk

In the video, he built the same apparatus with a clear tube and plastic bottle. Yet, he didn’t have any trouble getting the brake fluid to clear the height of the tube and proceed into the bottle. He also left the bleeder valve open and just continued to pump the brake. I didn’t do this.

I depressed the brake and held it with wood leveraged from the cab bench. Opened the valve. Closed the valve. And let off the brake. I continued to do this but could not get the brake fluid to clear the entire hose. I might have had the bleeder open too much-(allowing air back into the wheel cylinder.)

Today, I was more careful of not allowing air back into the wheel cylinder and only loosened the bleeder valve a half turn. But I did away with the bottle apparatus- and just suspended the clear tube vertically with an open end. Proceeded with the same order of operations as above and once all the air bubbles rose to the surface and I had a solid 6 inches of just brake fluid in the tube, I called it a day.

Any thoughts on this?
Perhaps I should do it exactly as done in this video. (I’ll need to walk somewhere and grab more brake fluid though.)

In the morning, I’m gonna try your first approach BD, and adjust the shoes further out. I’m still confused why the brakes sink with the engine on though.


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[bd]

With the engine running the brakes have an added variable of power assist.  Is it a vacuum or hydraulic booster? 

You haven't damaged anything.  Don't let your imagination run wild with mystery.  Keep a level head.

Check the brake adjustment:  With the rear wheels off the ground, tighten the adjuster for one drum until you cannot rotate that wheel using both hands.  Back the star wheel off in the opposite direction 20 - 25 "clicks."  Recheck that wheel for rotation with a light brake drag.  Repeat on the opposite side. 

Pressure bleeding really works best with two people because there is better control over the fluid.

As an alternative, you can also try gravity bleeding.  Verify that the master cylinder (m/c) is full of fluid.  Top it off as needed but leave the m/c cover loose.  Slip a drain tube over the right rear wheel cylinder bleed valve and anchor the free end of the tube in a large empty container.  Open the bleed valve and let gravity draw fluid from the tube directly into the pan.  Always keep the m/c at least half full, never letting it run dry!  When totally clear, bubble free brake fluid discharges from the hose (allowing, perhaps, 20 or so minutes), close the bleed valve.  Move to the left rear wheel cylinder and repeat the process.  Be certain to never let the m/c run dry or you will have to start over.  Diligence and patience are crucial when gravity bleeding.

[Spool]

I believe my power assist is vacuum as there's a hose running back/beneath the carb. (Pic attached.)

Thanks for describing another approach to adjusting the shoes.
I'm hoping my reverse action this afternoon in the truck 'set' the adjustment lever.
Otherwise, I'm gonna have to roughly 'count' what I can see on the star wheel through the window of what would be 20-25 turns. If I look at a photo I have of the star adjuster, I count 15 teeth on half of it. So, I could turn the star adjuster 3/4 of the way when backing off.

Regarding bleeding the brakes, did you happen to watch the video I shared? It's done by 1Aauto and runs five minutes. It's very similar to the gravity method you just described, but the tube runs into a different source of brake fluid and they continually pump the brakes with the valve open. Curious to know your thought on that - (or just tell me, 'I don't wanna watch your video!') Either way, I gotta pick up another liter of brake fluid in the morning.

[JohnnyPopper]

Running a count of clicks on the star adjuster is a baseline.

Turn it till it stops the drum from turning, then back it off till you have a little drag.

Over.