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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => LT/LS Swaps => Topic started by: jobobcat18 on April 29, 2018, 02:30:28 AM
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This is my first post and I'm new forums in general. I also tried to post 4 times in tapatalk and just kept getting errors. So if there are numerous posts by my I apologize. I just bought a 2016 van l96 6.0 and 6l90 with the e78 ecm and harness and everything I need running gear wise (I'm not 100% sure what all I need) for 3600 with 3600 miles. To bolt the transmission up to my np208, I'm going to cut the output shaft down and send it off to be cut down and resplined to a 32 spline input for the 208 (I've read how 4 low may not work but I dont use it). Also I have to get the adapter for it. I also plan on keeping my dual tank setup. This is the first ls swap that any of us swapping it have ever done. Any tips would sure be appreciated. And does anyone know how to make the oil pan fit above the front crossmember on a 4x4? Or what oil pan to get? Thanks!
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I will also be updating this post and once finished I will post a full part list for everything I used and done to make everything work.
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Welcome.
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Welcome.
Thanks rapid!
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Yea man welcome!
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Yea man welcome!
Thanks buddy!
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You might check out this thread with a 6.0 LS swap:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=34079.0 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=34079.0)
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You might check out this thread with a 6.0 LS swap:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=34079.0 (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=34079.0)
Will do. Thanks!
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Does anyone know anything about creating a standalone harness for an e78 ecm?
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I did harness work for mine but it was a 2002 model
And if i had it to do over again I would have some one else do the harness work
You’re going to have to have someone redo the software on the computer anyway
Have them do the harness too
There are cheaper places but I used “Team208motorsports “
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I did harness work for mine but it was a 2002 model
And if i had it to do over again I would have some one else do the harness work
You’re going to have to have someone redo the software on the computer anyway
Have them do the harness too
There are cheaper places but I used “Team208motorsports “
I gotcha. I would do that but the budget doesnt allow for it. Do you know how to run the ac? Mine is already r134 converted. But the wiring that needs to be done in order for the computer to increase the idle.
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I did harness work for mine but it was a 2002 model
And if i had it to do over again I would have some one else do the harness work
You’re going to have to have someone redo the software on the computer anyway
Have them do the harness too
There are cheaper places but I used “Team208motorsports “
I gotcha. I would do that but the budget doesnt allow for it. Do you know how to run the ac? Mine is already r134 converted. But the wiring that needs to be done in order for the computer to increase the idle.
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Not sure about the ac idle up
But there is a wire that signals the computer that the ac is on
Not a big deal without it
We don’t have it hooked up and haven’t noticed
It’s a V8 , if it was a four banger you’d need the idle up
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I did harness work for mine but it was a 2002 model
And if i had it to do over again I would have some one else do the harness work
You’re going to have to have someone redo the software on the computer anyway
Have them do the harness too
There are cheaper places but I used “Team208motorsports “
I gotcha. I would do that but the budget doesnt allow for it. Do you know how to run the ac? Mine is already r134 converted. But the wiring that needs to be done in order for the computer to increase the idle.
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Not sure about the ac idle up
But there is a wire that signals the computer that the ac is on
Not a big deal without it
We don’t have it hooked up and haven’t noticed
It’s a V8 , if it was a four banger you’d need the idle up
That is a good point. I appreciate it.
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I understand the pollak high psi selector valve (65 psi) can be used to run the dual tank setup. However, can this valve handle a 340 lph pump?
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What size is the pump outlet? Probably -6 AN, which is 3/8". The Pollack valve has 3/8" Feed. Most sites will tell you that -6 AN is capable of supporting up to 500 hp.
Your 340 lph pump only flows 340 lph at freeflow (0 psi). It doesn't flow that at 60 psi. Plus your injectors will only flow so much.
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What size is the pump outlet? Probably -6 AN, which is 3/8". The Pollack valve has 3/8" Feed. Most sites will tell you that -6 AN is capable of supporting up to 500 hp.
Your 340 lph pump only flows 340 lph at freeflow (0 psi). It doesn't flow that at 60 psi. Plus your injectors will only flow so much.
I'm new to fuel systems so please excuse if what I say is incorrect. My goal is to push the engine to about 510-520 hp. Which i believe it can be done with a tune, electric fans, headers, cai, texas speed vvt stage 1 cam, and new injectors possibly. I'm wanting to keep the dual tank so I was looking at the Pollack valve. I have read that the 255 lph pump wouldn't supply enough for over 500. So I was thinking about a 340 lph pump. Do you think my goals here are achievable with the valve or should I go single tank?
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Well...the 2016 Chevrolet Express Van with the Gen IV 6.0 L96 made 342 HP @ 5,400 RPM SAE & 373 lb.-ft of torque @ 4,400 RPM SAE. It has I think 50 lb/hr flow rated injectors at 58 psi. That high flow of injectors is for the E85 of the flex fuel programming. So...the injectors can support a lot of HP, but what is realistic in your vehicle? You say you think you can make 510-520 HP?
Well...naturally aspirated engines are most efficient in the 0.4 to 0.5 BSFC. That is 0.4 to 0.5 lb/hp/hr. If you are making 520 HP then at 0.4 BSFC you need 208 lbs of gasoline. 208 lb of gasoline divided by 8 injectors is 26 lb/hr. With an injector duty cycle of 80% that equals 32.5 lb/hr injector rating. At 0.5 BSFC that is a 40.6 lb/hr injector.
Gasoline density is about 6.073 lb/gal, so you need somewhere between 34 and 43 gallons/hr to support 520 HP. That equates to between 129 to 163 lph, so I don't see where you would need the 340 lph pump, but you have to look at the volume provided at pressure. Pumps are rated at free flow, so you need to look at the flow curve. A typical Walbro 255 pump flows about 189 lph at 60 psi and 12 Vdc. That same pump flows about 227 lph at 60 psi and 13.5 Vdc.
Now, forced induction is less efficient than naturally aspirated. The BSFC can be up to around 0.75. That means to make the same 520 HP in an engine that is turbo'ed or supercharged, you would need 390 lbs of gasoline!
My guess is that you are going to be fine with the 3/8" fuel line. That is the size of the feeds on the Pollack valve.
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Nice write up my friend. The 510-520 rating I'm estimating is for sure flywheel power. I know the van engine is rated less than the truck's 360. However I could not find a mechanical difference between the engines and I also seen where a boxed tune would give the truck l96 40 hp. That's where I got the number from. This is my first rodeo for anything like this, gotta start somewhere I suppose.
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Another question. Would it be better to run the filter/regulator before or after the valve? I dont mind buying 2 of them if it would be a better option.
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Run it after the valve.
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Run it after the valve.
Gotcha. I appreciate the help on that.
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I'm currently reworking my harness and I have ran into a snag. The gmlan wire from the ecm goes to the instrument cluster connector head where the transmission wires go to the chassis connector head. These seem to all go into one thing which goes into the obd 2 port, I am not 100% sure on this. Does anyone know if you could just cut the wires off the head connectors and solder the engine and transmission gmlan wires together and run it to the obd 2 port?
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Also the tcc wiring to disengage the torque converter. Is that just the cruise/tcc wire that should beveired into a brake switch?
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Also the tcc wiring to disengage the torque converter. Is that just the cruise/tcc wire that should beveired into a brake switch?
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Be wired*
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Update:
So far the harness has been reworked as good as I know. The factory fuse block will be reused from the van. I am running with the aeromotive 340 lph @ 40 psi fuel pumps with aem's wiring kit, they will give me room to grow just incase. Doug thorley tri y headers 1 7/8 tubes. Cold case 87 truck radiator (double pass 1.25" tubes) with fans and shroud from jegs (no external transmission cooler for now). Dirty dingo adjustable motor mounts and ac compressor relocation bracket will be used. Pollack 3 port high psi selector valve will be used after 2 regulator filter combos, one for each tank. I still have more parts to get like fuel lines and fittings and such. But it's starting to come together.
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Correction, I'll run the aeromotive 340s later. Just going to stick with a walbro 255 until I put the l99 vvt cam from tsp in it.
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Hey...I was looking at this thread today...hadn't read it in a while. I don't know why I missed it for so long...anyways...I noticed that I said to run the filter regulator after the valve?! I don't know why I would say that. Maybe I was thinking of the start being the tanks and flowing to the engine. Anyways...I confused myself. The filter regulator should be between the valve and the engine. I noticed that you said you would be running two filter regulators. I don't see why you would need to do that!
Both tanks feed into the valve. Both return lines from the valve go back to the tank. On the outlet side of the valve, that feeds into the filter regulator.
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Here is a good place for wiring harness information: http://lt1swap.com/geniv_harness.htm
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The two filter regulators is just one for each tank going into the valve. Since the filter regulator has a built in return I wont need to run the return line in the valve because of this and I'd have to run the filter regulator between the valve and the engine instead of the regulator being between the valve and the tank
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I'd rather have the regulator between the valve and tank anyways, that way I dont have to worry about too much psi being pushed to the valve and busting it. 65 psi limit on the valve and 58 coming out of the regulator is as close as I want to get.
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I did look at that website. Only problem. I have is that my e78 ecm and the e38 ecm have quite a few differences. But I think I got it, had to use gmupfitter.com to get my harness pinout diagram and just kinda winged it from there
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Usually the psi rating is a safe working pressure...at 65 psi it isn't going to burst! I will let you know how mine works as that is how I plumbed mine.
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Usually the psi rating is a safe working pressure...at 65 psi it isn't going to burst! I will let you know how mine works as that is how I plumbed mine.
Sounds good
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It has been a while since I have been on here but I like the swP idea and progress so far. I noticed you plan on keeping the VVT and I really intrested in seeing how it works out! Do your engine have Displacement On Demand? When. You get to the point of flashing the ECM/PCM I highly recommend Brendan at lt1swap.com he is diligent and will work with you if there are any problems. You may try asking him about the wiring differences with your computer. If you are still working on the harness I highly recommend writing down the numbers for each color connection the pull each pin and work them out after all are unplugged. Have you found an adapter for the np208?
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I've talked to Brendan, he is still working on understanding my ecm as it's different than the e38. Also I did find an adapter, 15724745, I'll take some pictures when I go back home and upload them. I bought a 32 spline input to go into my np208, then I'll send off my output shaft in the transmission and get them to match it to my 32 spline input. The downfall is I'm not going to have 4 low working. However with 4.10 gears and the monster first in the 6l90, I dont care nor do I ever use it now. I also dont have to worry about redoing my speedometer as the transmission communicates with the ecm with an output shaft speed sensor. So the mechanical speed signal it is! In addition, the ly6 and l96 have vvt but no displacement on demand. I've just seen alot of benefits from the vvt and feel like that's the best way to go to keep it a friendly daily driver and have some nice power.
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I have also finished my harness. I'm reusing the fuse box from the van (which took a hot minute to figure out). There are a few extra relays I'll have to add to make it work but it shouldn't be an issue.
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After talking to texas speed and asking them about a vvt cam swap in the future, they recommended that I delete the vvt in order to save a tuning headache from the swap and a vvt cam. So it looks like I'm going that route and installing a texas speed ls3 stage 1 225/236 .629/.615 112 lsa. The 6l90, from my research, has a higher factory stall speed (2200-2300) than the 6l80 (1700-1800). So it should run quite well. Also down the line I'll be installing a built dana 60 in the rear and do a 6 lug conversion on it to fit my current wheels. The built dana 60 is a better option to me than a 14 bolt because it's free minus me removing it from the truck it's in.
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Just got my 2 treperformance 340 lph pumps in. Now to figure out my fuel pump wiring to handle these pumps. Question, how would it be to run a 10 gauge wire from the battery or alternator (which was recommended by tre and racetronix) and choke it down to a 14 gauge wire going into the bulkhead (which is the part they recommended) and going from the bulkhead using 14 gauge wire to the pump. If they say to use 10 and choke it to 14, wouldn't that be too much of a choke down?
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Ender up buying a straight through adapter from summit that can handle 12 gauge wire. So ill have 10 gauge wire coming from the battery to a connector and it will choke down to a 12 gauge. The pump only pulls 15 amps and the 12 gauge can handle more than that.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/4c2ab5a3d8a1387364b55be7978fbedc.jpg)
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Such a short section of 14-awg could easily handle that 15 amps.
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You arent wrong. Funny thing is, the guys that sent me the pump kit sent me 18 gauge wire with the kit. They kept saying it was 14 but it was nothing even close to a 14. So I just said screw it and replaced it with a 12
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I was just wondering about why they kept saying 14.
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Does anyone know how to hookup the brake booster vacuum line and hvac line on a ls truck intake to my 87? I read about removing the plug on the back of the intake and buying an acdelco fitting thing but are the sizes between the barb and my booster vacuum line the same? Also where do I run the hvac vacuum line?
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There is a quick-connect fitting on the back, driver's side of the intake plenum. If the donor vehicle didn't have vacuum assist, then there is just a plug in there. You depress the ring around the fitting...I think they are all RED, and pull the plug out. There is a vacuum fitting that goes in there that your booster line will fit to.
For the HVAC fitting, I used the port on the passenger's side, about mid-way on the intake plenum. It is molded shut by default usually, but you can bust off the tab on the end of the port to open it up.
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Sounds good. Thanks man.
So on my ecm and tcm gmlan wires, since my ecm is an e78 it does not go through the TCM. On the gmlan wires where the used to merge on the van, would it hurt to solder the wires together? As in the ecm black and tan wire to the tcm black and tan wire soldered together. And the ecm tan to the TCM tan?
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That I don't know, sorry!
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All good. Thanks bud
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how would it be to run a 10 gauge wire from the battery or alternator (which was recommended by tre and racetronix) and choke it down to a 14 gauge wire going into the bulkhead
I used Racetronix Sy/Ty Hotwire kit and told them the connectors to match my R10 so it just plugged in. On the Fuel sending side I paired the main wire to the 2 bulk wires running to the pump. Been this way since March of 2014.
This is a link to my truck Racetronix post:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12120.msg230762#msg230762
This is the pump with the 2 14g wires merged
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/R10drvr_252.jpg)
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how would it be to run a 10 gauge wire from the battery or alternator (which was recommended by tre and racetronix) and choke it down to a 14 gauge wire going into the bulkhead
I used Racetronix Sy/Ty Hotwire kit and told them the connectors to match my R10 so it just plugged in. On the Fuel sending side I paired the main wire to the 2 bulk wires running to the pump. Been this way since March of 2014.
This is a link to my truck Racetronix post:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12120.msg230762#msg230762
This is the pump with the 2 14g wires merged
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/R10drvr_252.jpg)
Thanks bud! I ended up just modifying my sending unit and ran a straight through wire sealer thing with 12 gauge wire. 26 bucks for the unit. We made our own harness and such.
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So I my fuel pumps will be wired to the back of my alternator. The factory fuse box (from the van) and the electric fans will be wired to my battery. And ideas on how to add more connections to a side post battery?
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What are yall running for a cold air intake on out trucks with the ls?
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Just wrapped up my swap and some key things I learned.
1. If your donor engine comes with an e78 ecm (which is found with l96 6.0's and 6l90e transmissions) do not use it. Even though it comes with it and everything. Trash it and get an e38 and repin it with a gen 5 camaro maf sensor or one similar. I used the e78 and there are more headaches associated with that ecm it's unreal. Especially if you decide to cam it like I did.
2. Treperformance fuel pumps are garbage. Ordered 2 of them. 1 didnt even work when I got it and the other went out after 6 months at the tuning shop which required for me to have to buy another one and pay them to install it. I'm now using a deustchwerks (I think that's how it's spelled) 300 fuel pump which flows more than any 340 fuel pump I've seen and pulls 15 amps or less!
3. If you're running a 2wd 6l90 and want to mate it up to a np208 transfer case you will need to pull out the output shaft from the transmission and get a 32 spline input shaft for the np208. (32 spline allows for alot more meat on the output shaft compared to the 27 spline (I think its 27)). Then send off the output shaft and input shaft to moser engineering and have the output shaft cut down and resplined. I dont remember the part number but there are adapters that mate the np208 to the 6l90e that are less than 100 bucks. They're factory pieces. I think they're similar to a turbo 400 adapter to a transfer case. Youll also need to plug the two holes found on the back of the transmission case. I used pipe fitting plugs (or something like that) and put them in it. Then just put the shafts in and you're done with a functional 6l90.
4. Dont cheap out on stuff. I mean take a deal when you can but dont do what I did and cheap out on a crappy fuel pump and have to pay for it later.
5. Instead of buying say a be cool radiator or one of those high dollar radiators. Find a local shop that builds them. I got a high quality aluminum double pass radiator with two 12 inch fans and shroud for 425 from the shop. A way better deal.
6. The mpg will go up more than likely. I went from a tbi 350 and 700r4 getting 12-13 mpg on the interstate. To a cammed 6.0 (about 520 horsepower at the crank) and 6l90 and got 17-18 mpg on the interstate. The truck has a 3" lift and 33x12.5 mud tires and is an 87 4x4. That number may sound hard to believe but it was hand calculated and I couldnt believe it myself until I seen it. I thought something was messed up with my gas gauge at first until I filled it back up.
7. If it's your first swap. You're going to learn an absolute ton! And its oh so worth it when it's done.
If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to help out!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190518/48ab785bc1d4ad47276a361fcab6bfea.jpg)
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So the truck started overheating when it was in the middle of the day hot outside in traffic. The big aluminum double pass radiator and 160 degree thermostat couldn't keep it cool. So I decided to look at the fans. They both worked but they were only 11" fans that came with the radiator from the local guy. Swapped those out for 2 12" extreme performance spal fans (rated at 1870 cfm) and all I can say is for 12" fans, you're going to be hard pressed to find any that flow more. The attached picture shows the size difference between the two.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/15afe86d7a07e0b3a53a69bb02ee159e.jpg)
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