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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => LT/LS Swaps => Topic started by: 79SierraGrande on November 25, 2015, 01:10:19 PM
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Hi all,
I'm building a 79' GMC Sierra Grande that's been in the family for 28 years. My original plan was to get an LS3 GM crate engine for it but my brother who is a mechanic recently installed a reman 6.0L in a customer's 2011 Chevy truck. So the shop owner where my brother works offered to sell me the old 6.0L they took out for $350 and I'm just wondering if any of you thought it was a good deal? It has 300k miles but everything is there except ECM, and accessories like alternator, starter, p/s pump etc. I'd probably want to buy a new water pump too if I bought it. My brother said all I should have to do is rebuild the heads and maybe put new bearings in the engine, which he would install for me no charge. I'd just have to buy the parts. So let me know what y'all think! Thanks!
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What does Jasper etc get for a rebuildable core? Half that and a little less is reasonable private party for a core without spun bearings.
If you want it to hang together you'll want to mic the crank and check other clearances. Slapping bearings in a worn out motor will not give you a long lasting engine.
Missing parts like accessory drives, intake, fuel system, ... could be an issue to source cheaply. It's likely not just the alternator and AC compressor. I'd bet the reman got the pulleys, idlers, tensioners, and various cast mounts. Those things add up quick especially if the junk guy knows you need em.
I'd price the missing parts first.
From orbit on my Android.
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I personally would buy this if it is a complete take out engine that included FEAD system, engine harness, and ecu. But the surely wouldn't treat it like a take out and just replace normal items without doing what Hatzie mentioned. Just slapping in new bearings and machining heads isn't safe unless you trust the person to do it right and take the appropriate steps if mains or rods are out of round. But I would honestly offer him $250 and see where it goes from there espe ially f they took off the alternator, water pump, power steering pump. Also you can tell him that the engine performance s useless with out Tue Drive by Wire pedal and control module. That may help you get it at a lower price. Some PCM's can take a Drive by Cable throttle body but researching the one with the engine would be a must if you wanted to go that way.
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What does Jasper etc get for a rebuildable core? Half that and a little less is reasonable private party for a core without spun bearings.
If you want it to hang together you'll want to mic the crank and check other clearances. Slapping bearings in a worn out motor will not give you a long lasting engine.
Missing parts like accessory drives, intake, fuel system, ... could be an issue to source cheaply. It's likely not just the alternator and AC compressor. I'd bet the reman got the pulleys, idlers, tensioners, and various cast mounts. Those things add up quick especially if the junk guy knows you need em.
I'd price the missing parts first.
From orbit on my Android.
Thanks, Hatzie.
I don't know who Jasper is but yes I would need to buy the pulleys, idlers, tensioners etc. But I would have to buy that even if I bought the new LS3 crate motor I was talking about. It doesn't come with that stuff either. Chevy and Holley both sell a kit that includes all of your pulleys, idlers, belt(s), alternator, p/s pump, a/c compressor for I think $1,100. Then I think the kit both sell with the ECM and drive-by-wire pedal is another $500. I would check clearances of course I just didn't write that because I was trying to make my original post short and not a novel. This motor does have the intake, injectors and some other stuff. I'll take a few pics and show you guys what it looks like. I could definitely try to offer him less but I don't know if he would take it. I know the place they go through to buy all their reman engines from is autodynamicengine.com out of Wyoming because we are in Montana so it's close and they are a really great company. Their core charge for this engine if you do not return the core is $350, so that's where the shop owner got the $350 price tag from.
I guess it's also worth mentioning I've never found a true take out engine that includes ECM, pedal, pulleys etc. etc. for less than $1,500. And on Ebay it's even worse. I do see a lot of people posting their take out engines they say they've gotten hella cheap but I've never been able to find a deal anywhere near that so it's looking more like a fish story in my experience.
I'll get back to the thread with some pics ASAP.
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I personally would buy this if it is a complete take out engine that included FEAD system, engine harness, and ecu. But the surely wouldn't treat it like a take out and just replace normal items without doing what Hatzie mentioned. Just slapping in new bearings and machining heads isn't safe unless you trust the person to do it right and take the appropriate steps if mains or rods are out of round. But I would honestly offer him $250 and see where it goes from there espe ially f they took off the alternator, water pump, power steering pump. Also you can tell him that the engine performance s useless with out Tue Drive by Wire pedal and control module. That may help you get it at a lower price. Some PCM's can take a Drive by Cable throttle body but researching the one with the engine would be a must if you wanted to go that way.
Thanks, Froto.
I'm going to try and get some pics here soon. Please see my reply to Hatzie. I think the shop owner just got the $350 price from their reman supplier because that's their charge if you do not return the core. So I could offer less but the shop owner probably wouldn't take it if he can just return the core and get his $350 back if I don't want to pay it.
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you also have to get a pcm and wire harness with all the plugs. most times in junk yards they will cut the wires on the pcm side for a quick removal. so finding a pcm and wires might be the hardest part
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Here are some images of the engine. I guess it does have the water pump and some other stuff still on it. The manifold is included but it's just tossed back on top there as it needed to be removed to pull the engine.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/6d49297493987593067c563df37ee8c5.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/6599aa5829c68910b8215e825f47331e.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/0ab94c9e7b4f78fe7d10b524c0cc0d6a.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/3f393102a34055360134ba799438af7b.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/4ea74a4d924f8369ec825f5cdd126e5f.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/6226bfaa054f4a61e0e3b7fd08734188.jpg)
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A few more.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/d939ef2dc4ab1615620ac668c367a294.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/3432e863d9f1cd813c20787d24fb0002.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/ce8da28464c7ce4777ccec359c34776e.jpg)
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I just spoke to my brother also when I was over there and he said this engine came out of either a 2011 or 2012 Chevy 2500 HD 4x4 truck. It also has the variable valve timing as opposed to the LS3 which is what I was originally planning to buy. Or still may.
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I'd do a sanity check before spending the money.
Price a salvaged complete running LS type engine with the harness and PCM.
Price this engine with all the stuff you need to make it go. Add the cost of a crank, pistons etc. You might need em.
Price the crate motor with all the parts you'll need to make it complete.
I'd bet this cheap motor is the most expensive of the possibilities.
From orbit on my Android.
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Hi all,
I'm building a 79' GMC Sierra Grande that's been in the family for 28 years.
In my opinion, if the truck has been in your family for 28 years, you have a piece of nostalgia there. Keep the factory power plant
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I'd do a sanity check before spending the money.
Price a salvaged complete running LS type engine with the harness and PCM.
Price this engine with all the stuff you need to make it go. Add the cost of a crank, pistons etc. You might need em.
Price the crate motor with all the parts you'll need to make it complete.
I'd bet this cheap motor is the most expensive of the possibilities.
From orbit on my Android.
Thanks, Hatzie. That's good advice. I'm actually pricing stuff right now speak of the devil. One thing I'm not sure of is if the harnesses out of the Chevy catalog will even work or if those are just meant to work with their LS crate motors. I did just find too that they have a 6.0L crate motor with the iron block. I hadn't seen it before. I don't know how much it is though because they don't list its part number but I'll find out. If I still went LS3 then that's $5,900 from Jegs etc. and everything else would be about another $3,000 to make it go. So maybe the 6.0L crate motor is about $3-4K since it's not something meant for Vettes and Camaros.
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In my opinion, if the truck has been in your family for 28 years, you have a piece of nostalgia there. Keep the factory power plant
Hi Zambonie,
I would totally do that but it never had the factory power plant from the first day my father brought it home after purchasing it. And right now it has a Vortec 350 we installed about 10 years ago that's great but what appeals to me is having the same or maybe a little more power but with 18-20 mpg. Right now the truck gets around 14 mpg city at best with nonethanol 91 octane.
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In my opinion, if the truck has been in your family for 28 years, you have a piece of nostalgia there. Keep the factory power plant
Hi Zambonie,
I would totally do that but it never had the factory power plant from the first day my father brought it home after purchasing it. And right now it has a Vortec 350 we installed about 10 years ago that's great but what appeals to me is having the same or maybe a little more power but with 18-20 mpg. Right now the truck gets around 14 mpg city at best with nonethanol 91 octane.
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To get there you need a transmission that's compatible with your choice of PCM. The motor alone won't cut it. Compatibility with older manual transmissions is a serious challenge for the LS. :D
From orbit on my Android.
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Hatzie,
I was originally wanting to go with a NV4500 but have since changed my mind and was thinking about a 4L80e automatic because I have a bad left knee which gets sore after a while from just pushing the clutch in, unfortunately. I bought a one-ton running gear (Dana 60 front axle, Corp. 14-bolt rear, both w/ 4.11 gears) for my truck so that's the reason I kind of settled on the heavier duty 4-speed auto. I found a PCM harness at the link below on ebay that says it should work with the 4L80e also for $665.00, that is for the LY6 (updated version of the LQ4/LQ9), which this motor is as it has the larger L92 rectangular port heads, cylinder head casting number 823.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-2013-LY6-6-0L-L92-6-2L-PSI-STANDALONE-WIRING-HARNESS-W-4L60E-/181306125312?hash=item2a36afec00:g:wOMAAOxyOMdS3V6u&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-2013-LY6-6-0L-L92-6-2L-PSI-STANDALONE-WIRING-HARNESS-W-4L60E-/181306125312?hash=item2a36afec00:g:wOMAAOxyOMdS3V6u&vxp=mtr)
I'm going to take the heads off the engine this weekend if I have time just to take a look at the cylinder walls and see if it still has crosshatch or not. My brother says the motor ran fine when he took it out except for a valve seat that went bad in one of the cylinder heads so it just skipped a little and of course it was most pronounced at idle. But compression was good overall on all the other cylinders and did not leak any oil or burn any except for the affected one with the worn valve seat.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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I know I wrote in an earlier post that the engine came out of a 2011 Chevy 2500 HD 4x4 truck, but I forgot to mention the truck was used by Fed Ex to deliver packages on rural routes across Montana. So the 300k miles on it are probably 90% highway miles. So that's likely why a single valve seat was all that was wrong with it. However, Fed Ex wanted a new engine put in anyway so my brother did what the customer wanted.
I'll post some pics when I take the heads off to see if the cylinders still have crosshatch.
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I don't know where you're located, but most places have Pick N Pull, Pull A Part, LKQ something along those lines. Flat rate pricing, you can get a complete motor for 125 if you pull it.
325 is a good price though, but crosshatch or no, I'd be planning on at a minimum re-ringing, new bearings, oil and water pumps. Heads are largely interchangeable and there's only one bad casting I'd avoid. Rather than having those heads redone, I'd just get good used heads.
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I don't know where you're located, but most places have Pick N Pull, Pull A Part, LKQ something along those lines. Flat rate pricing, you can get a complete motor for 125 if you pull it.
325 is a good price though, but crosshatch or no, I'd be planning on at a minimum re-ringing, new bearings, oil and water pumps. Heads are largely interchangeable and there's only one bad casting I'd avoid. Rather than having those heads redone, I'd just get good used heads.
Thanks, JRGunn.
Out here we have a few junkyards and some a re pick-a-part but that doesn't include engines. The pick-a-part option is for anything except engines and transmissions. When the yards take in a new vehicle out here the first thing they do is remove the engine and transmission and store it in their warehouse. So you just have to call them and tell them what you want and they tell you a price. I called one place this morning and a LY6 6.0L like this one they wanted $1,500 for a complete engine less PCM etc. that had 89K miles on it. That was the cheapest they had. No cheap one that could just considered rebuildable cores. On these heads on this motor for $350, they are the good heads, the L92 heads with the big rectangular ports, casting 823. Newly rebuilt L92 heads are $600 most everywhere I look and I can get these rebuilt from my brother's machinest for a tad less, maybe $500 all said and done.
Another option I can consider with this engine for $350 is to use it to turn in here as a core and get a newly rebuilt reman LY6 6.0L for $2,700. Considering that also. There are some things I will have to buy regardless of which route I go like a PCM but I can get a custom harness built from Affordable-Fuel-Injection.com where you specify everything you want down to the finest detail and then they build the PCM for you. Easy peasy on that part. Have used them before and they're good folks.
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Depending if they are cathedral Port (2.00 intake 1.55 exhaust) 65cc or rectangle port (2.165 intake 1.59 exhaust) 68cc You could sell the heads alone for $350. You could part out the mounting brackets for the alternator, P/s, A/C for some money as well. The exhaust manifolds are also desirable since they don't have EGR ports for hot rods or turbo setups. So if the motor is junk in the bottom end you can still make your money back parting out and making some.