73-87chevytrucks.com
Technical Forum (Read Only) => Chassis Electrical and Ignition => Topic started by: 76StepSd on April 10, 2012, 09:02:23 AM
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My fuel selector switch has failed....toggle wont go back in the other direction. I cant seem to find the same time of toggle switch..all the new replacement switches are of the rocker type. Anyone know where to get the old style toggle switches?
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Autozone sells them. The rocker switch is for TBI equipped trucks. The momentary switch is for the carburetted trucks.
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i dont have a momentary switch ....its stays in whatever position i put it in...either one way for aux or one way for main. I could use the rocker but since it already has the hole for the toggle switch i wanted to used the toggle style instead of the rocker.
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They didn't come with a toggle switch. So whatever you have is aftermarket
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some how i knew someone would say that....lol...i could get the rocker switch.....everyone selling them but then i got the hole in the lower dash there......oh well i guess it will be the rocker switch.
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pix?
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When I was a kid, both our 74 and 76 year model crews had the plain rocker switch. Our 1985 3/4 ton had the momentary switch. I had a 76 3/4 ton that also had a plain rocker switch, as does the 74 stepside I have now.
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(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l191/zx12ryder/76%20Stepside/HondaEnginePull001.jpg)
This is the switch that was mounted on my lower dash for fuel tank selection....and its not momentary it stays in either direction i put it in where as a momentary only stays as long as you hold it in the position.
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When I was a kid, both our 74 and 76 year model crews had the plain rocker switch. Our 1985 3/4 ton had the momentary switch. I had a 76 3/4 ton that also had a plain rocker switch, as does the 74 stepside I have now.
They are both a rocker switch but the carbureted versions are a momentary rocker switch. I've never seen anything factory any other way in the pick ups.
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(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l191/zx12ryder/76%20Stepside/HondaEnginePull001.jpg)
This is the switch that was mounted on my lower dash for fuel tank selection....and its not momentary it stays in either direction i put it in where as a momentary only stays as long as you hold it in the position.
That is the style in my 85 C20 in which the original owner, my uncle, added the additional tank. Bring the switch to radio shack, they should have one or could get you one just like it.
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Here's a whole set up for you http://www.ebay.com/itm/73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80-82-83-84-85-86-GMC-CHEVY-SILVERADO-DUAL-FUEL-TANK-SWITCH-/130683227094?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6d53cbd6&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_1361
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Maybe this will help although I need a pic of the factory 73-75 setup if anyone has one. Mine's long gone.
73-75 bezel
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/73-74.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/73-74b-1.jpg)
76-86 carbureted
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/75up4.jpg)
87 up with TBI
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/87up.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/87upa.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/87upb.jpg)
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OK, now I'm thoroughly confused. Here are the pics I just took, of the selector switch in my '74, which came with dual tanks from the factory. It's identical in every way from what I remember from our 74 and 76 crews, and my own 76. None of the three of them ever required you to do anything other than merely flip the switch - they were definitely not momentary switches. I never even saw a tank switch with the words "Depress Fully" on the switchplate until our '85. It was definitely a momentary, because it had a short somewhere that would blow the fuse if you held the switch down too long.
My 73 crew that I have here, doesn't have this switch at all; instead it has the two manual valves at the floorboard, the way our '72 Longhorn did.
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See the pins for the bezel on the 73-74? That's how the metal dash has the holes for it. Your pic is hard to tell but if they aren't a match then someone swapped in that bezel. I just filled in the holes where mine was as I eliminated the dual tanks otherwise I'd post pix.
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See the pins for the bezel on the 73-74? That's how the metal dash has the holes for it. Your pic is hard to tell but if they aren't a match then someone swapped in that bezel. I just filled in the holes where mine was as I eliminated the dual tanks otherwise I'd post pix.
Yes, the pins on the bezel definitely line up perfectly with the holes in the dash. Here's another pic of the switch and bezel I took out of the truck which shows it better.
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Ok I am confused, did 76StepSd ever get the issue resolved ? It kinda took a different turn.
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Ok I am confused, did 76StepSd ever get the issue resolved ? It kinda took a different turn.
Agreed. Now that I think about it, my 73 crew had such a switch, and it was labeled TravelTanks. All it did though is switch from one sending unit to the other - it didn't control a switching valve at all.
76StepSd, where did you go?
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Are you two Bakes related? ???
OK so my next quaestion to you would be is your cab original to the 73? Vin is in the door jamb riveted? No dash vin etc
Others please chime in so we can figure this out
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1973 GMC K2500, no VIN on dash, VIN riveted to door jamb, production decal on door jamb, original cab, factory dual tank.
Mine is a rocker, not a "fully depress" momentary type switch. Yes the switch is off kilter a bit and I never noticed it in 15 years of owning the truck.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HxmDuglLJM8/T5deflwV1XI/AAAAAAAAAgE/gailbSjHjPM/s640/DSC02206.JPG)
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Are you two Bakes related? ???
OK so my next quaestion to you would be is your cab original to the 73? Vin is in the door jamb riveted? No dash vin etc
Others please chime in so we can figure this out
Nope, no relation.
Both my 73 and 74 are original cabs, with the original VIN tag with the special rivets. Noting that Jason's 73 has the same switch as my 74's and 76's, I'm beginning to think my 73 is a 72-1/2 or something.
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This is great, let's keep our eyes open for 73-74 trucks with dual tanks and see what else we can find. If anyone comes across one take some pics!
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Jason S what does it say on the SPID label in the glove box?
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Jason S what does it say on the SPID label in the glove box?
Actually my truck had the Service Parts label on the drivers side inner fender. I have seen a few other trucks that had the Service Parts label on the inner fender, including my '74 K10.
I removed it from the inner fender to keep it from getting worse damage than it already had. The fourth option on the list: NL2 Auxiliary Fuel Tank
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qH09Cl2FX7A/T52BagqKZOI/AAAAAAAAAgM/6Dj_sKBWXLM/s640/SAM_2734.JPG)
It's a GMC, though it's interesting that the trim option is listed as Custom Deluxe which equates to a Super Custom on a GMC.
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My '74's SPID has the same info.
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and yours is a GMC as well?
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and yours is a GMC as well?
No, it's a Chevy.
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Jason s does the spid label have a matching vin?
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Yes, the label matches the VIN plate on the door jamb (w/VIN rivets).
It really was odd that the Service Parts Decal was on the inner fender, I have seen some earlier ('72 and back) trucks with the Service Parts decal on the inner fender. It makes me wonder if it was routine to a particular plant.
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Yes, the label matches the VIN plate on the door jamb (w/VIN rivets).
It really was odd that the Service Parts Decal was on the inner fender, I have seen some earlier ('72 and back) trucks with the Service Parts decal on the inner fender. It makes me wonder if it was routine to a particular plant.
Both my 73 and 74 have it on the inner left fender. The 73 was built in Baltimore, the 74 in Lakewood.
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Curious why it lists Chevrolet trim options myself... So that's it?
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Curious why it lists Chevrolet trim options myself... So that's it?
Well, maybe we should create a new thread requesting SPID sheet info for all GMC's and Chevys between 73 and 75 (or later?) See if and when the trim codes split off from one another?
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I'm going to do some research on my end when I have extra time and see what I come up with.
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Here's my $0.02:
Until recently, I have never seen the "Push/Pull" type switch setup. I grew up with the 70's Chevy and GMC trucks and can only recall the "depress fully" on the 80's (pre-1987) trucks. For example: My dad had a 1976 GMC C1500 with the same style switch as mine, a high school friend had a 1973 Chevy K10 with the same style switch as mine.
As for my 1973 GMC, here is the full Service Parts label. I have deleted part of the VIN because I'm just paranoid...TKY24.......... T=GMC; K=4 wheel drive; Y=350; 2=3/4 ton; 4=pickup.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uaqT_UevrM4/T6HH1jh6-dI/AAAAAAAAAgY/Kg-9F1xD3N0/s640/DSC02389.JPG)
Here is the GM breakdown for the 1973 light truck VIN, 1974 would be similar if not identical
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1aXwQXkRLYo/T6HI1Wb4jCI/AAAAAAAAAgg/BtibRP3dwuc/s640/DSC02390.JPG)
I'll try to get photos of other '70's trucks in the interim, but the "push/pull" tank switch seems to me to be out of the ordinary for the '73-'74 trucks.
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If my buddy hasn't junked the 74 cab he had of his dads and I can get over there, I think it had the push pull on it. But it was a 3/4T Camper Special. All the others I have seen have what Jason S' has.
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Will check the Shack out zieg85......i do hope they got or can get one.
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Ok I am confused, did 76StepSd ever get the issue resolved ? It kinda took a different turn.
Went to the Shack....not good results. Only thing they had was a "center off" switch with 6 blades on it. So....i did get it though and when i go to the one position i can see whats in my main taink. Havent been using the aux tanks because i want to clean it before i use it and it need a filler neck for it....someone ..somehow pushed in the tangs on the neck where the cap locks in and now the cap wont sit on with out being loose....if i can pry them out with out breaking them it would be good....so overall still working the switch issue....will let you know what i come up with.
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Here is what i did....opened up the switch and saw that there is this plunger thing on the toggle started messing with that and it free'd up the switch but not totally. It still gets hard to flip some times but at least i can use it.
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Here is what i did....opened up the switch and saw that there is this plunger thing on the toggle started messing with that and it free'd up the switch but not totally. It still gets hard to flip some times but at least i can use it.
Sounds like the switch has just worn out, should start looking around for a replacement for when it does go out on you.
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yeah i know but it seems that toggle switch is a pain to find....maybe not looking in right places. there has to be switches out there like the one i got.
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where are you located? If you can find a Westlake ACE Hardware, they can PROBABLY order one from serv-a-lite (Hillman), if they're willing to jump through the hoops to get it ordered. If they aren't, have em call store 4 in Kirksville, MO and ask for Chris, I'll jump through most of the hoops so they just have to fax the order in.
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I am in Youngstown, OH.
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No dice, I'm the closest store to Ohio, except maybe one of the st. louis area stores. :-\
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You got any numbers i can call to order one?
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Steve341 shared this pic of his push/pull fuel switch from his 75 C20 so assuming it's the original cab apparently this was also 75.
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Here's lots of switches, but no push/pull..or toggles.
http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp?ga=us13&q=fuel+tank+selector
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How about this?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CARLING-TECHNOLOGIES-Toggle-Switch-4X850?Pid=search
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Here is a 1974 GMC C1500 Sierra Grande with a push pull dual tank set up. This things is just like the way mine came but mine was blue and white.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/clean-condition-54-911-original-miles-factory-454-motor-/221224827747?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item338206fb63
vin TCZ144F702343
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/fuelselector-3_zps82438bd2.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Sabaka454/media/fuelselector-3_zps82438bd2.jpg.html)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/fuelselector2_zpsc9441773.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Sabaka454/media/fuelselector2_zpsc9441773.jpg.html)
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You know, I was wondering if this switch difference thing was a case of it being built other than in the US (like Canada, maybe), but this one was built in Flint.
The mystery continues...
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and mine was built in Fremont CA
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Going through my old PC and backing up files I came across a bunch of pics I have on this. The 73-75 push pull dual tank setup used a cable operated switching valve. A guy was selling this and I didn't need it but wanted it for the nostalgia, nevertheless I will add the pics I collected here for information purposes.
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You can get the toggle switch from McMaster Carr...
From orbit on my Android.
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Going through my old PC and backing up files I came across a bunch of pics I have on this. The 73-75 push pull dual tank setup used a cable operated switching valve. A guy was selling this and I didn't need it but wanted it for the nostalgia, nevertheless I will add the pics I collected here for information purposes.
Do you know for sure which years had this one. My wiring diagrams only show it in 1974 & 1975 with no RPO.
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Here is a '74 K20 that was a Forest Service truck with the rocker switch:
CKY244Z151350
Appears original, Custom K-20 with 4-speed and full time 4-wheel drive. No A/C or radio
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-C-K-Pickup-2500-K20-Service-Body-/261969123071?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3cfe9396ff&item=261969123071 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-C-K-Pickup-2500-K20-Service-Body-/261969123071?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3cfe9396ff&item=261969123071)
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As far as I can tell 73-75 had the push pull option and then they were all electronic switching valves after and for replacements. My 74 GMC Sierra Grande 454 1500 came with dual tanks and push pull setup.
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OK, now I'm thoroughly confused. Here are the pics I just took, of the selector switch in my '74, which came with dual tanks from the factory. It's identical in every way from what I remember from our 74 and 76 crews, and my own 76. None of the three of them ever required you to do anything other than merely flip the switch - they were definitely not momentary switches. I never even saw a tank switch with the words "Depress Fully" on the switchplate until our '85. It was definitely a momentary, because it had a short somewhere that would blow the fuse if you held the switch down too long.
That's the 75 or 76-80 solenoid valve switch. It's a DPDT switch with 5 terminals. The 6 port Solenoid valve is now obsolete just like the original 73-75 push pull. I wonder if GM had thier dealer service departments replace the push pull with the first generation rocker switch setup if there were issues...
The switches with "Depress Fully" are momentary polarity reversing switches. They're original to the 81-86 motorized valve system.
I recommend using the 87-91 TBI switches on all of the 81 and later motorized valve setups. The valve motor shuts off automatically as soon as it gets to the end of its' travel.
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As far as I can tell 73-75 had the push pull option and then they were all electronic switching valves after and for replacements. My 74 GMC Sierra Grande 454 1500 came with dual tanks and push pull setup.
I've been looking at the 73-80 GM Factory wiring diagrams to compile a writeup on the Auxiliary tank setups. Chris has my scans of all of them in the tech section if you care to look.
I found an odd thing in these service manuals that might call into question how these valves were allocated from 73-77...
-The 73 manual shows the Solenoid valve wiring ONLY. It's marked NL2. No diagram for the Push Pull valve and switch in the 73 manual.
-The 74 manual shows the Cable valve wiring ONLY. It's Marked NL2. No diagram for the Solenoid valve and switch in the 74 manual.
-78 & 79 show the same as the 73 Solenoid system drawing
-80 adds a, now obsolete, retained accessory power relay to the valve. Probably to keep fuel flowing if AUX is selected when the truck is started.
-The 75 to 77 wiring manuals have three (yes three) Auxiliary tank wiring diagrams.
-----Two are marked NL2. One matches the 1973 Solenoid Drawing and the other matches the 1974 Cable Valve drawing.
-----The third is marked "Auxiliary Fuel Tank Accessory". It has the same 5 position plug and rocker switch as the Solenoid system. But. Only the double pole "sender to gauge" switching side is populated.
It looks like it was possible to have either NL2 system installed on the 75-77 trucks... ????
AND What is the third wiring diagram with no RPO?
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Somewhere in the discussion I think we lost the original question about finding a toggle switch, which were usually used with dealer-installed dual tanks. The factory installed switch for dual tanks changed over time, sometimes using a plastic rocker switch and other times a plastic bodypush-pull switch.
Are you looking for a dealer-installed DPDT toggle switch, or a factory replacement switch? Some Internet companies offer a good selection of factory switches, and a standard DPDT toggle switch should be available in most auto parts or electronic parts stores. You can also buy spring-loaded momentary-on DPDT switches if that is what you need.
Bruce
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The original post is from 2012. I hope he's still not stuck on this....
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Yah, sometimes i'm reading a post i think is like 2 hrs old, and then i find its really from 2005. Lol
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More info on the push-pull dual tank system. I also refurbished a valve and cable assembly. I'll dig it all out when I get a chance to show the cable and switch.
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Cable-operated dual tank valve.