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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Interior & Equipment => Steering Columns => Topic started by: Spool on February 28, 2021, 10:56:23 AM

Title: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on February 28, 2021, 10:56:23 AM
Hey Guys.
73 c20 here.

This thread (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=29646.msg247910#msg247910) is teaching me that I need a steering wheel puller to access the ignition switch that I'm replacing.

But, can I confirm anything else I may need before going further?
I've looked at many videos online, and can't seem to find one that looks like my column.
For example, in the photo attached, this is how far I got down the column before becoming stuck.

Title: Re: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: VileZambonie on February 28, 2021, 04:46:57 PM
The ignition switch is on top of the column and you do not need to remove the steering wheel.
Title: Re: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on February 28, 2021, 05:07:44 PM
Spool, did you look at the service manual?  Removing the steering wheel is necessary only if you need to replace the key tumbler.  As VileZambonie stated, the ignition switch attaches to the top of the steering column roughly 6" behind the dash plate.  The key tumbler actuates the switch through a geared rack and rod that runs down the top of the column.  The easiest access to the switch is by unbolting the column and dropping it down to lay on the seat while you work.  Or, if you're only a foot tall, you can stand under the dash and reach up over your head.   ;D
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: MIKE S on February 28, 2021, 05:37:26 PM
In his picture it looks like the cylinder is missing.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on February 28, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Apologies. I think I posted in the wrong thread thinking my ignition switch is the tumbler.

It's the tumbler I need to access. The plastic piece for your thumb when turning the key broke of- So, I'm looking to swap it out.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: VileZambonie on March 01, 2021, 04:21:45 PM
Looks like you've got an aftermarket wheel. You need to remove the hub, the cover underneath, use a lockplate depressor to remove the snap ring and remove the lockplate. Remove the turn signal switch and lever and you'll be able to access the lock cylinder. There are differences so you need to tell us what year the column is for more details.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 01, 2021, 07:43:39 PM
Thanks Vile.
I'll create a different post to keep it organized.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 02, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
Hey Vile,

I'll copy/paste here too:

My steering wheel is aftermarket, but does that change the setup of the column?
You also mentioned that I need a puller to remove the hub - would the hub be the metal piece in the first photo?
Will any old wheel puller work or does it need to be specific?
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: VileZambonie on March 03, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
This is close enough to show you the basic steps. Obviously only go down far enough to replace the ignition cylinder.

http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12525.0

and 3B4

http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/techinfo/7387CKMans//Service/X8632_1986_GMC_Light_Duty_Truck_CK_G_P_10_to_30_Service_Manual.pdf
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 03, 2021, 10:09:49 PM
Very cool. Excellent instructions.
I have a service manual, but I think it's older than the 86 you shared. Mine is just Red with no picture- I forget the year.

I have all but two necessary tools listed which are new tools to me. May I confirm whether these would work?

Steering wheel puller:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7763905?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Tools-Equipment&campaign_id=8553470562&adgroup_id=107047174069&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhP2BBhDdARIsAJEzXlHNmtyf8CtO9eWuivr66WOCJUWGy7k2huRnlLigU_WiLEEEnWx6uOYaAtq4EALw_wcB& (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7763905?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Tools-Equipment&campaign_id=8553470562&adgroup_id=107047174069&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhP2BBhDdARIsAJEzXlHNmtyf8CtO9eWuivr66WOCJUWGy7k2huRnlLigU_WiLEEEnWx6uOYaAtq4EALw_wcB&)

Lock plate remover/installer
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769063?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Tools-Equipment&campaign_id=8553470562&adgroup_id=107047174069&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhP2BBhDdARIsAJEzXlFzGwOVN50zXSrPAhjpJXJvTf5o5lD9SknZcN_RZ5EJREXLY-v5LboaAliSEALw_wcB& (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769063?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Tools-Equipment&campaign_id=8553470562&adgroup_id=107047174069&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhP2BBhDdARIsAJEzXlFzGwOVN50zXSrPAhjpJXJvTf5o5lD9SknZcN_RZ5EJREXLY-v5LboaAliSEALw_wcB&)

Pivot pin remover would be a third tool, but that's not required for this job.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: VileZambonie on March 04, 2021, 04:19:58 AM
I referenced the later column because that's what you have. You have a wiper stalk on the column.

https://www.harborfreight.com/steering-wheel-remover-set-63685.html
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 04, 2021, 08:17:32 AM
Ah. I see.
So that kit also looks like it covers the lock plate remover as well, correct?
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 04, 2021, 09:10:37 AM
The splined steering shaft and aluminum three-hole adapter hub at the top of the shaft are a tapered fit.  If the aluminum hub proves stubborn to remove you will also need a Bolt-Type Steering Wheel Puller (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sxt-3900). 

Let me try to pull all of this together for you.  The Steering Wheel Remover Set (https://www.harborfreight.com/steering-wheel-remover-set-63685.html) linked by VileZambonie is perfect for the factory GM "two-bolt" steering wheel configuration and includes the tools that you will need AFTER you remove the aluminum "three-bolt" adapter for the aftermarket steering wheel you currently have in the truck. 

The Bolt-Type Steering Wheel Puller (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sxt-3900) that I linked is specifically to remove that aftermarket adapter, after which you would use the puller set linked by Vile.  However, there is a caveat.  You need to be careful when purchasing a three-bolt steering wheel puller to ensure that the puller will fit the small bolt circle of the steering wheel hub.  The Bolt-Type Wheel Puller Set (https://www.harborfreight.com/bolt-type-wheel-puller-set-62620.html?cid=paid_google%7C%7C%7C62620&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAiAp4KCBhB6EiwAxRxbpDtIP2TakLmsTrn72elVk3SIatI2UsP0hMTHAa41XB5mXfnpuWxqYBoCJfgQAvD_BwE) listed in your other thread (http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=38600.msg323192#msg323192) is designed for harmonic balancers with larger bolt circles.  In other words, the set linked in your other thread may be too large to properly fit and remove the hub.

The puller you linked from NAPA is the wrong tool for removing the steering wheel.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 11, 2021, 07:59:41 PM
Thanks, BD. I appreciate you organizing this for me.
I was at PepBoys today checking out there stuff and notice many pullers look similar but have different uses as you pointed out.

I went ahead and grabbed the bolt-type steering wheel puller you linked just now.
And also the puller set linked by Vile. I'll report back with successes or troubles.

Thanks again, BD. The time you take here is truly appreciated.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 18, 2021, 09:38:40 PM
Alright.
Thanks to your help, Vile and BD, I got the job done.

Two things.

1. The aftermarket hub that I got off- I was having trouble getting it back on. That is, pushing it back into place as the guy at PepBoys told me was cutting it. Instead, I grabbed two large wrenches and a rubber mallet. Was this a good idea or a bad idea? Picture attached.

2. I removed the ignition lock and then placed the new ignition lock in. I then proceeded to replace the hex bolt to hold the ignition lock in place.
However, I couldn't get it in. So, I take the bolt back out and see the ignition lock is blocking my clearance. Yet, when I go to take the ignition lock out to inspect it further, I find that I can't. I tried for about 15 minutes to get it out, until I realized, well, if I can't get it out, then I suppose I don't need the hex bolt to keep it in. As it stands now, everything works and is back together, but I have the hex bolt off to the side.
Any thoughts as to what I did wrong?

Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 18, 2021, 09:49:17 PM
1)  The center nut seats the adapter hub onto the tapered shaft.  As long as the splines and alignment ticks are lined up, just tighten the nut.  No need to pound on the hub.

2)  There are two designs of lock tumbler, early and late.  Did you compare the cylinders before swapping?  Do they match exactly (other than the thumb flags that were broken off)?
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 18, 2021, 10:10:10 PM
I did compare the two - they had their subtle differences, but were GM made and identical in size.

I placed the new one after seeing how there was a groove on the bottom of the column that lines up when inserting.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: JohnnyPopper on March 24, 2021, 06:41:13 PM
Queue Willie Nelson "On the Road Again"!!  ;D

Nice work Spooler man!  8)
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 24, 2021, 08:36:09 PM
Thanks man.
Any thought on how to get the ignition lock back out? One day, I’ll have to, or even maybe sooner to do it correctly if needed.


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: JohnnyPopper on March 25, 2021, 11:15:33 AM
It's been years since I was that deep into it, but the pic of the new one reminds me of what locks the cylinder in it's spot; the spring loaded black thingy toward the bottom. Can you get to that, depress it and slide the cylinder out?

Having a hard time understanding your hex question. Is it a bolt or a nut? Can you post pics of the area below the hub?

If it's all back together I guess the point is moot.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Yeah- it is kind of moot.
The only point worth entertaining the talk of removing the new one is: is it so easy to remove that someone can pop it out and then just reach in with pliers to start it up.

I’d have to take the whole thing apart again to see if I can depress anything.

But, and I wish I had a picture... the old ignition lock had a small groove machine out, which left clearance for the hex bolt to slide into place. The new ignition lock doesn’t have that, hence why I gave up trying to get it in place- zero clearance.

Yet, something is holding the new lock in place- I just don’t know what.


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: JohnnyPopper on March 25, 2021, 01:34:16 PM
I get it now, sounds like the new one with the spring tab is what is locking the cylinder in place, that's why you couldn't pull it out.

The old one was keyed with clearance for a bolt that locked it in. I think your good to go, you can't pull out the new cylinder.

BTW, you just ran over a weakness in these ignition designs... you can hammer a flat screwdriver into the key slot, break the inside of the cylinder, turn the screwdriver and drive away. Yikes! #whatisatireboot
Title: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
I joke about this at times in saying, I could steal this thing with a screwdriver if I really wanted to.


Which is exactly why I’m researching kill switches at the moment before I start a new thread.

I’ll provide a teaser though: cigarette lighter kill switch. (Another step to get me to quit smoking too- two for one!)


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 25, 2021, 02:04:03 PM
(http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=38591.0;attach=52989;image)

Spool, you replaced a late-style tumbler (bolt retained) with an early-style tumbler (flag retained).  The original column was probably replaced with a newer design at some point.  Removing the old design tumbler from a new design column will be problematic, requiring a precisely placed square tip screwdriver tapped with a hammer to create a rectangular hole in the housing through which you can depress the flag.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 02:31:04 PM
How can you tell I have a new column?

And if so, are you saying I need to break the new lock to remove it?


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 25, 2021, 04:25:03 PM
I don't recall in which production year the migration to bolt-retained ignition tumblers took place, but the 1973 model year trucks had the earlier design columns that used flag-retained tumblers.  So, without additional information, I surmise that the column in your truck is not the original, but from a later model truck.

Hopefully, removing the new lock cylinder will only require a strategically placed screwdriver to create a hole in the right place of the housing to access the spring-loaded release flag.  The process sounds more worrisome than it actually is to accomplish.  It's simply a matter of recognizing the correct location to create the new release hole.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: JohnnyPopper on March 25, 2021, 04:38:40 PM
A good kill switch will just disable the signal to the starter solenoid, I think.

I'd like to have a layer of insurance.

I can draw up a circuit where all you/we will need is a small magnet to bypass it.

Maybe bd knows the amperage draw of the solenoid is? Match a relay and we're good to go.

Just keep a few magnets around just in case... 8)
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 06:19:39 PM
Thanks BD. I’ll revisit this when I ever have to remove the ignition lock.

Johnny, I’m gonna start a different thread for the kill switch idea- I’m still researching and brainstorming where to put or which circuit to interrupt, but will def. ask you more about that magnet concept you just mentioned in that thread.


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: JohnnyPopper on March 25, 2021, 08:39:42 PM
Ok man, I looked at the warehouse today, found a 12v triggered, 70 amp relay, ought to do it.

Will test my circuit theory in the meantime.

First thought is to interrupt the starter solenoid wire with a relay.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 08:53:21 PM
Yeah - good idea on the starter. I'd like to pick your brain about that.
I just started the other thread in the electrics area.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 25, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
The problem with interrupting the solenoid signal is that it can be bypassed easily and the engine cranked using a screwdriver.  Does your truck have conventional points ignition or has it been upgraded with HEI?
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 25, 2021, 10:53:34 PM
HEI- you personally went above and beyond to help me with the job of replacing my distributor back in Feb of 2018.


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Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: bd on March 26, 2021, 12:55:03 AM
Use a cleverly hidden but accessible to you DPST mini toggle switch.  Connect two terminals from one side of the switch across the pickup coil wires.  Connect the two terminals from the opposite side of the switch between a good ground and the fuel level sender signal wire.  When the switch is activated, the ignition won't fire because the pickup coil signal to the ignition module is shunted and null.  At the same time, the fuel gauge will indicate Empty.  When the switch is deactivated, everything will function normally.  The idea is to spoof a would-be thief sufficiently that the normal tricks used to hot-wire wouldn't work such that (s)he would give up on it and look for a different target.  Of course, if you want to compound a thief's frustration, you could couple this approach with the 'defeat relay and magnetic switch' earlier suggested.
Title: Re: How to replace ignition switch?
Post by: Spool on March 26, 2021, 03:18:51 PM
Boy, am I glad I know you guys.
Both of these ideas sound awesome!

Let me locate my pickup coil and wrap my head around some of this before I properly respond.