1
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News:
Registration and Posting Agreement
Home
Forum
Store
Help
Search
Gallery
Login
Register
73-87chevytrucks.com
»
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks
»
Electrical
»
Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Author
Topic: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid (Read 12663 times)
drtbikkid
Newbie
Posts: 27
Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
on:
May 31, 2012, 06:42:33 PM »
Recently got a power master 9600 and want to wire it to a remote solenoid. I've heard that if a jumper is used on a permanent magnet starter it will hang out for a few seconds. Can someone tell me how to wire it up? Or maybe a crude diagram? I'm an electrical dunce. Any info is appreciated.
Logged
__________________________________________
Tire Design Engineer: Toyo Tire North America
1978 K10: 8" lift, Granny 4 speed. 84 Model 305.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer... everything looks like a nail."
slammed79
Senior Member
Posts: 1367
Thou shalt not drive stock
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #1 on:
May 31, 2012, 11:01:47 PM »
Try doing a search for Ford selenoid conversion, either on the site here or on google, that should fix ya up.
Logged
74 C10 Long bed 350/SM465 Lowered on 20's
Praise the lowered
drtbikkid
Newbie
Posts: 27
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #2 on:
June 01, 2012, 03:54:46 PM »
so my research has led me to a main debate: run a cable from the battery straight to the starter, then run a smaller gage wire from the relay to the solenoid on the starter., or run a cable from the battery to the Relay then to the starter. i have heard arguments both ways. anyone know about this stuff? one thing i do know is to not run a jumper on the starter. thats about as far as i have gotten.
just lookin for a simple wire this to this, or crude picture.
i hate electrical
Logged
__________________________________________
Tire Design Engineer: Toyo Tire North America
1978 K10: 8" lift, Granny 4 speed. 84 Model 305.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer... everything looks like a nail."
jaredts
Senior Member
Posts: 1330
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #3 on:
June 01, 2012, 07:45:09 PM »
What are you hoping to accomplish?
Logged
drtbikkid
Newbie
Posts: 27
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #4 on:
June 01, 2012, 10:43:54 PM »
The wiring in the truck is rough. I want to replace fusible links and questionable wires, and have as few wires as possible on the starter (heat, mud, etc.). I have the relay already and was thinking I could keep everything in the engine compartment. And do a cleaner job with my wiring.
I just want long term reliability in less than desirable conditions.
Logged
__________________________________________
Tire Design Engineer: Toyo Tire North America
1978 K10: 8" lift, Granny 4 speed. 84 Model 305.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer... everything looks like a nail."
bake74
Senior Member
Posts: 5871
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #5 on:
June 02, 2012, 05:31:54 PM »
I would say most people have not done this on our trucks. But go ahead and make a thread out of if and let us all know how it works out.
Logged
#1: The easiest and most obvious solution to any problem is 99% of the time correct.
#2: There is no such thing as impossible, it just takes longer.
74 k10, 77k10 Tom
78 Chevyrado
Z62 ON-ROAD
Site Supporters
Senior Member
Posts: 2682
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #6 on:
June 03, 2012, 02:12:33 AM »
Generally, a relay like fords had, would be MAIN BATTERY CABLE to RELAY then MAIN CABLE FROM RELAY TO STARTER. all smaller wire meet up and hook up wherever you hookup the relay
The main BIG cable from the battery would run through the relay and then goto the starter. The only difference is NONE of the smaller wires would goto the starter, but would all meetup at the relay you install.
Logged
Kenny
1978 C-20, 350/400, 3.73, Graystone Metallic, Raceline Renegade 8 Wheels - 18x8.5, 275/70R18 BFG KO's
Irish_Alley
Tim
Global Moderator
Senior Member
Posts: 13319
Family is not an important thing. It's everything.
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #7 on:
June 03, 2012, 03:37:17 AM »
if you plan on mudding. which it sound like you do, you want as little as possible on there cause water likes to screw with things. but even with the ford solenoid you still have the same wires, the solenoid is just remote. if you worrying about the starter the only thing you can do for it is seal it up with some permatex to prevent water from getting in. we do this on all our mud trucks, cause its the first thing to mess up then you have to replace the starter. and some on here have problems with heat and starters but we have one motor that has had the same starter on her for idk 9-10 years and shes seen plenty of mud and mud bogs so she gets some heat also. i may be beating the wrong bush but this is what your planing right?
Logged
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes
drtbikkid
Newbie
Posts: 27
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #8 on:
June 04, 2012, 11:21:03 AM »
in short, i just need to know the differances, if any, between wiring a remote solenoid with a normal starter, vs. wiring a remote solenoid with a Permanent Magnet Mini-Starter.
Logged
__________________________________________
Tire Design Engineer: Toyo Tire North America
1978 K10: 8" lift, Granny 4 speed. 84 Model 305.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer... everything looks like a nail."
bd
Global Moderator
Senior Member
Posts: 6454
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #9 on:
June 05, 2012, 12:59:45 AM »
If you try to power your GM PM starter with a single cable (like a Ford) you'll experience delayed drive disengagement. The problem stems from a PM starter momentarily acting like a generator after battery power is removed, keeping the solenoid energized through the "jumper wire" for 1 - 2 seconds, after the engine starts. The consequences are really annoying!
The only way to avoid the problem is to wire it like a Chevy!
Here's why:
Ford energizes their solenoid and starter motor
at the same time
through a shared battery cable that is switched by a remote relay. The Ford solenoid serves the single purpose of engaging the starter drive with the ring gear. Ford uses a single-step process.
The magnetic field that moves the solenoid is the
same
magnetic field that turns the motor.
A PM motor
cannot
generate enough power to run itself.
GM energizes their solenoid through a dedicated circuit that is electrically isolated from the starter motor. On GM, the solenoid doubles as the starter relay. So, the solenoid engages the drive with the ring gear, then closes a high-current switch to energize the starter motor. GM uses a dual-step process.
The magnetic field that moves the solenoid is
independent
from the magnetic field that turns the motor.
A PM motor
can
generate enough power to keep the GM solenoid energized if jumpered directly to the power lead of the solenoid.
Confused?
Bottom line, use Powermaster's philosophy: Wire a Ford like a Ford, and a GM like a GM.
Logged
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)
Irish_Alley
Tim
Global Moderator
Senior Member
Posts: 13319
Family is not an important thing. It's everything.
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #10 on:
June 06, 2012, 12:27:51 AM »
idk when but fords used two solenoid
Logged
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes
bd
Global Moderator
Senior Member
Posts: 6454
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #11 on:
June 06, 2012, 01:45:25 AM »
Quote from: Irish_Alley on June 06, 2012, 12:27:51 AM
idk when but fords used two solenoid
If we're thinking about the same thing, the Ford 'solenoid' mounted on the inner fender is actually a remote mounted relay. In addition to the relay (aka: solenoid), Ford built a second solenoid into the starter that simply levered the starter drive (Bendix) into mesh with the ring gear. Some Fords used a hybrid design that incorporated a GM-style solenoid operated by the remote mounted Ford relay. The single cable running between the relay and the starter made for a clean installation. Unfortunately, if you wire a "PM" starter this way it can cause a 1 - 2 second delayed release from the ring gear after the engine starts (kind of like holding the key in the Start position after the engine is running).
Logged
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)
Irish_Alley
Tim
Global Moderator
Senior Member
Posts: 13319
Family is not an important thing. It's everything.
Re: Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid
«
Reply #12 on:
June 06, 2012, 02:42:48 AM »
this is why i hate fords lol, i just knew about this from my moms 99 e150 and only had to replace it once. and if i remember right according to the parts manual it was called a solenoid switch
Logged
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
73-87chevytrucks.com
»
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks
»
Electrical
»
Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid