S.O.S.!!! Can anyone help with my electrical dilemma?

[85Stroker]

Hello everyone,
I have an electrical problem that's driving me totally NUTS! I just installed a gear reduction starter on my 85 K1500 with a 383 stroker motor, the problem I'm having is that when I go to start it it acts like the battery is about dead, and will hardly turn it over even one time. Here's the dilemma part, I have tested the NEW battery (just installed) just prior to attempting to start it and it is showing a FULL charge, now if I jump it with another vehicle it fires right up! As mentioned, I just installed  a new battery and a new alternator as well, I also installed 2 gauge battery cables (both positive and negative cables) to flow more juice to the starter. I have tested every single electrical circuit and none show any draws what so ever, I tested my new alternator and it passed with flying colors, I cant find any bad grounds, all fuses are good I can't find any shorts, breaks in wires, etc. I am at a complete loss as to why it won't start, can anyone point me in a direction I may have missed or overlooked??? ANY help would be greatly appreciated, I am severely color blind so doing wiring is hard enough, due to the fact I can't tell the colors of the wires, but I have trouble shooted everything they listed in my original GM mechanics service manual, and checked every circuit according to the wiring schematics in the manual and, hard as it is to admit, I am completely stumped! Thank you in advance for any input or help!
Best wishes to all!
85Stroker in Missouri ( or in this case MISERY!)

[bd]

Symptoms could be caused by an incorrect battery ground cable attachment location.  Where is the battery ground cable physically attached to the engine?  Are the new battery cables all copper, copper-clad aluminum, or all aluminum?  Did you fabricate the battery cables or purchase prefab cables? 

To reveal any prior assumptions, take some voltage drop measurements.  Connect your voltmeter across the battery terminals.  Record the voltmeter reading.  With the voltmeter still connected to the battery, attempt to crank the engine and record that voltmeter reading.  Connect your voltmeter's negative probe to the battery's negative terminal pad and the positive probe to the starter case.  Attempt to crank the engine and record the voltmeter reading.  Now, connect the voltmeter's positive probe to the battery's positive terminal pad and the negative probe to the starter B+ post.  Attempt to crank the engine and record the voltmeter reading.  Connect your voltmeter's positive probe to the starter B+ post of the starter solenoid and the voltmeter's negative probe to the starter's case.  Attempt to crank the engine and record the voltmeter reading.  Post all of your voltage measurements with clear descriptions of where they were taken.

Gear reduction starters generally draw less current than the more common direct drive starters.  How did you "test" the battery?  Where did you physically connect the jumper cables to your truck from the other vehicle battery?

[JohnnyPopper]

bd is ON the case!

Will be curious to see how this works out...

[85Stroker]

Hi bd, thanks for the reply, I have the battery ground cable connected to the lower bolt of the alternator, the long bolt that goes into the block, I had Napa build the 2 gauge cables and they are copper, I watched the guy making them and he did a very good job.I also have a ground cable going from the block to the frame. I was concerned that it was a grounding issue but I have checked and made sure the grounds were clean and against bare metal so I can't figure out where, IF it is a grounding issue, it would be, that's part of what is frustrating the heck out of me!

Tomorrow I'm going to take your advice and do the tests you mentioned, looking for any voltage drops, and will report my findings here.

Thanks again, I'm hoping with yours, and anyone else's, assistance I can find what is going on before I loose my marbles completely!!!

[85Stroker]

Hey bd, I forgot to answer your other questions,a friend of mine has a load tester and he tested my battery, also when jumping it we just went battery to battery, all 4 ends were on the 4 respective battery terminals, positive to positive, negative to negative, it fired right up. Hopefully the tests tomorrow will result in some useful information. Thanks again.

[bd]

Hi bd, thanks for the reply, I have the battery ground cable connected to the lower bolt of the alternator, the long bolt that goes into the block

Top post or side terminal battery?  Without tightening or changing a/g, add to your list of voltage drop tests: battery posts to cable ends for both battery terminal connections while attempting to crank.  Be sure to wear full eye protection while performing electrical tests on, at, or around the battery.

After performing all of your voltage drop tests relocate the ground cable to attach directly and securely to the block.  Make sure all paint has been removed to shiny bare metal and chase the bolt hole threads.  Install a split lock washer and a clean flat washer between the bolt head and cable.  DO NOT anchor the ground cable to a manifold bolt.

[85Stroker]

Hi bd,
I have a side post battery, I'm trying to do the draw tests but I have mo help today so that's not helping, as I  am partially disabled and it's very hard for me to get under my truck, but I'm working at it. I have found that I have good voltage from the positive terminal down to the starter connection, within .4 of what my battery is reading. Another problem is the draw is so severe that it barely will crank over even 1 time, so trying to turn it over for around 5 seconds to get a good reading is out of the question. I have redone my grounds to make sure they are on bare metal, I know I have something creating a heck of a draw but I just can't find where it is and I'm not able to follow the wiring diagrams I have very much due to my severe colorblindness. One question I have is regarding the "blue and green" wires going to my 4 speed for the back up lights, someone cut them so they aren't connected, do I need to jumper them? If I'm reading the diagram correctly they don't go to the clutch start interlock so I wouldn't think they would need to be, but I could use verification on that.
My saga continues but I'm determined to get to the bottom of this problem period! I am really grateful for your assistance and I'm going to keep working at trying to get some actual numbers on the draw tests, its just taking me longer since I'm not 100%.

[bd]

Have patience with my questions.  Since I'm not there with you to observe, I find it necessary to ask for clarification prompted by your commentary. 

Do you understand that a voltage drop measurement is the actual voltage consumed and ultimately wasted as heat by a wire or connection?  It is not the voltage measured at a particular location in the circuit in relation to ground.  It is the voltage loss across the length of a wire measured end-to-end or across a less-than-perfect connection measured side-to-side.  Inasmuch as the voltmeter probes are positioned at opposite ends of the wire or on opposite sides of the connection that is being diagnosed, voltage drop IS NOT measured with respect to ground.  In other words, voltage drop is not the voltage measured at various spots in the circuit with the negative voltmeter probe always connected to ground, rather, it is the voltage measured across discrete sections of the circuit representing energy actually wasted by the individual circuit components.  Therefore, when you say, "I have found that I have good voltage from the positive terminal down to the starter connection, within .4 of what my battery is reading," I must ask exactly where you had the voltmeter's two probes connected to arrive at 0.4 volt?

In addition, you don't need to crank for ~5 seconds for a valid reading.  All that's required is that you attempt to crank the engine in order to load the circuit.  We are interested in where voltage is being lost or wasted, nothing more at this point in your diagnosis.

[JohnnyPopper]

In some instances, can you set up your phone to video the meter while you turn the key?

You may have to adapt some alligator clips to your meter leads to test other points per bd.

Or tie a 10' temporary lead wire to your solenoid terminal, and apply 12+ at the battery when you have your leads in place.

[85Stroker]

Hey bd, I'm currently at work but ask as many questions as you want, I'm grateful for the help and asome knowlessistance! I will never claim to be all that well versed on electrical matters as I have kind of shied away from it due to being so colorblind, I have some knowledge about "voltage draws" although I could not explain as well as you have. I'm off this weekend so I'm going to be trying to get more testing done and hopefully get some information that will help you help me in figuring out this problem. Thanks again and keep on asking, I will keep replying my friend!

Johnnypopper, thank you for your input as well, I will see if I can try your suggestions, unless I get lucky and get some helping hands.

[bd]

I can see that we must remain very attentive and alert to our use of nomenclature (e.g., voltage doesn't "draw," because it doesn't move through a circuit.  Rather, it is used up or consumed in the process of forcing an organized movement, or flow, of current.  Voltage is force.  Current is the directed flow of charged particles.  Hence, current 'draws' from higher voltage to lower voltage, while voltage differences enforce that 'draw').  Voltage is cause.  Current is effect.  Therefore, "voltage draw" is meaningless, whereas, "voltage drop (aka, voltage loss)" has a very exact and precise definition.  For efficiency's sake, it's important that we are on the same page in our use of terminology.  I'll help as I can.

[JohnnyPopper]

Nikola to Tesla referred to voltage as tension or pressure.

Makes sense but I admit to being a babe when it comes to electrical theory.

[bd]

Truthfully, JP, voltage and current are different manifestations of the same thing.  Voltage is the quantification of accumulated charge.  Current is the quantification of charge migration.

[85Stroker]

I've been baling hay all weekend so I haven't had any time to work on my truck, I'm hoping we can finish baling tomorrow so I can work on it Tues. Will definitely post when I have the tests completed. Thanks in advance for your patience!
85Stroker

[JohnnyPopper]

Truthfully, JP, voltage and current are different manifestations of the same thing.  Voltage is the quantification of accumulated charge.  Current is the quantification of charge migration.

My goal is to be a mathematician, by then it will make more sense. It may take 2-300 years but I'm sure I'll get there.