73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: 84Silverado4x4 on October 28, 2013, 08:08:45 PM
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Looking for some advice or opinions for the route I should take in swaping a 5.3 and 4l60e in my 84 shortbox 4x4. It currently has a tired 350 and 700r4 in it. The truck has a np208 transfer case that just rebuilt and would like to reuse it. I'm looking to do it on a low budget but I would still like to do a quality job. The truck has a suspension lift with 35" tires and 4:10 gears. I use the truck as a daily driver and will pull a small trailer now and again. I'm looking to do the swap for the EFI and I would like to see a little better fuel economy. I'm not sure what year 5.3 would be the best to look for and if cable or drive by wire is the better way to go. Also wondering what I will all need to make the swap....like motor mounts...tranny mount?...wiring harness...ecu......fuel system. Any pointers would be great!
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Most tuners prefer the newer stuff and Drive by wire, but if you're only after stock performance (which is well above what came factory) Any would be good, but the early ones with mechanical throttle can be easily swapped to our trucks. Check my thread on my conversion, I tried to detail everything I could: http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12120.0.
You can use the current 700Re if you wanted, you don't have to go with the 4L60E if you want to save money and your 700R4 is up to par. I would get the whole motor as a pull out and get everything that is attached from the radiator hoses partial exhaust and manifolds, throttle cable and complete UNCUT wiring. For fuel, you can use your existing setup, just get a 87-91 R/V sending unit and drop in a EFI pump.
The trans mount should be the same if you are able to use the np208 which should bolt up to the 60E if I remember correctly. For motor mounts, I suggest anyones plate system and use your existing motor mounts. I have used Edelbrok plates, transdapt plates and Street and Performance plates without issue.
I haven't used these but http://dirtydingo.com/store/index.php?cPath=1_206_305_318 is one that supposed to fit,
$53 transdapt: http://www.jegs.com/i/Trans-Dapt/969/4572/10002/-1
$47 jegs with hardware: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/50523/10002/-1
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My current 700r4 is getting a little tired so I was thinking of either rebuilding it or replacing it with a 4l60e. Is it difficult to hook up the TV cable to the 5.3? Most people I have talked to pointed me towards the 4l60e but I know they are finding some pretty cool ways to build the 700r4 very strong and capable. Just seemed like I could get a rebuilt or used 4l60e cheaper than a rebuilt 700r4. Is there a trans adapter I need to make the 4l60e work with my np208? I was thinking of using the Dirty Dingo motor mounts as I have heard good things about them. Is there a year range of the 5.3 that is better than another or a year(s) to stay away from? Is it best to spend the extra up front and buy a drop out engine package with wiring and an ecu? Or do I just buy a harness and ecu that is meant for my conversion and tuned? If so where should I go for a harness and ecu? If I drop in a 87-91 r/v series sending unit what pump should I use?
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The only difference in a 4L60E and a 700R4 is the electronic control. You can make them handle power, but stupid power you will be spending some money on.
There is no adapter required to connect the LS to the 700R4, you just don't use one bolt. You do have to make sure what year you use as you possibly would need to use the spacer that came on the early motors to engage the Trans.
For the TV cable here is one solution: http://www.tvmadeez.com/ls1_cam/
For the NP208 to 4L60E http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/50-0405--6-bolt-to-4-bolt-adapter-with-vss-for-the-1997-current-gm-4l60e4l65e-4-speed-automatic-transmissionadapter-kit/ (PN 50-0405)
Any 5.3L will work, they are all better than you current offering. '03-up all had drive by wire, you need pre -03 intake to use the TV cable setup.
If you aren't intimidated by wiring, I would get a pullout with all the stuff I listed above and just unpin it, or send it off to be cleaned up. lt1swap.com has all the info you need to do this though. ECM I would just use one from the motor, wiring I have used painless' kit but the next one I do will just be an unpinned harness.
for the sender use and EP381 pump (96-up Vortec pump)
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I keep hearing how that's the only difference but it sure seems like the general consensus is that the 4l60e is a better way to go over the 700r4. If you had to rebuild the 700r4 or buy a 4l60e what would you do? Also what 5.3 would you purchase... the drive by cable or drive by wire? I had a new body style GMC and the throttle pedal had terrible lag...I could put it to the floor and literally count to about 5 before it did anything. I loved the truck but that would be a complaint. Can they tune them to make that better? I also was looking at possibly using a Lokar drive by wire pedal if I went that route. Is that a good way to go or is it better to stick with the stock pedal out of a donor truck? I heard if you buy the right motor mounts and the right exhaust manifolds or headers you wont need to notch or trim the frame. Any idea what combo that would be? I think it was using Dirty Dingo mounts and some exhaust combo. I'm thinking I would like to stick to manifolds just to keep the leaks to a minimum and I will be using the truck in all weather conditions. Is it better to have catalytic convertors or doesn't it make a difference?
Thanks for the help!
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I would get a 4L60E and an adapter and use either a NP208 or NP241 if I could find a matched set from a low mileage truck. or rebuilt the 4L60E, just put good parts in it not a stock rebuild.
I have a 2000 5.3L, and a 2007 5.3L, so I would get whatever I could find for a good price complete with low mileage. Just remember to get whatever you get complete or plan to pay premium for what you don't get. Wiring isn't cheap. The DBW can be programmed for response, the cable cannot, but any tuner can make adjustments. The DBW has some built in lag as it has no resistance...
I would use the stock pedal out of the donor truck, when I got my 07 5.3L, I got the wiring, engine complete with accessories, trans part of the fuel lines, manifolds and part of the exhaust and the brake and gas pedal.
I personally would use the plates, and the cheap ones work just as good. Many places make short headers that will work with the 4x4 app. I used street and performance. Long tubes are going to give you issues and remember, you get what you pay for.
I hear 5th gen Camaro manifold work without cutting as do the later truck manifolds.
If you are in a emmissions state you have to run cats, they don't hurt performance though.
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just thinking about this. but you need a computer for the 5.3 and you will need another for the 4l60e. why not get a motor and trans out of the same truck then you can use the complete wire harness instead of putting two together to make two different ones?
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Here's a little info on the different versions of the 5.3l. There are a few that you may want to stay away from like the LH6 with active fuel management (AFM). A lot of the added options can be turned off in the ECU like, AFM and Flexfuel. But say a newer engine with variable valve timing or phasing can not be turned off and would be difficult to use as a swap on a budget.
LM7
The Vortec 5300 LM7 (VIN code 8th digit "T") was introduced in 1999, and can be considered the "garden variety" version of the Generation III 5.3 liter V8's. The 1999 LM7 engine produced 270 hp (201 kW) and 315 lb·ft (427 N·m), 2000-2003 engines made 285 hp (213 kW) and 325 lb·ft (441 N·m). The 2004-2007 engines made 295 hp (220 kW) and 335 lb·ft (454 N·m), it has a cast iron block and aluminum heads.
LM7 applications:
2002–2005 Cadillac Escalade 2WD
2002–2006 Chevrolet Avalanche
2003–2007 Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
1999–2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
1999–2007 GMC Sierra 1500
2000–2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
2000–2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon
L59
The Vortec 5300 L59 (VIN code "Z") is a flexible fuel version of the LM7. The 2002-2003 made 285 hp (213 kW) and 320 lb·ft (434 N·m), while the 2004-2007 L59s made 295 hp (220 kW) and 335 lb·ft (454 N·m).
L59 applications:
2002–2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
2002–2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon
2002–2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
2002–2007 GMC Sierra 1500
LM4
The Vortec 5300 LM4 (VIN code "P") is an aluminum block version of the LM7, and had a short production life. The LM4s made 290 hp (216 kW) and 325 lb·ft (441 N·m), It should not be confused with the L33 described below.
LM4 applications:
2003–2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT
2003–2004 Isuzu Ascender
2004 GMC Envoy XL
2003–2004 Chevrolet SSR
2004 Buick Rainier
L33
The Vortec 5300 L33 (VIN code "B") is an aluminum block version of the LM7, and was referred to as the Vortec 5300 HO in marketing materials. How ever it should be noted that the L33 uses a flat top piston from the 4.8L instead of the standard dish piston found in the LM7. This increased the compression from 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. Also the L33 had a specific camshaft not shared with any other engine, with lobe lift of 7.2 mm, valve timing unknown. As a result power increased by 15 hp (11 kW), to 310 hp (230 kW) and 335 lb·ft (441 N·m). It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. Only 25% of trucks made in 2005 had the L33 engine.
L33 applications:
2005–2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD
2005–2007 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD
Generation IV
First introduced in 2005, the Generation IV Vortec 5300 engines share all the improvements and refinements found in other Generation IV engines. At present, four versions of the 5300 engine in production: 2 iron blocks (LY5 and LMG) and 4 aluminum blocks (LH6, LH8,LH9 and LC9). All versions feature Active Fuel Management except for the LH8, LH9, LMF.
LH6
The Vortec 5300 LH6 with Active Fuel Management replaced the LM4 for 2005, and was the first of the Generation IV small block V8 truck engines to go into production. The LH6 produced 300 hp (220 kW) and 330 lb·ft (447 N·m). It is the aluminum block counterpart to the LY5.
LH6 applications:
2005–2009 Chevrolet TrailBlazer including EXT (through 2006)
2005–2009 GMC Envoy Denali
2005–2006 GMC Envoy XL
2005 GMC Envoy XUV
2005–2007 Buick Rainier
2005–2009 Saab 9-7X
2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
2007-2009 GMC Sierra 1500
LY5
Introduced in 2007, the Vortec 5300 LY5 is the replacement for the LM7 Generation III engine. For SUV applications, it is rated at 320 hp (239 kW) and 340 lb·ft (461 N·m) of torque; for pickup truck applications, it is rated at 315–320 hp (235–239 kW) at 5200 rpm and 335–340 lb·ft (454–461 N·m) at 4000 rpm
LY5 applications:
2007–present Chevrolet Avalanche
2007–present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
2007–present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
2007–present Chevrolet Tahoe
2007–present GMC Sierra 1500
2007–present GMC Yukon
2007–present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton
LMG
The Vortec 5300 LMG is the flexible-fuel version of the LY5. Power and torque ratings for SUV and pickup truck applications are the same as each application's LY5 rating.
LMG applications:
2007–present Chevrolet Avalanche
2007–present Chevrolet Silverado 1500
2007–present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
2007–present Chevrolet Tahoe
2007–present GMC Sierra 1500
2007–present GMC Yukon
2007–present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton
LC9
The Vortec 5300 LC9 is the Flex-Fuel version of the LH6, and is found in 4WD models. SUV applications are rated at 320 hp (239 kW) @ 5400 rpm and 335 lb·ft (454 N·m) @ 4000 rpm of torque.[22] Pickup truck applications are rated at 315 hp (235 kW) @ 5300 rpm and 335 lb·ft (454 N·m) @ 4000 rpm of torque.[22]
LC9 applications:
2007–2013 Chevrolet Avalanche
2007–2013 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
2007–present Chevrolet Suburban 1/2 ton
2007–2013 GMC Sierra 1500
2007–present GMC Yukon XL 1/2 ton
LH8
The Vortec 5300 LH8 is a variant of the 5.3 L Gen IV small block V8 modified to fit in the engine bay of the GMT 345 SUV and GMT 355 trucks. It produces 300 hp (220 kW) at 5200 rpm and 320 lb·ft (434 N·m) at 4000 rpm. It has a displacement of 5,328 cc (325.1 cu in).[24]
LH8 applications:
2008–2010 Hummer H3 Alpha
2009–2012 Chevrolet Colorado/GMC
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One of the main reasons I posted all of that is so you don't get robbed by a seller saying it is something when it's not. But a lot of info on whats out there and there are more if you want bigger displacement. But that also involves higher prices on used engines.
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Oh and another issue that you will run into is the transfer case. 700-r4 and 4l60 are very similar but there are a lot of differences that will make the NP208 not mate like shaft spline count, tail housing bolt pattern. I would save the money of a 4l60e and use it to upgrade the 700. Plus you will need a $400-1000 computer to control the 4l60e after you figure out how to mate the t-case. However, the 4l60 tail end changed bolt patterns somewhere in the late 90's from a 4 bolt to 6 bolt. Np-241 would be about the only t-case that would mate to 4l60e and comes in passenger and driver side drop. Just know that the passenger drop versions are scarce and pricey when found.
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I was thinking the main ecu and harness ran both the engine and the trans on the later models. There are two different computers and harnesses for the engine and transmission? Will the 4l60e and np208 work together with an advance adapter 4 to 6 bolt conversion? Will my manual 4x4 shift lever work?
Thanks!
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lol...nevermind...Dumb question... I know the 4x4 manual lever will work...same t case..
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The ECM controls the shifts on all the early ones. Variable valve timing can be eliminated with the right cam and timing gear and timing cover. Displacement on demand can be eliminated but you have to pull the lifters and change the cam and disable it in the ECM.
The later model trucks have an opposite side drop and they are hard to find.. You will need a VSS sensor in the trans as GM put them in the Tcase. I recommend a call to your local tuner and see what he prefers in solving this.
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idk i didnt think the 4l60e came behind a 5.3. so you would need 2 computers. unless you can mod the 5.3 ecm for the 4l60(idk if you can) or you mod the 5.3 to run without a ecm
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4L60E and 65E came behind 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 for 1/2T, only the HD 6.0 came with an 4L80E
Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
captkaoscustoms.com
squarebody.biz
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dont know why but i have always thought it was out of production around 2000. nice to know
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In 2001 the 4L60E was updated to handle more load capacity and was designated the 4L65E. It was in use until 2010, but it is still in use today in some capacity.
The 700R4(4L60) was updated to the 4L60E then updated to the 4L65E (behind 6.0L 1/2 T trucks) and the 4L70E (trailblazer SS)
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So I'm concluding that there really isn't too much concern on what 5.3 I end up getting but I'm kinda feeling like I should be looking for an 02 or newer engine and one out of a truck is probably my best option. I'm still not sure what transmission I should be using. I would really like to do it about the easiest and cheapest route possible but yet I want to be happy with the end result. I would really like to reuse my np208 t case since I just rebuilt it. I also just had new custom driveshafts built to go with the lift in the truck so I would like to reuse them as well with out having to change or modify them. If I stuck with the 700r4 can I run that with a drive by wire or will I need to have a cable drivin throttle to work with the tv cable? I plan on using my stock gauges for a small period until I have more cash and I will upgrade to Dakota Digital VHX gauges. I have an aftermarket tach, water, volt, and oil gauges in the truck but stock fuel and speedo currently. Some of the local guys wanted between $1400 and $1700 to build me a good 700r4. Is this a good price?
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what ever engine you get grab the trans that comes with it. rather its a 5.3 with 4l65E or its a 5.7 with a 4l60E. this way you can use the O.E. computer and wires and be done. but do your research and find out what trans your 208 will bolt up to. then you have to add in the adapter cost for the 208. i wouldn't go to a junkyard and ask for a 5.3 then turn around and ask for a 4l60E, 4l60 or 700r4 cause it might not work with the computer noi matter how simular they are. i understand they may be close but the 700r4 is close to the 4l65E but they arnt the same
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The THM700 was renamed "4L60" (RPO MD8) following the new General Motors naming convention, when the electronic version, 4L60-E (RPO M30), was phased in. This happened in 1993 for trucks, vans, and SUVs, and 1994 for rear wheel drive passenger cars. In 1996, a bolt-on bell housing was phased in (along with a six-bolt tailhousing) for S-10 Trucks and S-10 Blazers and beginning in 1998 for all other applications. Beginning in 1998 a new 300mm torque converter with improved higher-capacity internals, 300mm style Input Shaft, and 300mm style pump was also introduced on LSX engine models. The 4L60-E is rated to handle up to 360 ft·lbf (488 N·m) of torque.
The 4L60-E family of transmissions use 2 shift solenoids, initially called Shift Solenoid A & Shift Solenoid B, later changed to comply with OBD II (On Board Diagnostics revision 2) regulations to 1-2 Shift Solenoid & 2-3 Shift solenoid. By activating and deactivating the solenoids in a predetermined pattern by the PCM, 4 distinct gear ratios can be achieved. The shift solenoid pattern, also sometimes referred to as solenoid firing order, is as follows;
Shift Solenoid Pattern
1-2 Solenoid 2-3 Solenoid
1st Gear On On
2nd Gear Off On
3rd Gear Off Off
4th Gear On Off
Applications:
Buick Rainier
Buick Roadmaster 1994–1996
Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Brougham 1991-1992
Cadillac Fleetwood 1994–1996
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Avalanche 2002-2008
Chevrolet S-10 Blazer
Chevrolet Camaro 1994–2002
Chevrolet Caprice 1994-96
Chevrolet Colorado
Chevrolet Corvette 1994–2004
Chevrolet Express
Chevrolet Impala SS 1994–1996
Chevrolet S-10
Chevrolet Silverado 1500-2500 (2500 with 6 bolt axle pattern)
Chevrolet SSR
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe
Chevrolet TrailBlazer
GMC Canyon
GMC Envoy
GMC Safari
GMC Savana
GMC Sierra 1500-2500 (2500 with 6 bolt axle pattern)
GMC Sonoma
GMC Yukon
GMC Yukon XL Denali
GMC vandura 1993-up
Holden Commodore (VR, VS, VT, VX, VY, VZ, VE) 1993–present
Holden Caprice (VR, VS, WH, WK and WL) 1994–2006
Oldsmobile Bravada
Pontiac Firebird 1994–2002
Pontiac GTO 2004-2006
An updated 4L60-E, the 4L65-E (RPO M32), was phased in the 2001 model year when coupled behind the 6.0 Vortec. Five-pinion front and rear planetaries, along with an additional 3/4 clutch allowing 7 clutches in the input housing and induction hardened input shaft assembly, were improved to withstand up to 380 ft·lbf (515 N·m) of torque.
Applications:
2005 C6 Corvette
Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Chevrolet Silverado SS
GMC Sierra Denali
GMC Yukon Denali
Hummer H2
Holden Crewman 2004 Only
Holden One Tonner 2004 Only
2005–2006 Pontiac GTO (M32, 3.46:1 final drive)
2002 Isuzu Axiom
Just a little more info on tranny's and what they cam in.
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I really appreciate the help guys! I'm struggling with what trans I want to use between rebuilding the 700r4 that I already have in my truck...or swapping in a 4l60e. I want to go the cheapest and easiest route but I don't want to be disappointed in my choice either. Does the advance trans adapter and the 4l60e increase the length of my current 700r4 configuration?....will I need to shorten or change my rear drive shaft? I'm pretty happy with how my current 700r4 works but I know it could use a rebuild and now is the time to do it when it's all apart for the 5.3 swap. I'm not looking to make the 5.3 a big power house either...it will remain in stock form aside from a cold air intake, Performance tune, and a free flowing exhaust. I really want it to try and get better mileage than my current 350 and fuel injection should help along with cold weather starts because I will be using the truck as my daily driver all year round in South Dakota. When I have talked about the swap to others i get some saying do yourself a favor and replace the 700r4 with a 4l60e and then theres the other half that seem to hate the 4l60e and rave about the 700r4. What would you guys do and what would be the cheaper route?...and how much cheaper?
Thanks!
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Cheap isn't always easy and easy isn't always cheap and this is one of those situations. I think that the total length if the 6l60e 26.7" long from the bell housing to the end of the adapter. So taking out the tape measure will be a must. It looks like you already have a little bit of a lift so it may not be much of an issue if you still have the factory length drive shaft. On the other hand the 700-r4 can easily be built to handle just as much power and possibly more with less money than the 4l60e and adapter and especially the computer that you may need to control it. But to keep it cheap will require some elbow grease... I have weighed this option over and over again and just in head ache alone, let alone money to convert to a different transmission, I completely intend to keep the 700-r4 and use a monster in a box to upgrade to my desired power levels of at least 500ftlbs. You will have to remember that the 4l60e is essentially the same as the 700-r4 up to '96 internally with the exception of the TV cable vice shift solenoids oh, and an extra clutch pack as well. So as far as handling the power you intended it will be the same. I would say that the major difference between the two is that the newer models (4l60) shifts smoother with the exception of the 1/2 shift which will always hit like a hammer because of power of the servo's clamping power. However, if you are not familiar with the way a smooth shift functions it may be a surprise to you that is is by allowing the clutch packs to slip causing more wear and tear on the tranny. So the question is really do you want to have or already possess the knowledge to rebuild the 700-r4 or risk needing new drive shaft and shelling out $$$$. Oh and when you do start assembling a part pile and actually putting them together, you know we expect pics...that's what we perceive as payment.
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Yeah thats part of my issue ...the truck has an 8" suspension lift and I just had brand new custom lenght drive shafts built front and rear. I don't really want to have to redue them and have that added cost.The adapter for the 4l60e was like $300 and on back order with no time frame of availability. What will I need to mate a 5.3 to my current 700r4 if I reuse that?
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if you push the trans back it will move rear drive shaft back then it might be too long but it will also make the front too short. i dont know how stupid it may be or even if it will work but could the motor and cross member be moved up a couple inches? this would keep the trans in the same location.
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tv cable (http://www.tvmadeez.com/)
A little help on tranny selection (http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1578668-5-3-ls-700r4.html)
6.0 swap with 700r4 (http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=393076)
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http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/712500a--ls-series-engine-to-th350700rflexplate-kit/
http://paceperformance.com/i-6509791-hphp3795-hughes-performance-ls-crank-adapter.html http://paceperformance.com/i-5138040-hphp4004x-hughes-sfi-approved-ls-engines-to-gm-th350-th400-700r4-transmissions.html
There are two things to choose from there may be more but you will have to search for them. The hughes adapter gives you more detai l
The new style Gen III / LS series engines (4.8, 5.3, 5.7 LS1, 6.0, 6.2) all have the same crank stick out which is .400” closer to the block than the old 350 V8. The Gen III / LS series crank bolt pattern is different than any other GM crank as to the bolt pattern on the flex plate. Only Gen III / LS series flexplates fit these engines!!!
Since a Gen III / LS series flexplate only fits a Gen III / LS series and the engine crank is recessed .400”. There are a few unique things about the torque converters that bolt to the flexplate. The spacing of the flexplate from the back of the block is the same as early GM blocks. The flexplate is dished out .400” to compensate for the crank. The differences come into play as to the bolt pattern of the torque converter to the flexplate and the snout length of the torque converter.
How do we adapt TH350, 700R4 to a Gen III / LS series engine? We offer a custom flexplate to fit a TH350, 700R4 and a crank spacer that compensates for the shorter engine crank.
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Well aside from maybe having to shorten a rear drive shaft it looks to me like the cost of mating a 700r4 and the cost of mating a 4l60e is about the same. Should I look to have a wire harness modified and the ecm tuned by someone who does these? I'm pretty good with wiring and have wired a lot of classic cars/trucks as I have a restoration business, however I haven't been down the LS avenue yet. I'm partially doing this to get one under my belt and have some experience with it in case I get the chance in the future. Our local tuner I crazy busy and very hard to get an appointment with and gets around that $500 to write a tune and dyno a vehicle. I've been installing a lot of aftermarket Efi sysemts like msd's atomic and holley street avenger efi which seem to be good units but they are expensive when you can get the factory stuff with the engine for so cheap so I want to give this a try. Where would your opinions conclude on the wiring, ecm, and transmission for final result?
Thanks
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I would rewire it yourself. It isn't that hard. Go to lt1swap.com and find you appropriate setup.
IF you plan on using the 700R4 currently in the truck, you have to use a cable setup, I think this would be the simplest solution in you case if you can get the appropriate adapter.
Once you get it ready then have someone tune it.
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The quotes I got for rebuilding my 700r4 were around that $1400-$1700 range. Does that sound decent? Would I need to rebuild a 4l60e if I got one that was low miles? How can I run my mechanical speedo with a 4l60e? And Am I understanding this right?....I will need a drive by wire 5.3 to run my 700r4 if I use that?
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I will need a drive by cable* system... to run the 700r4 with my 5.3???
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You will have to have a VSS style speedo to run the 4L60E as there is no mechanical connector.
You will need a cable throttle body for use with the 700R4.
As for rebuild, if you have the cash why not rebuild it. Unless it has really low miles like less than 40000, I would assume you will eventually need to rebuild it...
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afaik, yes
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I've started compiling parts and I got my RV fuel sending unit and 96-up fuel pump. Will this set up need a regulator? I will also be ordering a set of the dirty dingo motor mount plates. It seems like a drive by wire 5.3 and a 4l65E will most likely be the combo I try to put together in the truck if I can find a good low mileage combo. One question I have is wether I should be installing an electric fan setup in the truck or if a mechanical set-up is fine? I've been driving the truck as my daily driver this winter and the engine comes to temp good but even with the heater core free and clear the truck has a hard time keeping the cab warm with its mechanical fan set-up on the current 350.
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Yes you need a Wix C5 corvette fuel filter/regulator. I forget the part number but you can look it up on rockauto.
As for mount plates. I've heard of guys using the 1" setback plates without having to modify the driveshaft.
As for the fan, I'm going to use Ford Windstar dual fans for my swap. They're almost a bolt in.
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I think ive heard of the vett filter regulator being used. Will this be a returnless or return system? Are all the 5.3s set up the same or are they different throught the years? What year windstar are the fans from?
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The C5 filter has a built in pressure regulator and return.
I want to say the Windstar fan is from maybe a 96 or 98 van. I'll have to check but the cool thing about dual fans is that you can wire one up to come on with the a/c for additional cooling. Nothing wrong with a mechanical fan though if it fits.
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33737 Wix filter/regulator. The fans are from '95-98.
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I think ive heard of the vett filter regulator being used. Will this be a returnless or return system? Are all the 5.3s set up the same or are they different throught the years? What year windstar are the fans from?
this depends on the manifold/injector set up you will be using. the truck return line goes form the manifold back to the tank, the vette/Camaro runs from the filter back to the tank. last yr I picked up a 2003 5.3/4l60e/246 and rebuilt the engine and trans and sold the 246 and bought a 241. if you can it will be a lot easier to buy a complete set up with the harness and ECM.
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I guess I will know more for the fuel system once I get my engine. I ordered the dirty dingo mounts and they said that a truck oil pan will clear with a little persuasion. He also said I will need to do a/c relocation mounts... they had some but sounded kinda spendy...is this true and are there a good inexpensive set of mounts/brackets? Or are there's a good buy? The truck had a/c factory and I would like to have it again one day but it's not something I need right away however I know I will need to address it or find a way to run a belt in the meantime. Just wondering my options if I have any.
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The truck engines will have a regulator on the rail if it is a 5.3L, some 4.8L don't have one.
All 99-03 systems were return style with a 3/8" feed and a 5/16" return.
2004-up non Flex went to returnless setup with a 3/8" feed.
The only benefit of running the Vette filter/regulator is you don't have to run a long return line. The negative is the fuel will be "heated".
So, what ever you get make sure that you plan accordingly. You can convert a return style to non return but it requires a rail change.
The mechanical fan will work on the truck. On mine I am running a Perma Cool setup that bolts right in.
For the AC relocation I am using the one from Novak Conversions that mounts the original R4 compressor up high. It just has to be a Serpentine setup. All this info is in my R10 Driver Members Ride thread.
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Holley a/c brackets work with a cheaper and easier to find r4 compressor if you don't want to go sanden (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/08/pabubynu.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/08/5ameve7a.jpg)
plus they look factory.
The cool thing about the Holley brackets is if you need all the accessories, you can get all of the brackets for a little over $300. The good news is they use a cheap truck alt and R4 compressor. The bad news is you need a C5/C6 (expensive) p/s pump.
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The Novak ones work with R4's as I stated also. This is on my truck
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/serp_route.jpg)
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Both of those options look good but looks like they are more spendy than the dirty dingo set up. They sell there bracket assembly with tensioner for $249.99 and it works with a 508 sanden compressor that they sell for $169.99. Does this sound like a good route to go?
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If you want to use a Sanden compressor and want cheap, just get the Kwik Performance kit.
I can tell you this. I would find out where to find the tensioner when it goes bad and how much one is. The Novak setup allows the use of an off the shelf one that any parts store would carry. When selecting one for a driver that you plan to drive you might want to keep this in mind. Getting a one off one shipped to you when you are stranded (these eliminate the secondary AC belt, so you only have 1) wouldn't be fun. I think Kwik uses off the shelf also. The Dirty Dingo uses a manual adjuster I believe.
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I bought the Corvette accessory kit for space to the radiator
(http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0016/55/41/16225514_large.jpg)
I bought the Kwik kit and Sandeen compressor as well, IIRC I reused the original tensioner (maybe changed the pulley size) I would have to look in to it.
(http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0016/08/89/16258098_large.jpg)
(http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0016/54/54/16264545_large.jpg)
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My budget for this project is fairly tight although I do want to do it right. Just doing it more for function than looks....The truck sure could be a show truck but it's my daily driver and I have a lot of other projects tugging at my check book. I will probably go with the set up that makes the most sense at the lowest price I can get by with. What compressor/brackets would you recommend and will I need all the room I can get up front for radiator and fans? I was thinking of just reusing the stock radiator for now. I was also thinking of reusing the under dash a/c unit but I will need a new condenser and dryer. I suppose with mechanical fans I wouldn't need a binary or trinary switch... my concern with the mechanical fan is if I can keep the truck warm enough during the winter months...its current set up with the fan running all the time has a hard time heating the cab. I may also need to do a winter front. What temps are these 5.3 vortecs running at normally? That may solve some of my heating problem. It currently reaches 195-200 but when the thermostat opens cools to 160 in a second. Of course its been a little on the extreme cold side this winter in SD.
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you should be fine running the truck setup with the ac down low with no issues.
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You will HAVE to trim the frame rail a considerable amount or get some AC extensions from Docs Blocks to run the AC down low.
My setup in 20 degree weather runs fine and with the Thermostat set to 180 on the fan switch you will be turning the temp level down within 10 minutes as it is too hot.
There shouldn't be any reason to not use the current radiator and as for clearance the only reason to move it is because of the limited real estate down low.
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didn't know that you would have to trim for the compressor to fit. how much wider are the newer frames compared to the SBC
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I have to block my radiator to get the truck to hold 180 in the winter with a stock thermostat and mechanical fan
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I would rather spend the money for adapters/brackets to relocate the compressor than notch the frame...the frames on these trucks are far from overkill as it is. Will the truck exhaust manifolds clear without notching the frame? Manifolds are fine for me but I don't want to grind on the frame if I don't have to. If its near 30 degrees or above I'm ok and I have good heat but anything below that and it just runs too cool. I'm guessing I will need a winter front to block some air through the radiator to maintain a warm enough temp.
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http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1285081-1987-chevy-k10.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1583833-84-chevy-truck-lsx-swap-parts-list.html
http://www.ls1truck.com/forums/lsx-truck-conversions/5495-5-3l-lm7-into-obs-silverado.html
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I don't mind putting links here but I would like the info to be shared on here also instead of relying on outside links.
The newer model frames are much wider than ours..
The 2010 Camaro manifolds will fit without modifying the frame.
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I don't mind putting links here but I would like the info to be shared on here also instead of relying on outside links.
no worries.
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I have a set of 2012 camaro exhaust manifolds layin around in the shop...I assume they are the same for all the latest model camaros. I talked to my local tuner to get the ball rolling and see what we can do and he said he was able to bench flash/tune the computer on those and he suggested picking up one of the hybrid 5.3's at our local salvage yard. He said they won't come with a starter or alternator but they are good strong engines that I could pick up for around $900 with around 60-70k miles on them. I would have to get a separate trans though would this be a good route?
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I would look at a couple yards, I picked up the engine, trans, t/case, wiring, and PCM with the all the accessories on it including the starter.
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It's been a while but finally got started on the swap now that winter in SD is finally over. The old drive line is out and started rounding stuff up. I have a 06 5.3 hybrid engine on the way and will have a drive by wire computer and harness from another donor. I also ordered a tans adapt conversion for the 4l60E to work with the np208 tansfercase. I was wondering what I should use for the air filter or cold air intake so that the ducting routes nice in the engine bay. Does anyone have part numbers for radiator coolant hoses that fit the best. Has anyone done a cam swap with any good gains? Which cam?....I'm not looking for a lot and would like to maintain mileage if I were to do a cam. Will the stock column shift set up work with the 4l60e or will I need a different linkage or levers? Any tips or things I should be doing before or during the install ?? The 4l60e will be a fresh rebuild and the 5.3 has 79K on it.
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Also any suggestions on what I should run for fuel lines and connections from the tank to the 2006 5.3? Should I run braided line or would I be better off using the plastic tube stuff like the 06 would have come with?
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You can ideally use the factory air filter setup, or make your own.
The factory truck radiator hoses work if you are using a factory radiator out of the truck. Bottom may need a little trimming...
Cam, depends on what you are after. They love cams...
Column shift will work, if you specify you want the old style selector I believe, a 4L60E is a 700R4 that is electronically controlled.
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I hope to pick the engine up tomorrow. Any suggestions for fuel lines to use the makes the most sense bang for the buck? How about power steering lines....do they match up or do I need to make custom ones? Which radiator out of the truck do you mean? 84 or 2006? If the 2006 does it fit? As far as cams go I would be looking for some power and torque gains but nothing radical. My goal is to make the most power and torque without losing gas mileage over stock and still be running on pump gas...87 or 89 octane. I have too many vehicles that need to run premium and just want this one to be a good daily driver but if I can improve it's output with a few little tweaks that would be great.
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earl's has a factory fuel system push fit adapter to a/n allowing you to go braid steel or aluminum line to your fuel tank,then adapt to the ls fuel rails.here the part number http://www.holley.com/AT991966ERL.asp
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Those connectors are nice! I guess on the cam topic I am more or less not wanting to spend a ton to do it. If there is a good cam that does a good bank for the buck I would probably do it. I just don't want to get a crazy lift or duration that turns into needing to change out valve springs, lifters, pushrods, etc.... Unless there is a budget setup... the work is easy but I don't have a lot of cash to spend on it right now. I would love a lumpy idle and the power it would probably make but it's a 4x4 daily driver and I'm trying to get some gas mileage out of it.
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All of this is in my build thread http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=12120 , but...
The radiator out of the current truck 86.
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/R10drvr_98.jpg)
Power steering bolts up, there is only one hose, the other one clamps on, Use the lines from the pump.
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/PS_comp.jpg)
For the cam, I would leave it alone if you are after gas mileage.
For fuel lines, I would use braided line just measure how much you need to make it to the frame lines.
-6 AN braided Fuel line,
You will need fittings for the rail: GM quick connect to -6AN adapters for the Intake lines
Fittings for the -6 back to frame lines: 14mm/16mm O-ring to -6AN adapters
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/fuellines.jpg)
I got all my stuff from Pure Choice Motorsports
And you can either use EFI clamps and EFI flex hose for the tank
OR you can cut off the barb end of the sending unit tube and adapt them to -6 AN and run braided from the tank to the rest.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-165106erl This is 3/8" you will need 5/16" also...
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Thanks Chris, I've been through the build thread a few times just didn't pick all of this up so thanks for your patience. As for the fuel lines with the 06 5.3 will I be running a return line? I see you said I will also be needing 5/16 line. Just unfamiliar with these engines and was thinking that on these years I read they didn't have a return.
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The 06 would be return less. But that just means a line isn't coming from the intake. For that you need a regulator filter like what came on a Corvette. It will still have a feed and return.
Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
captkaoscustoms.com
squarebody.biz
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ok I will need the vette filter regulator. What year was that from again? I just picked up the engine today and getting the trans tomorrow. Does the pump run constant keyed or will the computer control it? I'm guessing with the vette set up it runs full time when key is on? Also I didn't get an air box but made sure to get a MAF sensor....where do these mount on the intake...how far from the throttle body? Just wondering incase I make my own intake set up
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99-up(04)
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=425/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd425.htm
The ECM turns on the pump and it runs all the time
The MAF should be about 6" away with straight section before and after.
Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
captkaoscustoms.com
squarebody.biz
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I decided since AN fittings and braided lines can get pretty spendy I will be doing them in the factory connectors and plastic tubing for a try. I got a complete oe fuel line kit and the corvette filter regulator. I am wondering what I do with the three lines coming off the sending unit. I understand the one coming off the pump will go through the regulator filter and to the fuel rail. The other will be the return from the regulator. Do I plug or vent the third? The truck had dual tanks but I will only be running a drivers side tank. Also I have the Dakota digital VHX gauges and I was wondering if the stock oil and water senders will work with these. The water temp sender is pretty easy to change so thats not a problem but the oil sender is a little tougher to get at and I wish I would have swapped that out before I set the motor in the truck. :(
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I think I figured out my sending unit dilemma out. I tapped the oil cooler block off above the oil filter and put my oil sender there. I also installed the water temp sender in the coolant line fitting coming from the block on the rear passenger side. I'm not sure what this is normally used for but this seemed like a good spot for it. Also does anyone know what the lines running from the front of each head and running together under the throttle body are? It is a small line that appears to be coolant. Just wondering what I should do with it.
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The oil sender could have went to the back of the block behind the intake.
The line at the front is the steam line it should be routed to the radiator.
Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
captkaoscustoms.com
squarebody.biz
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I set the engine in and am getting the transmission ready to bolt up to it. I have the advance adapters 4l60e to np208 conversion however the 4l60e has the stock shaft in it and the speed sender pickup is a touch large on the shaft and I can't get it to tighten down on it. Anyone have a good solution without having to tear the trans apart and installing a 700 shaft in it? I was thinking maybe some shim stock?
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Now that I think about it I have a cable ran speedo off my transfer case and I should be able to use the dakota digital sender there and I wouldn't need the speed sensor pickup on the shaft if I'm right?
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Yup, your speedo on a 4x4 goes to the t-case.
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yeah i confirmed with tci that their tcu will work with the dakota speed sensor their response was
"That particular speed sensor should work with our unit. For most diesel applications we generally recommend that you would pull the tach signal from the negative side of the alternator." now that is for the tcu idk about stock ecm
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Well I have the engine/transmission/ and transfer case bolted in place. I have the engine set back all the way on the mounts and it just clears the front cross brace and sits just in front of the firewall. It looks like my front slip drive shaft will just make it without modification but the rear only has a bout a 1/2 to 5/8" clearance from bottoming out so I may need to shorten it some....I will check with the drive shaft shop tomorrow and see what they suggest. I'm not sure yet If I can make my column shift work from the 700r4 to the 4l60e but i may have to use a lokar shift linkage kit...has anyone used one? I think I will also need a lokar flexible dipstick. What are people using for a dipstick on these? Still not sure what I want to use for a radiator and fan set up. Anyone have opinions on what I should use? I have been looking at a champion set up and maybe some 14" fans or possibly the windstar set up.
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Does anyone know the best way to pull vacuum on my 06 5.3. It doesn't look like my intake supported a port in back for power brakes. It must have had hyrdroboost. Can I use the evap purge valve line coming off the solenoid up front by the throttle body? Will it support enough vacuum? I also need vacuum for my heater control valve inside...could I tea that in also?
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Back of the intake is a plug. Just run to the dealership and tell them you need the fitting for the booster hose that goes in the intake. I did this to my R10.. It came out of a 1T with Hydroboost.
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I got that fitting part figured out.. is that the only part I need..just the barb fitting in place of the plug? Also what do I need to do with the EVAP purge valve line?
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That is all you need just hook your booster line to it.
I block off the EVAP. of course I put an IAT sensor in mine...
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Does anyone have a good idea for a wiring guide for the wiring in my 84 chevy...I need to know what wires do what to tap into with the wiring from the 5.3 harness. I would like to tie into the A/C, cruise, and some others. Of course as many of these trucks have been tinkered with over the years some of the wires are no longer being used and just laying in the fender wells.
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Use the 1983 Wiring Manual (http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/techinfo/7387CKMans//Wiring/ST386_83_1983_GM_Wiring_Manual_CK_P_G_10_to_30_and_ST.pdf) and the 1984 Custom Cruise III Manual (http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/techinfo/7387CKMans//Training/1984%20CRUISE%20III_opt.pdf).
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I will try and sort through some of those...it looks like fun!...lol...just incase someone can point me in the right direction quickly I will ask about the ones I need. Looking for the cruise wires...I have them located on my 5.3 ls harness but not sure which ones are which under the hood..or what the connector looks like. I also was wondering about the neutral safety switch and the reverse light wires from my 700r4 trans harness...what wires are what and needed? And the last thing is what wires go to where for my 87 r/v efi sending unit. I have a gray, purple, and black wire coming off it and I can assume that black would be ground. Which wire goes to my fuel gauge and what wire is the pump power?
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I have my truck up and running however I am sorting out a few issues. I wasn't able to install the trans adapt reluctor ring for the VSS signal in my 4l60e because the output shaft is different than the 700r4 and I wasn't able to mount it. I am pulling my speedometer input off the np208 transfer case for the dakota digital vhx gauges with the dakota SEN-01-128 sender. Would I be able to pull my VSS signal for my ecm with that sender also? I am also getting a check engine light with no codes that interrupts my throttle. I have drive by wire.....and as soon as I clear codes the throttle works but quickly throws the check engine light on and my throttle quits again. Any ideas what would be going on there?
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I kind of hope you can use the Dakota sensor for the ecm I know you can for the tcus from tci. I have another TCU from a 91 6.5 so it also needs a signal but haven't really looked on what it would need to work
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After a few different senders 16K ppm, that comes with the dakota digital gauges. a 128k ppm, and an 8k ppm, the only one that would register speed on the scanner and allow the transmission to shift was the 8k ppm sender. However the shift is really late and only registers a few mph on a obd2 scanner. Does this sound right? Does the rest need to be in the tune to get it closer and so it will want to shift before 4k rpm?
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i know with my digital dash, i have to be going something like 5 mph for it to even start suggesting a speed. idk if thats your problem or not. whats the speed the trans is shifting at?
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I got it to shift with the 128k ppm generator sender today. The problem I was having before is that I was tapping into my speedometer sender for the vss signal and the sender gets a 5 volt power normally from the dakota digital control box for the 16K ppm sender originally for the gauges. The 128k ppm generator needed 12V to function properly and I will now have to get my speedometer signal from my ls computer. It was a lot of messing around but it does shift now. The dakota digital gauge should pick up the vss signal out from the computer no problem. Now If I can get the check engine light that keeps coming on figured out so it stops cutting out my dbw throttle I should be set.
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so you where tapping into the 16k (dakota) sensor for your tcu?
and it wont work in that order?
you have to get the 128k for the tcu then tap into the ecu for the dakota dash ?
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Correct....the 16k sender would only work for the speedo....the computer never registered anything. I am now using the 128K sender for the computer and using the speedo wire out of the computer to run my dakota digital speedo.
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The truck is up running and driving ...just a few things to work out and it should be good to go. A little tip for anyone doing one of these drive by wire ls swaps........ The computer and throttle pedal assembly including the TAC module had been changed in 2006 and these parts are not compatible with previous model years. You will have problems with the throttle not working and a check engine light will come on with a code. I had a 2006 throttle assembly and a 2005 PCM and my throttle would not function. I was able to re program the PCM with 2006 PCM programming and everything works as it should. The computer are the same but the programing is different in these years so to save you money make sure all the year items match up. I had the computer tuned the first time to the 05 version for $150 and then had to retune it to a 2006 and it cost me an additional 2 credits..($100).
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ok flash back.... but im having problems with my dash lights working in my 91 v3500. i have emailed dakota digital about taking the digital dash out of my 79 and putting it in my 91 with the 4l80e. but my question maybe someone can answer it on here is can the digital dash get the speed from the oem electric speed sensor on the trans? meaning if i tap into the wires can the sensor feed both my dash and ecu/tcu?
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Yes it should work for you. I have been down a few avenues regarding this and I am about 99% sure. On my truck I am feeding my computer its signal with one of there 128k senders and using their sgi5 multiplier/divider box to fine tune the signal and then taking the factory speedo wire from the computer to supply the speed signal to my gauges. The dakota digital gauges have a wide range of speed signals they will work on.
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You should be able to send the signal to both.