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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Stewart G Griffin on May 28, 2007, 09:04:40 AM
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Alright, let's forget about all that 8cyl to 4 stuff and all that hotrodding stuff; I am going to put the pickup back in operation; It runs pretty much ok, but i accidently let the tags expire so it's been sitting for a few months, "sort of." Plus the fact that i was really busy working 2 jobs and i really didn't have the money because, i feel, that i needed to set up the plug wires where they wouldn't be too close to the exhaust manifolds or each other.
You may or may not know that i had the engine out of the truck and put in a 305 AND THEN A FEW DAYS LATER put the 350 back in. This was last summer. And this was due to total and complete ignorance; What had happened was i got complete dual exhaust and there was white cloudy smoke coming out of the right side pipe only. It turned out that the vacuum modulator thing on the trans was leaking and allowing trans fluid into the engine where it was burnt up----hence the white, puffy smoke. But i didn't know that at the time so i swapped engines only to have the same results with the 305. Then i took the right head off the 350 thinking the head gasket was bad---it wasn't. By the way the engine looked real clean.
It was freaky; I ran the engine on the stand-no problems. Put it back in the truck and "it" started smoking again on the right side.
If you look at a quadrajet manifold, the fitting for the vaccum signal to the vac modulator on the transmission is on the right side/passenger side near ports for cyls 6 and 8----thus explaining why the smoke was only coming out the right side pipe.
ANYWAYSin swapping the motors (twice!!!) i, of course, had to take the waterpump pulley off. And i think in doing so, i may have slightly warped the edges of it or something because now it squeaks LIKE heck.
What i did was to use those rubber, strap-type "wrenches" to hold the pulley still while i undid the 4 nuts off of the pump flange.
This sucker squeaks BAD. I've got flowmaster 40's on and you can hear the squeaking WAY ABOVE THAT.
Now, first off:
1) Is there a way to fix this? I have used some of the belt spray that you can get at the parts store but it doesn't really completely solve the problem.
2) i realize that i may have to buy another pulley which is not a big deal. But, if so what is the best/correct way to remove/install a water pump pulley?
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I wanted to bother you again with this topic because i know that someone has got to know about it.
Yes, i'm really going to put the truck back in operation!
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i dont know for sure but i would try a new belt 1st
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The pulley just rests on the pilot and over the studs. Remove the belt and make sure it's fully seated and runs concentric. If it does just replace the belt.
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To answer the question about how to remove the pulley. Loosen the nuts on the water pump pulley before you loosen any belts. The belts should hold it in place.
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You shouldn't have to remove your radiator or anything, unless you have a shroud in place, to remove your four nuts to remove the pulley.
(http://www.delbridge.net/wp.jpg)
Just take it off and lay it on a straight, flat surface to see if it is indeed warped. I don't know why it would squeak. Go to the trusty old salvage yard and get another, or , place a request in the "parts wanted" section of this forum, i am sure some of us have many old spare parts laying around.
Are you sure the bearings in the water pump aren't shot? Will the fan turn freely without squeaking when you take the belt off?
If you want the remove the nuts without the pulley turning, just do what i do, put a long screw driver between two of the bolt studs and hold it there...should keep the pump from turning while you remove one nut at a time, then change up where the screwdriver is.
(http://www.delbridge.net/wp2.jpg)
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The water pump is brand new. Do you think this might be causing it?
And i forgot to post that i will check the tightness of all belts; I had to remove the P/S pump to set the timing.
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Were all of the accessories on it when you took it out? Could be an alignment problem. Did you change any of the ps, alt brackets?
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I have seen rebuilt water pumps where the shaft is not pressed correctly causing alignment issues with the pulleys which can cause the squealing. Just a thought.
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first off do you have enough tension on the belts? loose belts squeak quite a bit. I've bent many pully and never had them squeak from being bent.
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OK, it turns out that the power steering belt (P/S to crank only belt, not the crank, P/S, A/C belt) is loose. I don't know how i missed that.
Anyways, does anyone have a diagram of the power steering pump because i can't get it to move. I think there are 4 bolts?
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There is a slot on the front where it bolts to the water pump and one on the back of the power steering bracket.
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Yeah i missed the one on the back. i got it to move now.
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Ok, it turns out that the belt looseness was not the problem.
Basically what is happening is when i first start it up, it will squeak. This is not a rhythimic chirping; This a continuous screech like if you could imagine a blackboard about a quarter mile long and someone is dragging their nails across it or something.
Then after about a minute or two it will stop. And it doesn't matter if the engine is warm or cold or not; I could shut it off after 1/2 drive, immediately start it up again and it will do the same thing----for about a minute or so.
Again, the water pump is a new Bosch unit but everything else is the same since i got the truck.
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Is it connected to engine rpm? In other words, if the engine revs up, does the noise get higher?
Possible alternator bearings? I'd start by taking belts off and manually spin some of these things, like the ps pump, alt, H2O pump, etc...
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your belts either need to be replaced or need to be tighter still.
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What does the belt look like? How old/new is it?
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1) yes, it is/was connected to rpm---the higher the rev the more intense, louder and slightly higher pitch.
2) the belt is/was pretty tight. I could not turn the alternator by hand with the belt in place. And, the belt had, at most, 1/8 inch deflection. If that much. So, i don't know. It's going to be pretty hard to make it even tighter.
3) The belt looks ok. I do not know how old/new it is. But i've had the truck about 1yr.
4) UPDATE 10PM:
I took the alt belt off and started it up and it ran just fine no noise whatsoever.
I am leaning towards the alternator making the noise and needing replacement.
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I have never heard of an alternator you could not turn manually with your hand--the alt should spin very freely.
Alt bearings bad!
Replace the alt and replace the belt for the alt since it was probably spinning ON the pulley rather than spinning the pulley--wearing it out prematurley.
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UPDATE:
i thought it was the alternator too, but it turns out it was not the problem. What else, besides belts, could the bad sqawking be?
i'm thinking it could be the fan clutch? Because, again, it goes for about 1 min or two then completely disapears.
This is bad to the point where i can't drive it to work because i leave at 5:30 am and i don't want to disturb the neighbors because i'm a considerate neighbor. i have another car, so don't worry about that for now.
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If you took the belt off and it stopped, that is the problem. Replace the belt and check the Alternator pulley...
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You're probably right; i'll take the belt off and try again.
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UPDATE:
OK, it is the belt; Thanks everyone for helping.
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UPDATE:
i decided that since the belt is otherwise ok----noisy but gets the job done, that i would put soap on it and replace it and the other belts and hoses in 10,000 miles.
The soap trick works great.
Thank you to the cheapskate that came up with that one.
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PULLEYS REVISITED; PT.2
Basically, the soap trick worked great for a few weeks, but not anymore. The squealing can occur at anytime now and usually for long stretches at a time, although it usually doesn't do it at idle.
While at the chevy dealer on friday, picking up a part, i overheard a service mgr saying that if you work the pulley(s) with a wire brush, this could take care of the problem?
1) Have you heard of such a procedure?
2) Any other suggestions? This is unacceptably loud.
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i have tried cleaning both the pulleys and the belt on my mothers tracker. it is a very temporary fix. i ended up getting a new belt the next day.
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Once a belt is contaminated or glazed it needs to be replaced. You can clean it, lube it, dress it all you want but it will still squeak especially serpentine belts.
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Stewart, I want to commend you on your honesty,many people are "to good" to admit when they do something not so bright. Good for you, being a man & telling it how it is. It can be dumbfounding at times when, after it's over you stop & think "Where did I get off track? How could I have prevented this? How can I prevent this in the future? We ALL have done things were not so proud of. I hope others will read this & learn from it. I remember reading, I believe it was Vile mentioned this to someone not long ago. One thing to add to your belt problem. I have had pulleys sit while working on a project & get SLIGHTLY rusty (my motorhome has done it over a period of sitting also) nothing short of taking it off & sanding it with 150 grit or so will keep it from squealing. Sometimes only on initial start-up, maybe only when you hit the gas, ect. You will get it figured out. Lorne
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Alright, it really was the belt; The noise was truely unacceptable, so upon closer inspection, i noticed that some of the "cogs" were missing (this was a dayco belt).
i got a Gates 7435--this goes on the water pump pulley, crankshaft pulley and the alternator pulley with no A.I.R. pump, for $11.99 at a local parts store.
It was very tight, and i had to actually undo both alternator bolts so i could actually move the alternator downwards to get the belt on.
Absolutely no noise!
i noticed that the gates belt is a little wider than the dayco. Maybe this had something to do with the noise. And i'm amazed that a relatively small rubber belt could make such a loud racket.
My thoughts:
1) Gates rules.
2) Dayco, not so good.