73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 4 Wheel Drives => Topic started by: Shawn0331 on February 11, 2012, 06:12:30 PM
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1987 5.7 V10 Silverado
The tires had a little wobble to them when I lifted the truck up today so I took the truck to Les Schwab today to see what they could find.
Turns out the ball joints are bad (driver's side is really bad) and both sides need to be replaced along with the brakes (almost gone).
They want $1,157.24 after labor and tax. i had to laugh.
I'd rather do this on my own, but have never done ball joints before.
Thoughts?
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Depending on their labor rate that is probably figuring 7 to 12 hours labor. That's not out of the ball park. Did that include a front end alignment?
Your proably looking at between $200 to $400 or more in parts, depending if you need rotors, and calipers, etc.
In order to do ball joints you have to completely disassemble the hubs, spindles, and pull the axles. While your there you might as well repack the wheel bearings, clean and grease the hubs. You will need new grease seals to retain the grease in the back side of the rotor.
Also unless the axle joints are in A#1 shape you might think about doing them too while you have them out.
As far as ball joints you will need a pickle fork, ball joint press, and the correct adaptors to R&R them. A good solid work bench with a vise is also helpfull. Air impact gun also makes things alot easier too. You might need heat to get the joints out of the axle as well. You will also need to remove the tie rods ends without damaging them, or plan on installing new ones. Once the new ball joints are reinstalled then its just a matter of reassembling everything with new brake parts.
You should get a front end alignment as well.
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The estimate did include alignment and replacing the rotors.
Looks like I'll be saving my pennies for a little while.
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Depending on their labor rate that is probably figuring 7 to 12 hours labor. That's not out of the ball park. Did that include a front end alignment?
Your proably looking at between $200 to $400 or more in parts, depending if you need rotors, and calipers, etc.
In order to do ball joints you have to completely disassemble the hubs, spindles, and pull the axles. While your there you might as well repack the wheel bearings, clean and grease the hubs. You will need new grease seals to retain the grease in the back side of the rotor.
Also unless the axle joints are in A#1 shape you might think about doing them too while you have them out.
As far as ball joints you will need a pickle fork, ball joint press, and the correct adaptors to R&R them. A good solid work bench with a vise is also helpfull. Air impact gun also makes things alot easier too. You might need heat to get the joints out of the axle as well. You will also need to remove the tie rods ends without damaging them, or plan on installing new ones. Once the new ball joints are reinstalled then its just a matter of reassembling everything with new brake parts.
You should get a front end alignment as well.
When I rebuilt my front Dana 44 and rear 12 bolt 5 months ago, I spent $550.00 on the front end. Granted, that I replaced everything with new, not one thing outside or inside is used (except ring and pinion, I had them reset with new bearings and seals, not included in $550.00 of course), so you could do it for around $300.00 or less depending on the quality of parts and price you find them.
Blazin is right, since you have to tear it apart, take your time and clean everything and inspect and replace as necessary. You will save time and money by doing it now instead of later.
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Do it yourself...it is not hard at all I just finished my '87 v10 a few weeks ago. I replaced all ball joints, inner and outer bearings, shaft seals and while I had it apart i replaced the u-joints..painted the axle black, knuckels, swaybar and u-bolts blue to match the truck, replaced tie rod and ends and drag link and put polly bushings all the way around. I ordered all my parts except the stub shaft seals from Truck and everything went in perfectly. It is really easy and the only major tools you will need are a ball joint removal tool which i reccomend doing "loan-a-tool" from oreilys(they give you all your money back when you return the tool) and snap ring pliers. Heck I will walk you through it if you want.
Just becareful if you take the axle out from under the truck as i did. I had a ubolt hit my tooth when i was re-enstalling it and it hit my tooth so hard that now i have a fake one ;)!!!
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Oh and i think with all the part i replaced i speng bout $400 bu only bc i wanted to replace it since it was all stock and im getting relocated to Norfolk, va in a few months.
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Do it yourself...it is not hard at all I just finished my '87 v10 a few weeks ago. I replaced all ball joints, inner and outer bearings, shaft seals and while I had it apart i replaced the u-joints..painted the axle black, knuckels, swaybar and u-bolts blue to match the truck, replaced tie rod and ends and drag link and put polly bushings all the way around. I ordered all my parts except the stub shaft seals from Truck and everything went in perfectly. It is really easy and the only major tools you will need are a ball joint removal tool which i reccomend doing "loan-a-tool" from oreilys(they give you all your money back when you return the tool) and snap ring pliers. Heck I will walk you through it if you want.
Just becareful if you take the axle out from under the truck as i did. I had a ubolt hit my tooth when i was re-enstalling it and it hit my tooth so hard that now i have a fake one ;)!!!
Sounds good to me. Hoping to get around to it next Friday/Saturday.
Think you could give me a list of parts and tools needed? I want to make sure I grab all the right stuff before I start a thing.
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Don't forget to find/buy/borrow the spanner socket for the upper ball joint preload nut. The cheapest I could find locally was $30+. And a 4WD socket for the ka-chiggy thing there... You guys know what I'm talking about.
And buy a shop manual. I did my balljoints, rotors, calipers, ujoints, bearings, tie rods, seals, etc. It wasn't bad at all. I had a few bumps in the road, re-did things more than once, cursed a lot. But I did it on my own, and now I feel confident I could fix anything in the front end, if I broke it on the trail.
Most important, give yourself enough time to do it. Triple what you're thinking in your head...
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Any idea where I can get a shop manual for a reasonable price?
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I just bought a crappy chilton one from the box top auto parts stores. They're good enough to get you through this job.
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Ball joint aren't too awful to replace. The main issue is that you have to remove so many pieces to replace the ball joints that you probably should assess everything else while you're into it. Ever hear the phrase "In for a penny, in for a pound"... If you need to replace any other parts, such as axle shaft U-joints, differential bearings and seals, spindle seals; then now would be the ideal time to do it.
Since you're going to be fairly deep into pulling the front end apart, do you know the condition of the differential bearings, ring/pinion and seals? As you'd need to have all the same stuff apart to do the ball joints, it might be a time/money saver to R/R the differential (if necessary). Are you planning on replacing the tie rod and drag link? What condition are the leaf spring and stabilizer bar bushings?
Think you could give me a list of parts and tools needed? I want to make sure I grab all the right stuff before I start a thing.
As for the parts to do the job, this is a list off the top of my head to do the suspension and brakes (with my personal preferences added):
Front brake rotor (Name brand. Whatever you buy get a U.S.A made rotor)
Front brake pads (name brand; Wagner or Raybestos)
Front brake caliper (if necessary; it's been a while since I had to do this, but you used to be able to get loaded calipers w/pads. Raybestos used to do this)
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Front caliper rebuild kit (the front calipers are very simple and if it just needs seals you can rebuild them yourself for really cheap)
Front brake hose (Wagner or Raybestos; if your hoses are from 1987 then they're 25 years old this year)
Front Wheel Bearings Inner & Outer (I prefer Timken; sometimes you can save on them by going to a bearing supply store)
Front Wheel Seal (National; also check for them at a bearing supply)
Front Axle Shaft/Spindle Bearing, Oil Seal, Thrust Washer & Dust Seal (I can't recall the brand. Goes inside spindle to seal axle spindle to front axle shaft)
Front Axle U-Joint (Dana/Spicer)
Upper Ball Joint (Moog; they make one with a side mounted grease zerk which allows you to grease the upper ball joint. Otherwise greasing the ball joint can be a chore).
Lower Ball Joint (Moog)
Tie Rod (Moog)
Outer Tie Rod end (Moog)
Drag Link Ends (Moog)
Sway Bar bushings (Energy Suspension Polyurethane)
Spring Bushings (Energy Suspension Polyurethane)
Shocks (Gabriel or Monroe if no lift kit)
Front Steering Stabilizer (attaches to tie rod; Gabriel or Monroe)
Tools to do the job (also from the top of my head):
Socket set and ratchet
Open/Box end wrenches
Line Wrenches (especially needed if you're going to change the front rubber brake hoses)
Snap Ring Pliers ( to remove snap ring on the end of the axle shaft)
Hub retaining Nut Socket (to remove Hub retaining nuts from spindle
Needle Nose and Regular Pliers ( to remove cotter pins)
Breaker Bar (can help lend some additional torque to get stubborn bolts/nuts moving)
Torque Wrench (if you're going to torque everything back to specs)
Dead Blow Hammer (to persuade spindle to free itself from the steering knuckle)
5 lb Hammer (to rap on axle tube ears to assist with removing knuckle/ball joint assembly from axle tube)
Allen Wrench set (to remove allen screws on lockout hub)
Brake Caliper Hex Head Socket (don't remember the size; to remove brake caliper bolt - can use appropriately sized allen wrench)
Grease gun
Grease (Hi-temp disc brake grease for wheel bearings and hub parts)
Anti-sieze (for any bolts that are exposed to the elements that you don't want to seize up)
WD-40/PB Blaster (to assist with loosening any seized nuts or bolts)
Bearing Grease Packer (helps to pack wheel bearings and keep your hands a bit cleaner)
Nitrile Gloves (also helps keep your hands clean)
Spray Brake Cleaner (to clean the rotor of oils prior to installing brake pads)
Rags/paper towels (self explanatory)
Jack and Jack Stands (Safety first - do it right and don't use bricks, cinder blocks, etc.)
Ball joint installation/removal tool (you can rent the tool or have a machine shop press them for you)
Tie rod removal tool (you can also rent this tool at most part stores; I think it works better than a pickle fork)
Fish scale (recommended by the GM service manual to check ball joint adjustment. 25 lbs to pull the knuckle to the left or right w/o the tie rod attached. The preload sleeve in the axle tube will need to be adjusted if out of spec.)
Bearing Race/Seal installation tool kit (really useful for installing bearing races, bearings and seals squarely into or onto their respective bore)
Brake Caliper Bolt Lubricant ( for lubing the brake caliper bolt)
Brake Pad Anti-squeak /spray adhesive (optional stuff to make sure the brake pads don't rattle on the caliper)
Upper Ball Joint Adjusting Sleeve Spanner Socket (used to loosen/tighten the upper ball joint adjusting sleeve to properly torque the upper ball joint prior to installing and torquing the upper ball joint nut)
Chilton's Repair Manual or 1987 GM truck service manual (Chilton's from the parts stores, GM manual from swap meets, ebay, book sellers, etc)
I'm sure I forgot something, but I think this is a pretty complete list for the job. It should go pretty smooth if you can get a shop manual and read through the steps a few times, look at the various diagrams and be familiar with the process before you disassemble the front end.
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Good suggestions all.
I bought my ball joints from a drivetrain specialty shop. The shop told me to bring the knuckles in when I bought the ball joints and they would install them w/o charge. Only took them ~ 10 minutes. Consider doing likewise so you don't have to buy or borrow the tools to replace the ball joints themselves. That in itself will save you some time and time is money, IMO. The only things I bought were a spindle nut socket, the adjuster sleeve socket (for the upper ball joint), and seal drivers 'cause I anticipated using them again. Shop around, the spindle nut socket and adjuster sleeve socket should cost ~ $20 each.
There was nothing wrong w/ my r & p, so I just cleaned it out w/ a little kerosene or brake cleaner (can't remember which) put the cover back on and refilled w/ the proper gear oil.
Rusty
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Don't worry about a shop manual because in order to find one that gives u details on the actual break down of the axle will be expensive. Pics are what will help you the most. Beasti_3 did a write up with pics. i will find it to save you search time and post it here so you can research a lil more.
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Here is the post from beasti
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,20739.msg169210.html#msg169210
Here's another site that may shed some light for you
http://www.398hbx.com/home/gm-10-bolt-8-5-front-axle-rebuild
Unless you find a manual specific to corporate axles thats cheap these should help you just as much.
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Here is the post from beasti
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,20739.msg169210.html#msg169210
Here's another site that may shed some light for you
http://www.398hbx.com/home/gm-10-bolt-8-5-front-axle-rebuild
Unless you find a manual specific to corporate axles thats cheap these should help you just as much.
GREAT links, thanks. I'm almost done with the driver's side now. Took a while to figure it all out. The passenger side should go a lot quicker.
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Update:
Took the knuckle to Les Schwab for them to try and take off the steering control arm. No way I can get that thing to move. Tried PB Blaster & 3lb hammer. Guy at the shop is trying heat.
Taking time to clean stuff up now while I wait.
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I freaking hate those cone washers... I brought mine to a shop, too. Had to torch them and beat them with a sledge.
Any reason why you're separating them? The washers and nuts are NOT re-useable. And they're not cheap either... I wish I just left mine together. I can't remember why I separated them anyways... well live and learn.
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I freaking hate those cone washers... I brought mine to a shop, too. Had to torch them and beat them with a sledge.
Any reason why you're separating them? The washers and nuts are NOT re-useable. And they're not cheap either... I wish I just left mine together. I can't remember why I separated them anyways... well live and learn.
I couldn't figure out how to press the ball joint back in with it on there. Using a rented ball joint press from O'Reilly.
Now I have another problem...
While putting the nut back on the lower ball joint, the nut doesn't seem to be tightening past finger tight. The ball stud turns with the nut. Help???
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Figured it out.
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I had to take the steering arm off too but i beat it into submission... Do you have the auto locking hubs :o as well? Or have you already replaced them with manual hubs?
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It came with manual Warn hubs when I bought it.
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Rust is what causes the cones to stick. When you put it back together, put some grease in there and hopefully that will help if you ever have to take the arm off again.
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I had to take the steering arm off too but i beat it into submission... Do you have the auto locking hubs :o as well? Or have you already replaced them with manual hubs?
The last one I ran across that was rusted like that and did not want to come apart, I used a air hammer with a flat blade attached and vibrated it, the cones came out pretty easy after a min. or so.
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Rust is what causes the cones to stick. When you put it back together, put some grease in there and hopefully that will help if you ever have to take the arm off again.
This is exactly what I did just incase i ever get an e-locker and do more upgrades in the near future...
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I had to take the steering arm off too but i beat it into submission... Do you have the auto locking hubs :o as well? Or have you already replaced them with manual hubs?
The last one I ran across that was rusted like that and did not want to come apart, I used a air hammer with a flat blade attached and vibrated it, the cones came out pretty easy after a min. or so.
I thought seriousely about this andIi use my air hammer a lot but i have noticed that when i resort the the BFAH if usually don't care what gets messed up in the process... I love it for ripping up thin metal and pushing out those stupid metal sleeves around the rubber bushings of the leaf springs.
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The front end alignment is something you can do yourself.
The only adjustment is toe-in, and centering the steering wheel.
Caster/camber are not adjustable on the 73~87(91) Chevy 4x4s.
If, after installing new ball joints, you think you have caster/camber issues, then you have bent parts.
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No camber? What are the shims behind the control arms for?
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Jared are you talking 2WD?
I believe the OP's truck is 4x4. (V10)
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Sorry, I missed that.