Author Topic: Odd occurance with starting  (Read 7251 times)

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Odd occurance with starting
« on: December 25, 2015, 12:27:19 AM »
Hello everyone and let me start off by saying merry Christmas. So about a month ago i replace most of the gaskets and fluids in my truck (1976 Chevy Cheyenne 3/4 4x4 454) and then when I go to start her the thermostat gasket decided it needed to rupture (poor quality gasket or ripped im not sure) so it sprayed coolant everywhere. I shut the truck off and clean up as best as I can. Then I go home for about 2 weeks on leave from the Navy and come back put a better thermostat gasket on and go to turn the key and it acts like a dead battery, weird because I disconnected the cables before I left. My dummy gauge reads about 8 volts. So i take my multi meter to the battery and it reads 13. I think its a shortage somewhere but im terrible with electronics and my chiliton has no wiring diagram in it. Thought some coolant may have gotten onto the starter wires but I havent checked the current down there yet. I was just wondering if any of you guys could point me in the direction of some wires to check that im assuming the coolant hit and mucked it up or something. Truck will spin but its just like a dead battery. Starter engages and spins about oneish turns and thats it. Any help would be appreciated! Would really love to get my baby back to the dirt roads where she belongs!

Offline blazer74

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2015, 12:40:59 AM »
Batt can read 13 volts but not have enough Amps.
Have the batt tested.
You could try to jump start it.

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2015, 01:21:13 AM »
I had it jumped and replaced it with 2 other batteries I had. Still same result.

Offline hatzie

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2015, 08:57:06 AM »
You've got a large resistance in the cables.
A voltage drop test will tell you where it it.
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Offline Chuck Step-a-side

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2015, 11:30:05 AM »
I don't believe that the antifreeze fuild would have a shorting effect in the wiring unless you have a relay or switch in the starter circuit; after all the engine compartment is always exposed to water, sleet and snow one time or another. If  you have already tried a good fully charged battery with the same results, it's possible something in the starter circuit is shorted out. Things to check in that circuit are the starter solenoid or ignition switch. You can get a wired button starter switch which connects the starter solenoid's positive and negative post and you then push the button to turn over the engine. If is starts right up, you may have a faulty ignition starter switch. If it doesn't start, you may have a faulty starter solenoid. You can purchase a new starter solenoid online pretty cheap and be careful because the solenoid may have reserved power in it.The only other thing to test is the continuity (or ohm test) of the wiring from the bulk connector's starter connection to the starter and battery. Do your research when doing any repair that you never done. Hope this helps out and Merry Christmas.

Offline Captain Swampy

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2015, 09:07:17 PM »
If your battery is good and you cleaned the terminals, hook jumper cables from your battery to a good engine ground and the starter solenoid. If it starts, you have bad connections or bad battery cables. If it still doesn't start, you most likely have a bad starter. Look at the small wire from the battery negative to the fender. If it's melted, the main ground is bad,  and the starter is trying to ground through it and overheating it.
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Offline hatzie

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2015, 10:34:42 PM »
If your battery is good and you cleaned the terminals, hook jumper cables from your battery to a good engine ground and the starter solenoid. If it starts, you have bad connections or bad battery cables. If it still doesn't start, you most likely have a bad starter. Look at the small wire from the battery negative to the fender. If it's melted, the main ground is bad,  and the starter is trying to ground through it and overheating it.
Easier than that.
Take a digital multimeter set on > 20vdc range.
Read battery voltage should be > 12.3vdc.
Touch one probe to the battery ground and the other to the block.  If it reads > 0.1 volts there's a questionable connection.
Touch a probe to the positive battery post and the other to the starter BAT stud.  Again... If it reads > 0.1 volts there's a questionable connection.

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Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 06:19:02 PM »
Alright so to give an update, ive been busy with work so I havent had much time to look at her. Tested the starter turned out to be a bad starter (really bad) so i replaced it and the solenoid. Hooked it up and still getting the same issue. Im getting 13ish volts to the starter and solenoid traced the wires up to the altenator and im getting 13 there too. Took the multi meter and ran it from positive on battery to a ground on the body and it also reads 13. Hooked up some cables to the positive to that same ground i tested before and it put my dash gauge at about 9 or 10. Raised it alittle but not really much. So this means it must be an ignition issue right? Does anyone have a good wiring diagram of that? ive looked on google and havent found much. Thank you guys for your responses.

Online bd

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 08:26:57 PM »
Did you remove the intake manifold to replace the gaskets?

The official GM factory 1976 CK Wiring Manual, courtesy of hatzie.

Pay close attention and, with the help of a trusted assistant, do the following steps exactly as outlined - don't shortcut.  Firmly set the park brake, shift the transmission into park or neutral, and be very careful of rotating belts, pulleys and ring gear while cranking.  Take steps that the vehicle cannot move:
  • Connect your voltmeter across the positive and negative cable connections to the battery and record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter negative probe to the battery negative post and the voltmeter positive probe to a patch of clean, bare metal on the starter motor case.  Record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter negative probe to the battery negative post and the voltmeter positive probe to the starter solenoid small "S" terminal.  Record the voltage while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter positive probe to the battery positive post and the voltmeter negative probe to the 3/8" battery cable stud on the starter solenoid.  Record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Post the results of your measurements, tying the measurements to steps 1 - 4.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 11:49:12 AM »
Did you remove the intake manifold to replace the gaskets?

The official GM factory 1976 CK Wiring Manual, courtesy of hatzie.

Pay close attention and, with the help of a trusted assistant, do the following steps exactly as outlined - don't shortcut.  Firmly set the park brake, shift the transmission into park or neutral, and be very careful of rotating belts, pulleys and ring gear while cranking.  Take steps that the vehicle cannot move:
  • Connect your voltmeter across the positive and negative cable connections to the battery and record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter negative probe to the battery negative post and the voltmeter positive probe to a patch of clean, bare metal on the starter motor case.  Record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter negative probe to the battery negative post and the voltmeter positive probe to the starter solenoid small "S" terminal.  Record the voltage while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Connect the voltmeter positive probe to the battery positive post and the voltmeter negative probe to the 3/8" battery cable stud on the starter solenoid.  Record the voltage reading while your assistant attempts to crank the engine.

  • Post the results of your measurements, tying the measurements to steps 1 - 4.

I'll try that as soon as I can get an able body and a better multimeter. Mine just crapped out on me yesterday. And yes I did replace the intake gaskets.

Online bd

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 01:41:21 PM »
... yes I did replace the intake gaskets.

Pay particular attention that the battery ground cable connection to the engine is clean and tight through all of its various brackets and bolts.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 03:21:16 PM »
OK, so here's what I've got so far. Connected the multimeter from negative post to negative cable. And it reads 12.8 so something is grounded out I think right? Traced it so far to the power cable from solenoid up to I think the cable that goes threw the firewall. Red power cable that comes down and then splits to the alternator. It's not the alternator because I unplugged it's wires and still had the same result on meter. Ground cable to engine is good. Bat terminals clean and cables good. I'm pretty new at electrical work so I'm fairly lost at this point. Haven't had the chance yet to do your test "bd".

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2015, 03:45:48 PM »
Correction, it's not the one going to firewall. I'll post a video here in a sec

Offline 1979ChevyMorgan

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2015, 08:47:24 PM »
Guy was also telling me something about a neutral safety switch? Can't seem to find it though. Looked up under the dash by steering column.

Online bd

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Re: Odd occurance with starting
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2015, 09:29:58 PM »
...Connected the multimeter from negative post to negative cable. And it reads 12.8....

Post more about this.

Are you saying you disconnected the ground cable and inserted the meter between the battery and cable?  Or, did you connect the meter between battery negative and the ground cable with the cable attached to the battery?  Was anything ON at the time, such as the dome light, engine compartment light, starter, etc?
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)