Author Topic: ccc gods grace me with your kindness  (Read 3221 times)

Offline a.graham52

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ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« on: December 12, 2017, 07:44:45 PM »
I'm in need of some help from anyone who knows the workings of the ccc setup. I'll be honest it's not a c10 truck (but I do have one) and no one seems to have an idea on the gbody forum. so I came here for the number of users for your advice.

I just had a Rochester 210 rebuilt by J&J last week. the 210 is supposed to be identical to a ccc quad without the secondaries. it's on an 85 oldsmobile cutlass with a 3.8 and it will not stop stumbling off idle.
I'll give a good example... there's snow on the ground and I will gently apply throttle so as not to spin the tires, the engine will load up a bit, car will start to move, stumble, and then tires break free.

if contacted j&j and it will require shipping the carb back to them in Cali from Maine. I'm trying to avoid this as this car is what's keeping my c10 off the road out of the salt. I have an understanding of fuel Injection and also how a cc part of the carb works and the relation between the oxygen sensor and mc solenoid.

what I have done in no particular order:
checked for vacuum leaks
verieif timing
cap, rotor, plugs, wires
adjusted idle mix to achieve 30 dwell (using vintage analog meter)
adjusted mc solenoid couple turns rich and couple turns lean
verfied choke fully opens and also evaluated concern after driving 10 miles.
swapped accel pump for more aggressive unit.
adjusted tps sensor to .41-.46v

can duplicate while powerbraking
I'm at a loss for as I don't have total knowledge of the system or a known good vehicle to compare to.

Offline Stewart G Griffin

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 08:41:54 PM »
Can you take a picture of the carb----particularly the accelerator pump area?

Offline a.graham52

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 07:35:34 PM »
what are you looking for specifically?

Offline bd

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 08:54:49 PM »
Why did you have the carburetor overhauled?  What problem(s) were you trying to correct?  Are there any stored trouble codes?

What's the spark plug gap callout on the VECI label and did you set spark plug gaps accordingly?  Adjusting gaps too narrow will cause a lean misfire and mystery surging.

Unplug the vacuum hose from the EGR valve and test drive for any change in symptoms.  Check TPS voltages using a DVM and jumper test harness while operating the throttle with the ignition switch on, engine off.  DO NOT use an ohmmeter to evaluate TPS function!  Verify the 5-volt reference supplied by the ECM and check for a continuous and smooth voltage transition from idle to WOT - roughly 0.5 - <5 volts with no interim voltage spikes.  Check MAP operation using a scanner. 

The 80's E2ME carburetors were jetted notoriously lean, hence, CCC carburetor adjustments were very specific and not terribly forgiving if you expected to attain decent performance.  Float level, MC solenoid, and idle air bleed settings are critical and should be adjusted using the proper gauges and procedures - a couple of turns this way followed by a couple of turns that way won't cut it.  Idle mixture screws should be balanced initially at 3 - 3 1/2 turns out, with final adjustment on the vehicle.

What do you mean by, "swapped accel pump for a more aggressive unit?"
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline a.graham52

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 09:19:30 PM »
the accelerator pump lever I swapped out for one with a hole lower in the arm and also closer to the carb, making it spray more volume and sooner I believe.

I bought the car not running. the previous owner bought it and never got it running either. he put on a new aftermark carb that appeared to be garbage. didn't even have a hole drilled in the throttle plate to allow vacuum to get to the map sensor. in my mind I could not trust that carb. so I rebuilt the oringinal. that had different issues and a believe the throttle bushings leaked. unsure of what to do I bought a third carb of eBay and played mix and match parts. finally gave up and ordered a carb to be rebuilt from j and j

Offline bd

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 09:49:23 PM »
Quit swapping and mismatching parts.  Be methodical and systematic.  Verify a consistent, blue ignition spark and fuel delivery.  Collect a fuel sample and check it closely for contamination.  In addition to the items I posted earlier, mist some aerosol carburetor cleaner, or hover the carburetor with a rag, to enrichen fuel delivery and see if there is any improvement in symptoms.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:29:15 PM by bd »
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline a.graham52

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 10:00:33 PM »
when I swapped parts I did it in stages, and kept track. all three carbs had different points of failure. one was not machined properly and set to run fairly rich, one had water damage and leaking throttle shaft bushings and the last had bent throttle blades. I out them all together with my best educated ability and once that did not work, I ordered one. for a total of 4. the fourth carb has not been opened up. this has been a month long process, not a weekend slam-fest.

fuel is good fresh and clear, i have put 500 miles on the car since the newest carb. spark is good, coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs (.060" gap), have all been replaced.

i have mixed stories as to what tps voltage is supposed to be so I tried them all. tried .41v, .48v, 5v and not major change in concern. unplugging the egr valve was on the list of things to do.


Offline bd

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 10:33:14 PM »
Intermittent failures of ignition pickup coils were a regular problem in the 80's.  Do your best to determine whether the symptoms are ignition or fuel related then continue from there.  The TPS base adjustment is not as important as a "noiseless" TPS signal.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline a.graham52

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 05:54:45 PM »
so I typically drive a company truck home and leave my car at work. just finally got around to digging into it.low and behold the tps sensor was really destroyed up. ohms was all over the place and rarely consistent. I swapped it out for one from my old carbs and it's all good now! thanks for all the input.

Offline jwpa2

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Re: ccc gods grace me with your kindness
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2018, 05:02:31 PM »
It also helps to know what you are working on, year, make, model, so its not just a guess at something you know, that might help us help you.