Help with flooding TBI

[wishr1]

I have a super-clean shortbed 1987 Chevy/GMC pickup that came with a TBI 305 in it.  I already had a 350 Chevy ready to put in another project truck when I purchased the much nicer 87 that already had overdrive, air, etc…but a weak 305.   So I swapped the 305 for the 350.   I purchased a Throttle Body Adapter plate so the TBI would match up with the intake (Edelbrock performer cam and intake,2101 and 2102, originally set up for the carb) and a performance TBI EPROM chip from Harris Performance (www.tbichips.com).   I also added higher capacity injectors, either 65 or 68 lbs purchased form Injectors4U.com.   Problem is, the TBI is dumping fuel, badly, on the right side (passenger side of the vehicle).  I thought it was just a stuck injector, but I disconnected the injectors and when I start the vehicle, it still immediately dumps fuel.   So badly that you get gas coming out of the right side exhaust and it smells TERRIBLE.    It will run, but not good at all.   I checked the oil to see if fuel was getting down in the motor but it seems not to be.   Most of the extra fuel is being burned or exhausted.    One friend told me to just buy another TBI.    I’m new to the game so don’t know what to do.    I have already junked another truck and new motor listening to and following other people who turned out not to know %&*#!    The specs on the 350 are
-Bored .020 over
-Edelbrock Performer Cam, intake, and lifters (# 2102, 2101) I did see in the paperwork
   from Edelbrock that the 2101 intake was for motors that did not come with an EGR
   valve.   Does that make any difference?
-Roller tip rockers
-Hydraulic lifters   
-The heads were thought to be Dart, but they have a W stamped on them so someone
    thought that they may be World Product Heads.   They do have angled plugs.
    All the numbers stamped on them are W, A06, 96, NH   1-037   That’s all I can see.  Any ideas on what they really are?   
-High volume oil pickup and Milodin oil pan
- Headers and Dual Flowmaster mufflers
-The idle vac level off the rear port read between 14 and 15 psi as it runs now
  I have a MSD 6A ignition control but not using it.
WHAT TO DO?
Also, Do I need a fuel regulator.   I am in Maryland and could take the truck to anybody that knows what the heck they are doing.     I just want to get it to run at its best and be able to drive it 500 miles or so to a show with reliability.   
Thanks for your help.     Wayne          Wayneswish@Msn.com     

[VileZambonie]

If the electrical connector is unplugged and fuel still comes out of the injector it's stuck open. Replace the injector.

[wishr1]

Love your site.   You know what your are talking about and hopefully can help me.  Here is the story.   I found a super-clean shortbed 1987 Chevy/GMC pickup that came with a rebuilt, very low mileage, and tight TBI 305 in it.  I already had a 350 ready to put in another project truck when I purchased the nicer 87 (already had overdrive, A/C) but a 305.   So I swapped the 305 for the 350.   I purchased a Throttle Body Adapter plate so the TBI would match up with the intake  and a performance TBI EPROM chip from Harris Performance (www.tbichips.com).   I also added higher capacity injectors, 65s  purchased from Injectors4U.com.   Problem is, the TBI is dumping fuel, badly, on the right side (passenger side of the vehicle).  Even when I disconnected the injectors it still immediately dumps fuel.  The exhaust smells TERRIBLE.     It will run, but not good at all.   I checked the oil to see if fuel was getting down in the motor but it seems not to be.   Most of the extra fuel is being burned or exhausted.    I only drove it home from the shop.  I am researching EVERYTHING!    I’m new to the game.  I have already junked another truck and new motor listening to and following other people who turned out not to know %&*#!    The specs on the 350 are
-Bored .020 over
-Edelbrock Performer Cam, intake, and lifters (# 2102, 2101)
Cam Specs
Duration at .0006 inches lift   Intake 278 degrees   Exhaust 288 degrees
Duration at 0.050 inches lift   Intake 204 degrees   Exhaust 214 degrees
Lift at Cam         Intake 0.280”      Exhaust 0.295”
Lift at Valve         Intake 0.420”      Exhaust 0.442”
Centerlines       Lobe Separation: 112 degrees     Intake CL: 112 degrees

Timing at 0.050”                Lift:      Open         Close
         Intake:      5 degrees ATDC                29 degrees ABDC
         Exhaust:                44 degrees BBDC                10 degrees BTDC

I did see in the Edelbrock specs. that the 2101 intake was for motors that did not come with an EGR  valve.   Does that make any difference?
-Crane Cams roller tip rockers
-Hydraulic lifters   
- ???The heads were thought to be Dart, but they have a W stamped on them so someone
    thought that they may be World Product Heads.   They do have angled plugs.
    All the numbers stamped on them are W, A06, 96, NH   1-037   That’s all I can see. 
-High volume oil pickup and Miroso oil pan
- Either Flowtech or Dynomax Headers 1.5” diameter and Dual Flowmaster mufflers
-The idle vac level off the rear port read between 14 and 15 psi as it runs now
 (I have a MSD 6A ignition control but not using it.)

How much HP do you think this setup would make??

So in searching I have been directed to Holley and they say their 950-22s stand-alone TBI system 700 cfm using 4 65 lb injectors. (this one for 275-400 HP) will do the trick. For $1700.00.    Ouch, especially since I have spent too much good money already to then find out that didn't work.  I will need a stand-alone transmission controller for this system also.( I do need the overdrive for mileage).  Holly also has a supercharger system that comes with its own intake etc.....  You can never have enough power.     If I 'm goign to spend the money I might as well do it all at once.   
  I am in Maryland and could take the truck to anybody that knows what the heck they are doing.     I just want to get it to run at its best and be able to drive it 500 miles or so to a show with reliability adn decent mileage on pump gas.   87 would be nice.    I haul or tow a couple of bikes and maybe a boat, but mostly just want a nicer cruiser that can “hold its own” from light to light.  I saw a post about customefis.com  and  I am going to call them also.    Any help would be appreciated. 
Thanks     Wayne          Wayneswish@Msn.com 
I'm going to post pics of the truck this weekend.  Can't wait to get those one piece windows in here too.     

[tusk]

as far as your f.i.,have you looked into the mega-squirt,there system can had on the cheap and are tunable as heck

[Captkaos]

You posted all of this before and Vile replied.  Did you try that?  See above.

I am sorta confused on what you are trying to do though or what you are asking. 

[wishr1]

I have read all of the posts under TBI and I do see others have tried to do the same thing.  I saw that Kaos posted that the TBI units are the same for 305 and 350s but only up to a certain HP.   So my basic questions for my specific truck are

1) will this 2 bl stock unit get the most performance out of this stronger-than-stock 350 motor,  even with burning chips, larger injectors, etc...    I want it to idle, get decent MPG and "getrdun" when the right pedal is pressed.   

2) How much HP do you think this engine will make according to these specs and parts?

3) Does anyone know what these heads could be and where I could find specs?

4) Is it worth spending the money for the Holley 950 commander stand alone TBI system?   Either I spend the money and get something that works and is tuneable, or I keep hit or missing and still have to get the Holley in the end.

thanks

[Captkaos]

generally a properly equipped setup like a 2101 Performer system should get you 300 at the crank with no accessories, so basically a 280hp motor. 
How was the 350 that you have set up?  Pistons, heads, etc?

1) stock 350 injectors are rated at 61lb/hr.  The stock setup is more than enough for what you have,  did you consult with Harris on you current setup?

2) since you don't know what exactly you have, it is hard to tell.. see above for a general answer.

3) no idea on the heads, pull the valve cover and get the number stamped on them.

4)with what you have the 950 would be a waste of money in my opinion.

The 305 and 350 units are the same regardless of HP level, the 95 TBI was no different than an 87 TBI.

If you are dumping fuel, you have a bad injector in my opinion.

[wishr1]

Actually, that long post about specs was for the 350.   It has the performer intake and cam, the Dart heads, etc...  It was supposed to be a 300+ motor before the new heads, so I am guessing 350hp.   Does that change your last opinion any?   It really is just frustration for me at this point.   I don't want it to just work but WORK, if you know what I mean.
thanks again

[Captkaos]

I new it was about the 350, this is all you posted:
-Throttle Body Adapter plate
-Edelbrock 2101 intake
-performance TBI EPROM chip
-capacity injectors, 65s
-Bored .020 over
-Edelbrock Performer Cam, intake, and lifters (# 2102, 2101)
-Crane Cams roller tip rockers
-Hydraulic lifters   
- ???The heads
-High volume oil pickup

There is nothing indicating what kind of pistons, Head CC volume, runner volume, etc.   
Adding huge heads to this camshaft would kill your low end power as the cam is for idle to 5500 rpms.
Edlebrocks crate motor makes 310 with the following: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/crate_engines/performer_310.shtml
you aren't going to be adding 50hp to that with bigger volume heads, you would need a camshaft change to gain that much.

So no my last statement won't change.  A properly setup TBI with bigger injectors (90lb came on 454's) and higher fuel pressure will feed a 400hp motor.

[DnStClr]

wishr1, according to the following link from Summit Racing, the World Product heads have a straight plug. Can you contact Harris Perf. and find out if the eprom chip burned for your ecm  might be the wrong one? With only one side of the throttle body dumping fuel, it sure does sound like these guys are right about a bad injector..
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/srcastironhead.pdf

[wishr1]

UPDATE, I got in contact with someone about the heads
the heads are World Products Sportsman II heads  
200 intake runner
160 exhaust valve
202 intake valve
64 or 72 combustion chamber (I"ll take a look to see ASAP)
Rep said the stock TBI won't supply enough fuel for optimal performance.  they were good for up to 600 HP but I need a cam between 490 and 510 lift
He also said 1 3/4 headers will help
Any suggestions for a cam etc...
Im still going to try the bigger injectors for a place to start.   What do you suggest for the injectors, what fuel pressure, and where to get the hardwarde?   I have been trying to contact TBI chips again.   He made the first chip without some of the info I have now.    Do you know anyone really good around Maryland, Virginai etc..?  I gonna get this thing done!   I want to get it running right before I put in the airbags etc....  thats another story.   thanks    This stuff is addictive

[Captkaos]

You need to plan out the components and application, not throw a bunch of stuff together and hope for the best.  What are you building?  What are you goals?  200cc heads will want to have a 6500 rpm peak, but...
The heads themselves don't make power, they have to be used in conjunction with the rest of the parts.  Putting a set on as stock motor won't yeild 600hp..
TBI can supply up to 400hp and will supply a motor making such.

[wishr1]

Now I know.   I got here listening to people etc..  someone sold me the heads and I had them installed on this 350 I was building.   I didn't even know what they really were.   I do plan to change the cam and probably will go with one of the Holley 4bl. systems.  Whatever else I need to.   
What do I want to do?   Get it out of my garage and drive it.  I just want to get the most from what I got.   Without making any more mistakes.  I don't want to be driving on a long grade in the PA mountains, step on the gas to pass a semi, and have the motor bog.    I would like to leave a little rubber on the road when needed.   I would like to surpise other guys in newer trucks (or even cars).   I want to get decent gas mileage (the overdrive will help there).   What would you do?   thanks.
Livin and learnin.

[Captkaos]

How much money do you plan to spend/ have to spend?
when you speak of the Holley 4bl are you talking about EFI or a carb?

[DnStClr]

How far are you from Williamsport?(just southeast of Hagerstown)
http://www.dennysautomachine.com/testimonials.html