73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Maintenanceman on February 05, 2010, 03:18:10 PM
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OK so im in the process of builing a 355 for my truck.This is my first motor build. Ive got the short block (010 block bored .030 over flattop forged pistons, stock gm crank and connecting rods). Ive also got a comp cams double roller timing chain, lifters, pushrods and an oil pump on the way. Now the question is besides the OBVIOUS stuff like cam, heads and everything that goes along with them,water pump, intake, and carburetor, gaskets and of course,all of the fasteners What else am I going to need to put this thing together? I plan on robbing the fuel pump and oil pan off of the motor thats in the truck now.
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Paint, RTV, thread locker, gasket sealer or adhesive, assembly lube, break in lube, bearings and seals and oil pump drive shaft and pick up screen. Don't see a distributor listed either. Add to that cap/rotor, belt, hoses, linkage brackets, valve covers, air cleaner and all the required nuts and bolts and you should be there.
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Don't forget to calculate in oil and a-freeze...
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Paint, RTV, thread locker, gasket sealer or adhesive, assembly lube, break in lube, bearings and seals and oil pump drive shaft and pick up screen. Don't see a distributor listed either. Add to that cap/rotor, belt, hoses, linkage brackets, valve covers, air cleaner and all the required nuts and bolts and you should be there.
Guess I should have mentioned Ive got all new cam bearings and freeze plugs. the motor is fresh from the machine shop. Ive got the distributor, brand new cap and rotor. Basically Im taking out the 350 and going to rob all the parts off of it that I need. The motor isnt hurt at all Ive just got this 355 shortblock that I bought for another project and that project kinda fell apart. Now I will need the break in lube and assembly lube and oil pump drive shaft and Gasket sealer.
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An oil pump primer is nice to have. Put a new waterpump on while you're at it
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so i probably dont need to run the old water pump? your probably right....
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would you put an old HVAC system in a new house? New waterpump without question.
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Actually I disagree with the new water pump thing. The quality of todays components makes this a questionable decision for me. My friend has been through 11 motors on his Vette but still runs the original water pump. I have to agree if it ain't broke don't fix it. Besides the water pump is a simple job should it fail same goes for carb and dizzy. Just my $.02
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11 motors on his vette with the same waterpump? Is the impeller rotted off? lol
Waterpumps aren't made to last forever, we replace them with any major engine work, ie timing chain replacement, timing belt replacement, cyclinder head service and especially if it's a new engine. It's cheap insurance and you might as well do it while you're in there. If it's a new engine your building it also looks nice painted with the engine.
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Dbbl roller chain, Make sure when you install it there is enough clearance between the block and chain. You might need to clearance(grind) the block around the cam gear. I always do a mock up before I do the final assy. and make sure the oil sump pickup is at the right height in the pan about .375 from the pan.
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You seriously replace the water pump every time you do a timing chain or timing belt? Cylinder head service requires water pump replacement? I can see advising to do the water pump while doing the timing belt or chain only if it is an internal water pump. Why can't you clean up the old pump and paint it to look nice too. I used to think like you but life has taught me not to be so quick to get rid of he old for something newer. Quality and workmanship are at an alltime low these days.
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lol....A water pump is cheap...The time it takes to replace it vs the cost of the pump is one thing..Id pay the money to make sure i don't have to deal with it...That and pumps don't last forever they can rot. The seals go bad the bearings go bad it just make sense to have them do it when they have to take it off anyways....Now if he was replacing them every time he changed a belt or changed oil...I could see some one getting mad...But come on...There cheap! and just a head ace to replace.
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Yep they are cheap because they are built cheap. For me I'll take a good old pump made in the USA and made with Pittsburg steel and USA parts over the china made junk you get from a parts store any day. I still wouldn't replace it just because you have it off. Where do you all draw the line on that mentality? Fuel pump? Power steering pump? Winshield washer pump? Why not replace the tranny as long as you have the motor out of the way? Cost is why but its also the one thing that smartens you up to realize you don't have to replace it. Plus there is no guarantee the new pump will be any better or last any longer than the old one. I can tell you all about replacing a starter cause I didn't feel like cleaning the old one only to have to replace it every year for 5 yrs straight and counting. So I say baloney replace it if its bad but otherwise there are better places to spend your money.
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Well as far as I know this one is the original so Im going to go with vile and replace it. And look, I started this post as a newb engine builder looking for help and a list of things Im going to need and now you guys are making a big deal over a water pump? For real? come on guys lighten up. Just because your opinion doesnt match someone else's doesnt mean there automatically wrong. NOW...back on to the topic at hand. Is there anything else I need other than whats listed?
Here are some pics of the short block...
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/Ben1985/08-13-09_2241.jpg)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/Ben1985/08-13-09_2242.jpg)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/Ben1985/08-13-09_2247.jpg)
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Water pumps wear out ask any GOOD mechanic who doesn't use the same waterpump 11 engines later.
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In the overall cost of rebuilding a motor a water pump is is almost non-existent, it is however a vital part. I would not risk my $3-4,000 dollars spent on a new motor for a $50.00 part. I don't like to have the radiator in my semi rebuilt when I do an inframe, but I'd just as soon not risk my $15,000 rebuild either. I would however question the work done by a "mechanic" that would use the same water pump after it had been in 10 engines, but then I'd also wonder what is the guy in the 'vets problem.
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Most good shops will recommend you replace the waterpump while it's removed unless it was a recent replacement due to the fact that you'll be incurring more expenses later when it starts leaking. Nevertheless, back to your topic:
With that oil pump driveshaft, get one with the steel sleeve. Did your dipstick tube survive the removal? Sometimes they get mangled on the way out. If they are factory tins I usually replace them with some better quality ones as they are so prone to leakage. What rockers are you going to be running? If you're using rollers I'd run hardened pushrods and guide plates. Other than what's already been listed looks like you're well on your way!
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Well Its like this. I cant afford new heads right now. Ive got a sat of late model heads (non vortec) laying around that came off of like a 1994 350. I was thinking about shaving them down to up the compression ratio a bit and getting a valve job as far as rockers Im not sure yet. I havent pulled the 350 out yet. As a matter of fact Im driving it today. Just trying to get my ducks in a row first.
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Well first let me appologize for getting off track some what. Second, Vile we are talking about a SBC here. Third, it is my "opinion" that the water pump doesn't have to be replaced during a rebuild. In no book anywhere does it say you have to replace the water pump so to do so is still only opinion. Finally - go get a book on rebuilding the SBC for around $20 and all your questions will be answered and it will have plenty of pics to further illustrate things for you. Another nice thing about the book, you will have all the specs like torque and capacities at your finger tips.
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What intake are you running. Vortec heads are a nice upgrade. I just picked up a complete vortec 350 roller for $100 bucks off craigslist. They're out there and might be worth seeking out rather than putting machine work cost into those other heads which don't perform very well. The only thing is you'll need a vortec intake. The PP one isn't too expensive (under $150)
Russ You said What kind of a response is that? You seriously replace the water pump every time you do a timing chain or timing belt? Cylinder head service requires water pump replacement?
and you are saying you're only talking about an sbc? How many sbc's use a timing belt? Give it a rest already. Most people agree replace it if it's old. If you want run your waterpump until the day it fails go ahead. No one is telling you not too. He asked for advice and everyone's is welcome. It's unltimately up to him to judge whether or not to replace it but do you have any idea how many waterpumps I've replaced with nothing left to the impeller? So if you're going to use an old waterpump at the very least take it apart and inspect it.
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well Ive supposedly got a guy giving me a set of vortecs but hes been saying that for a few months now.
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Russ does raise an important issue about a book, even though I disagree about putting an old pump in a new motor (no it's not mandatory, just preference), but, I think we beat that dead horse, anyway a good book like Vizard's (see below) or Chilton's will have all torque specs and such.
Don't tighten any bolt all the way (like a head bolt, intake bolt, etc.) without starting all bolts and slowly, tighten one turn each bolt in a zig zag pattern and take your time tightening them so you won't warp a head or intake. I cannot overstate that. Cast iron and aluminum will warp if you tighten up one end too much.
I usually get all new parts like belts, hoses, t-stadt, TVS, egr, when putting in a new motor because you simply don't want something to go bad as soon as you get going good w/ the new engine.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Your-Small-Block-Chevy/dp/1557880298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265603880&sr=1-1
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as far as the actual assembly i dont think I will have much of a problem. I turn wrenches for a living. Not on cars but I do work on 2.5 million dollar automated CNC machines daily so the mechanical aspect of putting it together doesnt bother me much, I mean I realize theres some things Im not going to know but I will pick up a book for sure. Sgt. Del, the zig zag pattern or 'star pattern' or whatever you want to call it is habit for me now. I dont care what im putting together... it always gets torqued in a star pattern. Thats what they teach you in maintenance school anyway lol
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you should be in good shape then. sorry for questionning your experience, i didn't know what you knew since it is your first rebuild. I think you should do just fine and it is very rewarding doing this kind of thing yourself.
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no sweat brother after all this IS my first engine build and Im only 21...how much can I know lol?
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All I can say is; as being 21 myself; is to take your time. Don't get impatient. I grenaded my first build, but it worked out better as I got a 400. But that's another story.
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i nearly messed up my first rebuild as well when i was 16 rebuilding a Ford engine. new pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump, bored .40, new heads, crank, etc....
I started it up the first time and it sounded like a diesel....I forgot the oil pump shaft from bottom of distributor and no oil was a flowin'. I shut her off quickly and fixed it. She ran long and strong.
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well with this one being a bowtie it should run long and strong as well.
My timing chain, lifters and cam locking plate came in today so Im on my way just gotta keep digging in the couch cushions to find more change. How do you guys fund these projects? lol
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Sorry to stray off topic again but just a little FYI, The NEW water pumps we sell are made in USA and Canada. They are not offshore lower quality units. As well are our rebuilt pumps which are rbuilt locally in Montreal. Just a little info so people know it is possble to find new ones made qith quality.
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How do you guys fund these projects? lol
Credit card and tax refund... :D
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We're all Jigalow's
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I freakin believe it...