Wiring: Permanent magnet starter w/remote solenoid

[drtbikkid]

Recently got a power master 9600 and want to wire it to a remote solenoid. I've heard that if a jumper is used on a permanent magnet starter it will hang out for a few seconds. Can someone tell me how to wire it up? Or maybe a crude diagram? I'm an electrical dunce. Any info is appreciated.

[slammed79]

Try doing a search for Ford selenoid conversion, either on the site here or on google, that should fix ya up.

[drtbikkid]

so my research has led me to a main debate: run a cable from the battery straight to the starter, then run a smaller gage wire from the relay to the solenoid on the starter., or run a cable from the battery to the Relay then to the starter. i have heard arguments both ways. anyone know about this stuff? one thing i do know is to not run a jumper on the starter. thats about as far as i have gotten.

just lookin for a simple wire this to this, or crude picture.

i hate electrical 

[jaredts]

What are you hoping to accomplish?

[drtbikkid]

The wiring in the truck is rough. I want to replace fusible links and questionable wires, and have as few wires as possible on the starter (heat, mud, etc.). I have the relay already and was thinking I could keep everything in the engine compartment. And do a cleaner job with my wiring.

I just want long term reliability in less than desirable conditions.

[bake74]

     I would say most people have not done this on our trucks.  But go ahead and make a thread out of if and let us all know how it works out.

[78 Chevyrado]

Generally, a relay like fords had, would be MAIN BATTERY CABLE to RELAY  then MAIN CABLE FROM RELAY TO STARTER.  all smaller wire meet up and hook up wherever you hookup the relay

The main BIG cable from the battery would run through the relay and then goto the starter.  The only difference is NONE of the smaller wires would goto the starter, but would all meetup at the relay you install.

[Irish_Alley]

if you plan on mudding. which it sound like you do, you want as little as possible on there cause water likes to screw with things. but even with the ford solenoid you still have the same wires, the solenoid is just remote. if you worrying about the starter the only thing you can do for it is seal it up with some permatex to prevent water from getting in. we do this on all our mud trucks, cause its the first thing to mess up then you have to replace the starter. and some on here have problems with heat and starters but we have one motor that has had the same starter on her for idk 9-10 years and shes seen plenty of mud and mud bogs so she gets some heat also. i may be beating the wrong bush but this is what your planing right?

[drtbikkid]

in short, i just need to know the differances, if any, between wiring a remote solenoid with a normal starter, vs. wiring a remote solenoid with a Permanent Magnet Mini-Starter.

[bd]

If you try to power your GM PM starter with a single cable (like a Ford) you'll experience delayed drive disengagement.  The problem stems from a PM starter momentarily acting like a generator after battery power is removed, keeping the solenoid energized through the "jumper wire" for 1 - 2 seconds, after the engine starts.  The consequences are really annoying!   

The only way to avoid the problem is to wire it like a Chevy!   

Here's why:
Ford energizes their solenoid and starter motor at the same time through a shared battery cable that is switched by a remote relay.  The Ford solenoid serves the single purpose of engaging the starter drive with the ring gear.  Ford uses a single-step process.  The magnetic field that moves the solenoid is the same magnetic field that turns the motor.  A PM motor cannot generate enough power to run itself.

GM energizes their solenoid through a dedicated circuit that is electrically isolated from the starter motor.  On GM, the solenoid doubles as the starter relay.  So, the solenoid engages the drive with the ring gear, then closes a high-current switch to energize the starter motor.  GM uses a dual-step process.  The magnetic field that moves the solenoid is independent from the magnetic field that turns the motor.  A PM motor can generate enough power to keep the GM solenoid energized if jumpered directly to the power lead of the solenoid.  Confused?   

Bottom line, use Powermaster's philosophy:  Wire a Ford like a Ford, and a GM like a GM.   

[Irish_Alley]

idk when but fords used two solenoid

[bd]

idk when but fords used two solenoid

If we're thinking about the same thing, the Ford 'solenoid' mounted on the inner fender is actually a remote mounted relay.  In addition to the relay (aka: solenoid), Ford built a second solenoid into the starter that simply levered the starter drive (Bendix) into mesh with the ring gear.  Some Fords used a hybrid design that incorporated a GM-style solenoid operated by the remote mounted Ford relay.  The single cable running between the relay and the starter made for a clean installation.  Unfortunately, if you wire a "PM" starter this way it can cause a 1 - 2 second delayed release from the ring gear after the engine starts (kind of like holding the key in the Start position after the engine is running).

[Irish_Alley]

this is why i hate fords lol, i just knew about this from my moms 99 e150 and only had to replace it once. and if i remember right according to the parts manual it was called a solenoid switch