Lares vs cardone steering box Saginaw vs [emoji47]

[1979K10]

1979 k10 My 20 year old cardone steering box is getting sloppy. I adjusted the adjustment screw on top but that really just changed the “feel” and it still felt sloppy. I’ve checked center link and drag link, all solid but I’ll probably replace while in there. Rubber steering coupler is oily but seems ok. I ordered a new one since the replacement steering box has a different shaft and splines.

See pics for the differences in the reman lares steering gear vs cardone.
Apparently GM had other manufactures than Saginaw.

What steering box is better? Does it matter?

I’m a bit concerned about the rubber seal where the steering shaft connects on the replacement box. I can easily remove seal by hand where the Saginaw box had a different design.

[JohnnyPopper]

If you can remove it, it pry isn't a seal but more of a dust boot. Look under it, if you see what looks like a seal, it pry is.

Run it, you have driving to do...

[1979K10]

If you can remove it, it pry isn't a seal but more of a dust boot. Look under it, if you see what looks like a seal, it pry is.

Run it, you have driving to do...

Yeah it’s definitely a dust seal pulling it up reveals a bearing and grease. Waiting on the center link and drag link parts for full steering rebuild.

[1979K10]

Replaced steering box, coupler, center link, and drag link. When just replacing steering box I noticed there is a little less play vs the old cardone reman. Still some dead zone in the center but apparently that’s how these were new.

Old Center link was tight but boots tore so replaced that with new moog ends. Drag link had a small amount of play on the end that’s part of the long rod. I’d also hit a huge rock off-road and put a slight bend in the old one. I measured old drag link and adjusted the new to the same. Will have to do a driveway toe check. Steering is now stiff with all the new joints. I tightened everything very tight, what’s the torque spec on center link and drag link? I assume the stiffness will go away after some driving.

[JohnnyPopper]

Looks great!

Did you adjust the internal gear lash?

From what I remember, you need to have the wheels off the ground, then find center in the travel of the gearbox.

There's supposed to be a high point at the center of travel on one of the gear.

You should be able to feel slight drag at that point as you move the wheel left and right.

If you don't feel it, it needs adjustment.

You loosen the locking nut and use the Allen wrench to tighten to the high spot, then back off a tidge.

Holding the Allen in position, lock down the nut.

[1979K10]

Looks great!

Did you adjust the internal gear lash?

From what I remember, you need to have the wheels off the ground, then find center in the travel of the gearbox.

There's supposed to be a high point at the center of travel on one of the gear.

You should be able to feel slight drag at that point as you move the wheel left and right.

If you don't feel it, it needs adjustment.

You loosen the locking nut and use the Allen wrench to tighten to the high spot, then back off a tidge.

Holding the Allen in position, lock down the nut.

Thanks!

Lares had large red print on instructions to not adjust that. They say it’s been adjusted at the factory and don’t change it or your warranty is out the window if that causes damage.

With that said, I did notice a stiffer feel in this box or a light constant drag. I had adjusted the old box so much that it wouldn’t return after taking a sharp turn, backed it off so it would return and ran it like that for years.

The new box is a little tighter than the 20 year old reman cardone. I was hoping for more but there’s still the dead zone slop that must be factory designed. 40+ years ago steering tightness isn’t what it is today.

[JohnnyPopper]

Got It!

You can do damage for sure but it will need adjusting over time.

I would have someone sit at the wheel and move the wheel back and forth within the 'play range' and see if the pittman is moving. If it is, the play is somewhere else.

[Mike81K10]

Here is some torque values!

[1979K10]

Had my assistant move the steering wheel and the steering box responds along with the rest of the steering with the slightest movement of the wheel.
I didn't realize how much the frame flexes when rocking the steering wheel! I checked for frame cracks when installing new steering box and there were none.


Does a steering box brace kit help with wander on the highway and tighten up overall steering? Or just mostly to prevent frame cracks? I'm running 33" tires, so not much bigger than stock.

Anyone know of another brand or better price than $140
https://www.offroaddesign.com/steering/steering-box-braces-frame-repair.html

[1979K10]

Here is some torque values!

Thanks!


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[VileZambonie]

Frame movement and flexing at the front is usually due to cracks around the steering gearbox and or egged out rivets at the front crossmember.

[1979K10]

Looked at frame and rivets. All is solid. Here’s a quick video of the flex.

https://youtu.be/jRL8SmRYZNk

[ehjorten]

There will ALWAYS be some free-play at the center of the box! There has to be some free-play because that is how the spool valve inside the steering gear operates.

[JohnnyPopper]

What do you make of it flexing against the frame?

[ehjorten]

In my 1991 V3500 with crossover steering, I had some cracks in the thicker 1-ton frame rails. I drilled out the end of the cracks, v-notched the cracks on both sides, welded them up, and ground them down smooth. I did not add the poorly fitting doubler-plate, but I did add the bolt in braces on the inside of the frame. This truck runs only 35's but could run up to 38's. I have had zero problems with the frame flex after that fix. I don't go mudding or "wheeling" in it, but I do take it off road hunting and get on some sketchy roads/trails sometimes. It also drives straight and rides great on the pavement.