Author Topic: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*  (Read 28589 times)

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2013, 06:05:59 PM »
How is the spray pattern? constant or is it increasing and decreasing the pulses (as in, non continuous stream of fuel)?

Spray pattern is consistent, looking down below the injectors, the amt and consistency of spray appears correct.

There's some stuff you can check. If you have a FP gauge check for a constant pressure.  How did you hook the pump to the hard line on the level sender? rubber FI hose? Hose clamps or not? I always prefer to clamp them down for a leak free connection. Also, if you reused the old coupler section did you check for cracks/splits?

Yeah, i live and die by hose clamps. Rubber fuel line.

Check the MAP hose, if it's a very soft hose, vac can collapse it and the map sensor will pick this up giving a suring idle

Yeah, that hose appears good, but its not soft. It looks like a non-collapsible rubber/plastic.

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 07:03:09 AM »
whats your codes now?
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Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2013, 08:13:49 AM »
whats your codes now?

I just went outside this morning, plugged in the obd 1.... all thats coming up now is code 12. but the problem persists. My next course of action is to order an ac delco egr valve from rock auto, for the mean time, go get some egr cleaner spray, clean the one thats on there and see if it acts right once clean with a new gasket.

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2013, 02:19:49 PM »
Removed the egr this afternoon. Looks pretty rough as you can see, went ahead and cleaned it out with carb cleaner, toothbrush. Bought a new gasket and will reattach later on this afternoon just to see if it changes the tune of things. In the meantime, I ordered the AC Delco 214-5536 replacement.

Look at the base of the housing, it was pretty much eroding. The inside is a lot cleaner, wasn't a great deal of debris/deposit in there though.

Online VileZambonie

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2013, 06:46:15 PM »
Did you pull the vacuum hose off the EGR and see if it made a difference? Did you spray carb clean at the base of the tbi when it was running?

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Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2013, 10:05:56 PM »
Did you pull the vacuum hose off the EGR and see if it made a difference? Did you spray carb clean at the base of the tbi when it was running?

Nah, didnt test it, because it looked rather rough anyway, wanted to clean it/reinstall and see what it did......til i seen the corrosion/rust, so i just ordered the ac delco replacement and will wait to install a fresh, new one.

Yeah, no change in the idle, i made sure to spray all around it too.

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2013, 03:29:19 PM »
New EGR should be here in a couple days. I've decided im gonna bite the bullet and replace everything left on the code list(o2/esc/iac), replace the injectors/new tbi gasket and go head and do the TBI Rebuild which can be found here on the site.

I'm at a loss for what else to do. Neither one of my manuals give me much info on testing the items given in the code list, been eating up the search function here and on google.

Online bd

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »
Ok, everything came this morning so i pulled the codes and after reviewing, man, could this be something as little as a blown fuse problem? Thru the code results, it looks like everything relating to the fuel system is having an issue, low or high voltage or both. Maybe? check the codes.... 33/34 cant be because i just replaced that map sensor, so thats strange.

Code 13 - Oxygen Sensor Circuit
signal stays low ("lean") during warm engine cruise or sensor is open, or left circuit sensor is open(for dual sensor models)

Code 22 - Open Throttle Position Sensor Circuit
signal voltage is low during engine idle OR fuel cutoff relay circuit - opened or shortened to ground

Code 32 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation System
BARO sensor bad OR EGR valve diag. switch - closed during engine startup  /  or open when EGR flow requested by ECM

Code 33 - Manifold Absolute Pressure/Mass Air Flow Sensor Malfunction
signal voltage is high during engine idle (engine misfire or unstable idle may cause this code)

Code 34  - Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Malfunction
signal voltage is low when ignition on

Code 43 - Electronic Spark Timing Malfunction
ESC (Electronic Spark Control) circuit problems / EST (Electric Spark Timing) circuit is low voltage detected

New EGR should be here in a couple days. I've decided im gonna bite the bullet and replace everything left on the code list(o2/esc/iac), replace the injectors/new tbi gasket and go head and do the TBI Rebuild which can be found here on the site.

I'm at a loss for what else to do. Neither one of my manuals give me much info on testing the items given in the code list, been eating up the search function here and on google.

Heed Vile's advice . . .

Those codes were most likely set by someone plugging in and unplugging sensors....

Unplugging solenoids and controls with the ignition ON sets the associated code(s).  They're probably fictitious faults!

Now, EGR bleed-through past the pintle or the EGR valve being opened by a faulty EGR solenoid (etc) is a reasonable bet ...my 2˘.  Since you have the EGR on order, why not wait until you replace it?  That way you're not throwing money to the wind, and you'll know what repaired it.
Rich
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In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
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Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2013, 05:24:29 PM »
Unplugging solenoids and controls with the ignition ON sets the associated code(s).  They're probably fictitious faults!

Now, EGR bleed-through past the pintle or the EGR valve being opened by a faulty EGR solenoid (etc) is a reasonable bet ...my 2˘.  Since you have the EGR on order, why not wait until you replace it?  That way you're not throwing money to the wind, and you'll know what repaired it.

True, im impatient. Frustrated that i gotta catch rides to/from going on 2 wks, or continuously shelling $ out for gas. I just dont want to replace the egr and that not be it and im back to where i was.Again, im just frustrated. Been a rough couple weeks man, lost my son then the chevy laid down right after. I def aint sign up for all this.  :(


Online bd

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2013, 07:26:24 PM »
87ChevyR10,

Sorry to hear of your loss and frustration.  No one should experience the loss of their child.  Your impatience is more than understandable....

Collectively, we're on your side and just trying to give you the best guidance for your greatest benefit, based on what you tell us.  Unfortunately, the push to get your vehicle back on the road could become even more frustrating, if replacing all of those sensors doesn't correct the issue any faster. 

Rest assured we'll do what we can to help you back on the road as quickly as possible.  In the meantime, while waiting for the EGR valve to arrive, pull the ECM fuses for 20+ seconds to clear out the stored fault codes.  If any codes reset, you'll need to pursue just those.  Keep us updated.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline frotosride

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 11:29:59 PM »
I had the beginning of the same problem. My idle never really got that rough but a few things that may help. One thing I learned is the fuel vapor canister could have a vacuum leak and cause the surging. Also I noticed my EGR was sticking but not all the time. I have yet to replace it but I did take it off and cleaned the fire out of it. These two things helped greatly to the point that while retesting it in a near by parking lot I had to force it to shut stall on me. My next step was to simply clean the TBI. I bough a new base plate gasket and commenced to dousing the TBI with brake cleaner and carb cleaner, wire brushes and anything I could to clean deposits. The IAC seating surface and the vacuum hose connection for the valve cover breathers were the dirtiest. I removed the IAC and cleaned it too. The biggest thing is that you have to be careful not to rotate the pintel because it will change the depth and can/will cause problems at idle.
Since I put the TBI back on I have yet to have any more issues but I still bought a rebuild kit along with my other stock pile of parts waiting to go on. Thank fully I got a head start on them today with new rotors, wheel studs and extended brake lines in preps for the life.
I have spent countless hours trying to find solutions to this problem which seems to be real common on the '87 TBI's and I have come to realize that it is just several small things that you will never notice until they all happen at the same time usually just because of age.

Sorry bout the rough times and I will send up a prayer right now. Good luck with the ruck and keep us up to date!!
"Beat it like a red-headed ford"
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Offline frotosride

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 11:33:33 PM »
Oh and one more thing. It should come in your kit but if it doesn't don't forget that the supply and return lines have 2 different size orings where they screw in to the base of the TBI. If they do not come in the kit then you can pick them up at any autoparts store really cheap just make sure they are for fuel and they should be brown in color. The package will tell you they are for fuel.
"Beat it like a red-headed ford"
1987 v10 Silverado(LQ4), 87 R10,83 K20, 83 cucv 6.2 Detroit
2006 Boulevard M109R 109 cid,2019 M109R BOSS
2009 Jeep XK, (future LS Swap)
GSXR 750 engine awaiting go kart

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 08:04:19 AM »
87ChevyR10,

Sorry to hear of your loss and frustration.  No one should experience the loss of their child.  Your impatience is more than understandable....

Collectively, we're on your side and just trying to give you the best guidance for your greatest benefit, based on what you tell us.  Unfortunately, the push to get your vehicle back on the road could become even more frustrating, if replacing all of those sensors doesn't correct the issue any faster. 

Rest assured we'll do what we can to help you back on the road as quickly as possible.  In the meantime, while waiting for the EGR valve to arrive, pull the ECM fuses for 20+ seconds to clear out the stored fault codes.  If any codes reset, you'll need to pursue just those.  Keep us updated.

I not only pulled and checked both ecm fuses, i replaced both of them. 1 had the wrong ampage in it, so i bought a master pack full of them, replaced the 2 ecms. Only thing it did was wipe out all the codes to where all thats left is the check engine "12" code. I know the map sensor and im guessing the esc are definitely victims of being unplugged. I know for a fact the EGR wasn't, so that might be the only actual real code. In which case, after checking the tracking, the new EGR is en route, so im pretty stoked to pop it in there and fire her up. But, after reading the last couple posts, im thinking im gonna pull the IAC, clean the heck out of it and reinstall it as frotosride had said he did. Wasn't any cleaning to do on the EGR on there, it was shot, if you havent seen the pics.

I had the beginning of the same problem. My idle never really got that rough but a few things that may help. One thing I learned is the fuel vapor canister could have a vacuum leak and cause the surging. Also I noticed my EGR was sticking but not all the time. I have yet to replace it but I did take it off and cleaned the fire out of it. These two things helped greatly to the point that while retesting it in a near by parking lot I had to force it to shut stall on me. My next step was to simply clean the TBI. I bough a new base plate gasket and commenced to dousing the TBI with brake cleaner and carb cleaner, wire brushes and anything I could to clean deposits. The IAC seating surface and the vacuum hose connection for the valve cover breathers were the dirtiest. I removed the IAC and cleaned it too. The biggest thing is that you have to be careful not to rotate the pintel because it will change the depth and can/will cause problems at idle.
Since I put the TBI back on I have yet to have any more issues but I still bought a rebuild kit along with my other stock pile of parts waiting to go on. Thank fully I got a head start on them today with new rotors, wheel studs and extended brake lines in preps for the life.
I have spent countless hours trying to find solutions to this problem which seems to be real common on the '87 TBI's and I have come to realize that it is just several small things that you will never notice until they all happen at the same time usually just because of age.

Sorry bout the rough times and I will send up a prayer right now. Good luck with the ruck and keep us up to date!!

I was one click away from pretty much emptying my bank acct til Vile recommended i chill, replace the EGR then go from there. I had the injector set and everything associated with a problem code pulled up ready to order. Makes sense to replace whats needed only, but, im just kinda desperate to get her back on the street.

Oh and one more thing. It should come in your kit but if it doesn't don't forget that the supply and return lines have 2 different size orings where they screw in to the base of the TBI. If they do not come in the kit then you can pick them up at any autoparts store really cheap just make sure they are for fuel and they should be brown in color. The package will tell you they are for fuel.
I had actually noticed that looking at the haynes manual last night, seeing that the return/feed lines being diff sizes. Good look on that, i think the rebuild kit has it, but, if not, i got all 3 part stores right down the street.

On a side note, why is it that AC Delco parts so hard to find..................for a chevrolet? I have been on an all ac delco kick since ive had some bad luck with non AC parts, but, some stuff im just not finding available. I cant understand that. Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt ACD a GM only part up until a certain time, like motorcraft was for ford.

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 08:17:05 AM »
Also, preciate the words and prayers. Man i need all i can get. I havent missed a day of work since losing my son hoping itd help, but with the truck layin down right after, its kinda compounded everything going on. So i preciate that. I'm a member of a few chevy forums, but this is the ONLY place i post at and come to because of folks like the ones here.

Once again, i preciate all the time, effort and thought put in into tryna help me get this thing back right. All of yall. I'm just prayin its the EGR so i can go on and attempt this rebuild after i replace the master cylinder. Not looking forward to that.... at all. The box/part is just sitting across the room staring at me.

Offline 87ChevyR10

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Re: So it isnt my fuel pump **TROUBLE CODES ADDED 4/19** *VIDEO ADDED 4/16*
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 04:05:14 PM »
Just installed the new EGR, sadly, only slight improvement. Looking at the injectors spraying when revving the throttle, it looks like the injector on the right is spraying at a lowerrate than the left.

now, im officially at a loss. Vile, i think you had said something about checking the vacuum on the EGR? i put my thumb up to the egr port and nothing, checked the hose running FROM the EGR, no vacuum it felt like.

where do we go from here?