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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Blazers/Jimmys => Topic started by: MuddiGGEr25 on February 26, 2017, 08:57:43 PM

Title: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on February 26, 2017, 08:57:43 PM
My wife and i went and picked up a 1986 K5 silverado this weekend, its a little rougher for the wear + hitting black ice in a whiteout blizzard in the middle of the night and ending up in the ditch didnt help matters, but its home now.

A few pics at the public link at the bottom, im gonna take better ones tomorrow once its sunny out so i can get clear pics

 Odo shows 23181 so im gonna assume 123K or 223K, based off the minimal rust id say probably the 123K no back seat, but i am gonna see if i can put the 3rd row from the suburban in there.

The interior seems complete, needs a good detailing and probably a few lightbulbs.

PO removed the crate 350 engine and rebuit trans/tcase and sold us the roller for $200




Next weekend my wife and I are gonna pull the TBI350, TH350, NP208 out of cliffy and transplant it into the blazer, other than possibly some fun with the wires for the TBI should be a straightforward swap.

Does anyone on here know if we will be able to pull the radiators and be able to just swing the entire combo out of the suburban and into the blazer? eg. unbolt the driveshafts, crossmembers and engine mounts, all the wires and exhaust then just move the whole shanabang( engine/trans/tcase)  and bolt it into the blazer?


We will be keeping the 10bolt axles... for now, but i am keeping the 14bolt rear and the 8lug 10 bolt off the burb before crushing it so i will have spares.

What size tires are ok for 3.42 geared 10bolt axles? 35x12.5? 37x14? I have 18.4-16.1 ag tires to put on it next year but for now just want to run what the axle can withstand under decent abuse, mostly mud, some dirt and swamps. it will rarely see roads, except when my wife wants to take it to work, the tag says 31's came with it but im quite sure the ones on it are smaller than 31's bc the 235/85r16 on the burb are much taller



Any other advice before we begin would be appreciated too.

Both diffs will be inspected and fresh syn fluid, and fresh antifreeze too.

We will also be installing the aux rear heater into the blazer, if nothing more than to provide a "mini" radiator in the back during the summer, based off the size it can remove 10-14K BTU from the engine, and i noticed 2 summers ago when i was bog racing i could drop the engine temp 5-10F by turning it on, especially when the front rad was getting clogged with mud -.- lol


https://www.facebook.com/MudiGGer25/posts/10210311243790272


In case anyone was wondering, its not gonna get a major lift or anything for now, just maybe 1" add-a-leaf for the front and 2" block for the rear, i dont want to swap springs right now because i dont want a harsh ride lol
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on February 27, 2017, 04:19:45 PM
... paging 1..2...3... anyone out there lol
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 27, 2017, 05:52:31 PM
Removing front core support will help, so you may be able to lift and place the whole engine/tranny combo as a unit.

I wouldn't go above 35" tires on a 10 bolt, and you'll likely not fit anything above 32" without some sort of lift.


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Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on February 27, 2017, 07:23:30 PM
sorry im not sure what your meaning by front core support, is that under the radiator or the condensor? both of those will be removed on both vehicles, as well as alt and PS pump/fan and shroud, im thinking of just bolting the Tcase separately to make it a little easier, and i can open it, inspect it and reseal that stubborn side that leaks still. the engine and trans only have 38K on thier rebuilds so im not worried about them.


Thought of another question while i was at work today, will a 1977 small block 400 AC compressor fit onto the 1987 engine block? its TBI so its still the old style with passenger side alt and drivers side AC and PS pumps....  i did get the serp belt combo for the alternator, i could find scrap brackets if need be, but i think it would be the right compressor.


The current plan is to just run the 225/75r15 that are on it for a few months and see whats out there for 35's maybe just 33's im gonna do the cheap mans lift, just put the HD 3 leaf front springs on it and the zero rate add a leaf from ORD, and then see what size block i would need to have the back end up about 1' higher than the front when not loaded, so when we have gear in it we should still be pretty level. i think i should gain 2-2.5" in the front that way.

Just so yall know i have a 8lug GM 14FF rear that can go on this blazer and i can easily grab a set of 8x6.5 to 6x5.5 adapters online that are only 1.5" thick, so it wouldnt affect the look very much, im just not sure how sturdy the front 10bolt axle is and how hard it would be to swap to a 4.10 ring and pinion


I think with my wife helping that we should be able to pull off the swap in one afternoon and wiring the next morning ( i hope)

Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Captkaos on March 01, 2017, 12:18:10 PM
30 or 31 will be ok with the 3.42's, anything bigger I would regear.

Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
squarebody.biz

Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: fitz on March 01, 2017, 01:00:31 PM
In my younger days I was grenading 10 bolt rears (3.42 gears) running 33" tires.
As far as removing the engine/trans/transfer case as 1 unit, i don't think so.  I tried it before with a 6.2 diesel, turbo 400, 208 set up and I couldn't get it done. I had the radiator support out then I tried it.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 01, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
The whole front end with the lights that the radiator bolts too. I've never tried to remove the whole engine with a transfer case before, only with a tranny, and sometimes it was touch and go to get over the front.


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Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 01, 2017, 05:26:47 PM
30 or 31 will be ok with the 3.42's, anything bigger I would regear.

Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
squarebody.biz

according to the options sheet in the glovebox it came with 31x10.50r15 tires originally, and Cliffy had 3.42 10 bolt axles before i swapped in the 3/4 ton ones and i was running 30x9.50r15 and i was very pleased with the amount of oomph vs weight, 0-60 times were 7-8 seconds steady, only got rid of them bc PO has run the bearing down then used a saver bearing then wore that one out too. IMO 10 bolt axles are a bit on the weak side for a 6,000+lb truck and 7,500 with passengers and gear lol, i would think with the blazer being 2500lbs lighter i might be comfortable with 33's not sure though

In my younger days I was grenading 10 bolt rears (3.42 gears) running 33" tires.

If the 10bolt rear cannot take it, can the front? ive read that the 10bolt front is on par with a dana 44 for strength and uses a regular open diff

As far as removing the engine/trans/transfer case as 1 unit, i don't think so.  I tried it before with a 6.2 diesel, turbo 400, 208 set up and I couldn't get it done. I had the radiator support out then I tried it.

Ive decided to remove the Tcase first so i can inspect/rebuild and reseal the leaky edge, then its just a matter of squeezing the 5.7L/TH350 out of there,  i would think that if i put the front on stands  so as to angle the truck up and off the leaf springs i would gain 10-12" of clearance... thats what i had to on our class C motorhome when i put in the 454..../b]

The whole front end with the lights that the radiator bolts too. I've never tried to remove the whole engine with a transfer case before, only with a tranny, and sometimes it was touch and go to get over the front.
Thanks for clearing that up


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New question, kinda.

I have the 14FF rear and corp 10 front i put on Cliffy the donor, they are geared 4.10, but the front ( 8 lug 10 bolt) looks like this:  /---{}---\ and the 10 bolt on the k5 looks like this: |---{}---|, how hard would it be to swap the 4.10 ring and pinion from the 3/4 ton into the 1/2ton 10bolt and maybe swap all the 8 lug stuff over too? I can keep it 6lug and just grab a set of 8lug to 6 lug adapters for the rear, thats totally an option if needed to simplfy the process.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 01, 2017, 07:32:04 PM
why not replace the ball joints?
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 02, 2017, 12:05:58 AM
I was told the axle itself is worn, I get very little play when I jack it up and put a 6ft pry bar under it. it spent 380K under a 3/4 ton 6.2l God knows how much abuse it took
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 02, 2017, 01:11:48 AM
ball joints will break before the axle gets worn. could even be wheel bearings the only thing i can think of would be a bent axle but ive never seen one and dont see how its possible
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: fitz on March 02, 2017, 04:07:26 AM
ball joints will break before the axle gets worn. could even be wheel bearings the only thing i can think of would be a bent axle but ive never seen one and dont see how its possible
I've seen a bent axle tube before.  The same Jimmy that I was blowing up the rear 10 bolts on also suffered a bent front axle housing.
Looking back, going over jumps and getting the truck airborne wasn't  the smartest thing to do.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 02, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
ive seen bent trailer axles from being over loaded. dont think an engine would overload the front axle. some nice air time, yes i could see that lol
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: fitz on March 02, 2017, 08:02:14 PM
.
some nice air time, yes i could see that lol

The price for a low mileage, clean, ready to bolt in 10 bolt front axle in 1992 was $450.  The fact that it still brings back great memories today, priceless.

Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 02, 2017, 10:13:50 PM
something you dont really think about growing up is the effect of gravity. i took my grandmothers aerostar on a slight jump, i dont think i got that much air but when it landed my tool box that was sitting in the back almost collapsed when i hit ground. once i came to a stop i opened the door and rolled out in pain and from laughing so hard
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Captkaos on March 02, 2017, 11:35:20 PM
Quote
how hard would it be to swap the 4.10 ring and pinion from the 3/4 ton into the 1/2ton 10bolt and maybe swap all the 8 lug stuff over too?

Impossible as the axles are completely different.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 03, 2017, 04:46:41 AM
geez you guys lol  ;D ;D ;D  im just wondering how difficult it is to put the 4.10 gears from the 3/4 ton axle into the 1/2 axle, another reason i would rather do it this way is that the 3/4 axle has already got around 300K on it, if i found the right notepad from the axle swap, and the 1/2ton from talking to the PO and as far as he is aware only has hit the 123K mark, so many less miles, and just judging by the body condition, i dont think its been run very hard yet, otherwise i should be seeing alot more dents and packed in mud or cracks where the steering box attaches, which i dont see any of those indicators, so im going to assume its in overall better shape than my donor 3/4ton 10bolt.

I could swap my 14FF to 3.42 so i could use the 4x4 but that defeats the point IMO.  If worst comes to worse and the 10 bolt rear breaks i can throw the 14FF on it but i just will be stuck without 4x4 for a little while... I intend to scavenge for a D60 to put in the front in a few months (hopefully before june, if not then before november) , i was just thinking of putting 4.10 gears in it right away if i could pull it off this or next weekend.

I will post pics/video as we do the swap this weekend, going up to Fargo (nearest decent sized town of 100K+) for some tools n stuff saturday morning, then start the swap when we get back and hopefully done by sunday night. might be putting new ujoints on too lol
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Captkaos on March 03, 2017, 07:48:04 AM
Quote
im just wondering how difficult it is to put the 4.10 gears from the 3/4 ton axle into the 1/2 axle

It isn't difficult, as I said above it is IMPOSSIBLE.  A 14 bolt is either a 9.5" (semi-float) ring gear or a 10.5" (full float) ring gear.  The 10 bolt is 8.5" ring gear.  This is like asking to put manual gears from a manual transmission in an Automatic.

If you are talking about buying the appropriate aftermarket replacement ring gear in the 4.10 ratio that fits a 14 bolt and put it IN a 14 bolt based on you questions it is a 10 on a 10 scale for you.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 03, 2017, 08:58:05 AM
I am talking about transferring gears from the 4.10 10 bolt FRONT to the 10 bolt FRONT that currently has 3.42.  4.10 is a 3/4 ton 10 bolt 3.42 is a 6 lug 1/2 ton 10 bolt.... the intereal should be the same
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 03, 2017, 11:40:08 AM
my other option is to remove the 4.10 gears in the 14FF REAR axle and put 3.42 gears in it, and then put that under the rear of the blazer then I would have a 3.42 in both axles and a 14FF In the rear. but my original question was how hard is it to swap internals of a 1984 10 bolt FRONT into a 1986 10 bolt FRONT. swapping the 8 lug hardware from the 84 is OPTIONAL 
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 05, 2017, 06:05:27 AM
going to be swapping the engine in today, just wondering are the internals of a 1984 8 lug 10 bolt the same as a 1984 6 lug 10 bolt? I have read yesterday several how to pages on how to swap the 8 lug parts onto the 1/2 ton 10 bolt but can I swap the ring and pinion and how hard is it to get it set right? I'm trying to learn here instead of just taking the easy route so if I break something this summer I will have a better understanding of how to fix it.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: roundhouse on March 05, 2017, 09:00:59 AM
going to be swapping the engine in today, just wondering are the internals of a 1984 8 lug 10 bolt the same as a 1984 6 lug 10 bolt? I have read yesterday several how to pages on how to swap the 8 lug parts onto the 1/2 ton 10 bolt but can I swap the ring and pinion and how hard is it to get it set right? I'm trying to learn here instead of just taking the easy route so if I break something this summer I will have a better understanding of how to fix it.
Swapping a ring and pinion and getting it right in a GM axle is virtually impossible without the proper tools and many years of experience
Setting up axle gears is the automotive equivalent of brain surgery


Swapping from 6 out to 8 lug on a front axle is usually just the spindles , hub, and calipers


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Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 05, 2017, 09:53:49 AM
yeah I found a couple step by steps for ring and pinion changes for a 10 bolt 8.5" corp axle and I decided that I'm going to put the 4.10 8 lug 10 bolt up on some saw horses or similar and take my time and do ball joints, maybe better axle shafts and replace I u joints whilst I have it apart. maybe the camber will be correct when I'm done. even if not I'll have a refreshed axle and then I can put both 8 lug axles in the blazer and the 14FF in the rear should be able to handle whatever I throw at it.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 05, 2017, 10:44:25 AM
one of them tv shows turned a 14ff into a front axle thats another option. not sure of the price tag and im sure most will pass once they find out lol
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: roundhouse on March 05, 2017, 10:25:49 PM
We swapped a 14 bolt full floater in the back after blowing up two stock 12 bolts

And swapped the 8 lug spindles and brakes on the front Dana 44

 I feel confident in staying that no one will ever be able to set up a ring and pinion correctly the first time

Or the second time. 
Or the third time
That's a job for someone with grey hair thats done it dozens of times

And has the proper tools
A ford nine inch is hard enough
But Dana's and GM corporate axles are very difficult


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Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 06, 2017, 12:41:37 PM
thanks for the advise lol, I'm not going to try something there is a 95% chance of me screwing up.

my wife's family was down this weekend so we didn't get a good start yet, but we realized we can use the 4x10 trailer as a workbench to tear down the tcase and other parts. we decided we will just take a little longer and inspect the transfer case and rebuild the corp 10 8 lug axle, ball joints, ujoint and anything else it looks like it needs.

next question. is this: how big of a tire can we go with a refresh on that 3/4 ton 10 bolt? it would be some street use but mostly mud drags, a few back roads and events like trucks gone wild. I was thinking 35x12.50 super swampers or similar would be ok. I know the 14FF rear could handle bigger but until I buy a Dana 60 for the front I'm limited by the corp 10 strength.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on March 21, 2017, 07:08:11 PM
quick update, pulled the driveshafts (ya i know not a whole lot of progress) but planning to pull the Tcase and drain the rad tomorrow while the wife is at the funeral. then we are gonna try again to accomplish the swap this weekend.
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on April 08, 2017, 07:01:54 PM
Well, (pics attached) i got the TBI350/TH350/NP208 out of the 88 burb and into the 86 K5.

Ive decided due to changes in our living situation that i will just be leaving the 10 bolts front (and rear) i know probably not my wisest idea in the world, but due to my failing back and knees we are just wrapping up the trucks, and remodeling the 37ft park model so we can drive it down to TN/GA for the summer so i can atleast enjoy my summer while i do PT, and look into surgery options... again...


Also have been reading this one too to see what i "REALLY" need  http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/60101.pdf

I decided to forgo some of the wires that were going into the harness of the drivers side:

Purple/white stripe = Crank signal but according to : http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3908 that one isnt used, and i can say ive removed the crank fuse to use before and it never affected anything

Tan/black stripe =  TCC or shift light, well i have neither so that should be no problem

Pink/Black stripe: Ign feed, well obviously im just splicing this into the 86 ign feed wire

Purple: VATS is the only one i found that was solid purple but dont remember seeing a PIN for it when i was connected to the ALDL port

Brown: VSS, im not sure if i even want to bother with this one, because the tires on it are quite smaller than the original, and i think it would give an incorrect reading anyway, and i was running for over a year with it reading wrong, so other than maybe throwing a code i dont think i need it.

Tan/white: Fuel pump relay, this will just go to a firewall relay that will turn on the inline pump on the frame, which brings me to my next topic:

I am going to have to end up swapping the fuel pump in about a week, but after reading abunch of online TBI swap threads, some say the E8135 will work @ 35GPH and 10-14PSI.  but i will be ordering https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p5001

Specs are 20PSI MAX at 50GPH again MAX, but the internal regulator should push whatever isnt being used back to the tank.. correct?? i have read of more than probably 50 people in offroad forums that swear by the E2000 pump that can put out almost 95PSI but the excess is rerouted to the tank...

I would of course be keeping the E8135 as an emergency trail pump, and i know someone is gonna say " just do it the right way the first time" and if i had the time/$$ i would, but to get the P5001 around here (really small town like less than 3K pop) they want $120 for it, and i need to have it running by saturday morning/early afternoon, because friday night the 6.2L will be incapacitated and pulled to be picked up saturday by the buyers, so i figured for the same price of the P5001 locally, i can use the smaller pump to "put put" to the factory (only 3 miles) until the P5001  arrives and i get a backup pump for the same cost...


Right now once the TCase is bolted to the cross member all i should need to do:
Install battery
Install fan
Install PCM
Install Radiator
Install Trans cooler (its got a oil cooler but thats probably going to the the V20 as i dont have the hookups for the oil cooler on the TBI)
Install A/C pump ( later)
Install Tcase shifter
Connect Trans and Tcase linkage
Install driveshafts and new u-joint(s)
Install fuel pump
Install Relays
Splice needed wires to existing harness
Replace any dim headlights

Fill Oil
Fill Trans
Fill Tcase
Fill Rad

I think thats about it..
I want to have it ready for cranking tomorrow, but wont be paid till friday to buy all the fluids.


Fill trans/cooler



Oh there was a 6pin connector right next to the PCM but it doesnt go into the PCM, it actually goes left to the drivers area, anyone know what that runs to?
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on April 08, 2017, 07:06:56 PM
here is a PDF i found on the IH swap page that they use for swapping the GM TBI into them...

Is this pretty much all i "need" to have it run in an off road rig?
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on April 15, 2017, 01:06:48 AM
Ok so i was looking at these wiring diagrams from autozone for up to 87 engine bays, and i dont have the ECM 1 or ECM B fuse or the orange constantly hot wire coming out of the 86 fusebox, and i dont feel like trying to do any transplanting or splicing of any of that wiring,

So I do have the pink/black wire lead coming from the Gauge/idle fuse in the 86, is there any reason to not run that splice into that switched 12V and run a wire to a set of fused relays then connect the ECM 1/B TBI harness wires to those relays with an inline fuse for each one?

Also is there a preferred source of 12V constant to pull for the ECM "memory" or can i run a fused line right from the battery +, or the junction on the firewall?
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on April 17, 2017, 09:36:16 PM
Well after about 18 hours of looking at those wiring diagrams, and half a dozen others, and comparing to my harness colors, i think im only gonna need 2 relays (fuel pump) and the ECU 12V supplies ECM1 & B.

I will have a 30A ATC inline waterproof fuse feeding the 12V+ going to both relays ( that should be enough right?) its only gotta feed an inline fuel pump and the ECM1 is 10A and ECMB is 10A also, and i know the fuel pump isnt more than 3.9A ( thats what the book said at the parts store)

I will just be hooking up the Temp guage and speedo at first because ive been hitching a ride to work the last 3 days due to not having a running vehicle, and they wont be at work the next 2 days.


All thats left is to mount the cross member, exhaust,  rear driveshaft, heatercore hose, vac hoses, air filter, PCM wiring, Tach, speedo, and Temp gauge and it should be usable to drive to work and run errands
Title: Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
Post by: MuddiGGEr25 on April 20, 2017, 07:19:21 PM
Got got it going, right now the rear driveshaft is about 4" too long, gotta drop that off tomorrow at the shop to get it shortened and balanced, in the meantime its just gonna have to be a FWD truck so i can get to work.

Got up to 60MPH ok earlier, but i am using a boat fuel cell ATM, because i cannot get fuel out of the tank and i put in 5 gallons personally, so the fuel line must be broken in the tank. I am considering swapping the TBI tank into the K5, but dont know what that would entail, and whether i really feel like all that hassle.

The temporary fuel pump is woefully inadequate, but thats the point, its supposed to be a "get me home in a emergency spare" just enough to start it and get up to a decent speed.

Tomorrow im gonna just clean up my mess and try and clean up all the new oil stains on the driveway lol.

Over the weekend before work, im gonna work on installing the radio, vac gauge and tach, then get the wiring tidied up and get the fan shroud on there.


Oh yeah, manual steering for now till i get the right pump.



And holy cow is this thing LIGHT compared to the 2 burbs.

Ill get some pics up if anyone wants tomorrow