Author Topic: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap  (Read 12747 times)

Offline Captkaos

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 11:35:20 PM »
Quote
how hard would it be to swap the 4.10 ring and pinion from the 3/4 ton into the 1/2ton 10bolt and maybe swap all the 8 lug stuff over too?

Impossible as the axles are completely different.

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 04:46:41 AM »
geez you guys lol  ;D ;D ;D  im just wondering how difficult it is to put the 4.10 gears from the 3/4 ton axle into the 1/2 axle, another reason i would rather do it this way is that the 3/4 axle has already got around 300K on it, if i found the right notepad from the axle swap, and the 1/2ton from talking to the PO and as far as he is aware only has hit the 123K mark, so many less miles, and just judging by the body condition, i dont think its been run very hard yet, otherwise i should be seeing alot more dents and packed in mud or cracks where the steering box attaches, which i dont see any of those indicators, so im going to assume its in overall better shape than my donor 3/4ton 10bolt.

I could swap my 14FF to 3.42 so i could use the 4x4 but that defeats the point IMO.  If worst comes to worse and the 10 bolt rear breaks i can throw the 14FF on it but i just will be stuck without 4x4 for a little while... I intend to scavenge for a D60 to put in the front in a few months (hopefully before june, if not then before november) , i was just thinking of putting 4.10 gears in it right away if i could pull it off this or next weekend.

I will post pics/video as we do the swap this weekend, going up to Fargo (nearest decent sized town of 100K+) for some tools n stuff saturday morning, then start the swap when we get back and hopefully done by sunday night. might be putting new ujoints on too lol
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline Captkaos

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 07:48:04 AM »
Quote
im just wondering how difficult it is to put the 4.10 gears from the 3/4 ton axle into the 1/2 axle

It isn't difficult, as I said above it is IMPOSSIBLE.  A 14 bolt is either a 9.5" (semi-float) ring gear or a 10.5" (full float) ring gear.  The 10 bolt is 8.5" ring gear.  This is like asking to put manual gears from a manual transmission in an Automatic.

If you are talking about buying the appropriate aftermarket replacement ring gear in the 4.10 ratio that fits a 14 bolt and put it IN a 14 bolt based on you questions it is a 10 on a 10 scale for you.

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 08:58:05 AM »
I am talking about transferring gears from the 4.10 10 bolt FRONT to the 10 bolt FRONT that currently has 3.42.  4.10 is a 3/4 ton 10 bolt 3.42 is a 6 lug 1/2 ton 10 bolt.... the intereal should be the same
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2017, 11:40:08 AM »
my other option is to remove the 4.10 gears in the 14FF REAR axle and put 3.42 gears in it, and then put that under the rear of the blazer then I would have a 3.42 in both axles and a 14FF In the rear. but my original question was how hard is it to swap internals of a 1984 10 bolt FRONT into a 1986 10 bolt FRONT. swapping the 8 lug hardware from the 84 is OPTIONAL 
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 06:05:27 AM »
going to be swapping the engine in today, just wondering are the internals of a 1984 8 lug 10 bolt the same as a 1984 6 lug 10 bolt? I have read yesterday several how to pages on how to swap the 8 lug parts onto the 1/2 ton 10 bolt but can I swap the ring and pinion and how hard is it to get it set right? I'm trying to learn here instead of just taking the easy route so if I break something this summer I will have a better understanding of how to fix it.
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline roundhouse

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2017, 09:00:59 AM »
going to be swapping the engine in today, just wondering are the internals of a 1984 8 lug 10 bolt the same as a 1984 6 lug 10 bolt? I have read yesterday several how to pages on how to swap the 8 lug parts onto the 1/2 ton 10 bolt but can I swap the ring and pinion and how hard is it to get it set right? I'm trying to learn here instead of just taking the easy route so if I break something this summer I will have a better understanding of how to fix it.
Swapping a ring and pinion and getting it right in a GM axle is virtually impossible without the proper tools and many years of experience
Setting up axle gears is the automotive equivalent of brain surgery


Swapping from 6 out to 8 lug on a front axle is usually just the spindles , hub, and calipers


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Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 09:53:49 AM »
yeah I found a couple step by steps for ring and pinion changes for a 10 bolt 8.5" corp axle and I decided that I'm going to put the 4.10 8 lug 10 bolt up on some saw horses or similar and take my time and do ball joints, maybe better axle shafts and replace I u joints whilst I have it apart. maybe the camber will be correct when I'm done. even if not I'll have a refreshed axle and then I can put both 8 lug axles in the blazer and the 14FF in the rear should be able to handle whatever I throw at it.
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2017, 10:44:25 AM »
one of them tv shows turned a 14ff into a front axle thats another option. not sure of the price tag and im sure most will pass once they find out lol
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Offline roundhouse

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2017, 10:25:49 PM »
We swapped a 14 bolt full floater in the back after blowing up two stock 12 bolts

And swapped the 8 lug spindles and brakes on the front Dana 44

 I feel confident in staying that no one will ever be able to set up a ring and pinion correctly the first time

Or the second time. 
Or the third time
That's a job for someone with grey hair thats done it dozens of times

And has the proper tools
A ford nine inch is hard enough
But Dana's and GM corporate axles are very difficult


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Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2017, 12:41:37 PM »
thanks for the advise lol, I'm not going to try something there is a 95% chance of me screwing up.

my wife's family was down this weekend so we didn't get a good start yet, but we realized we can use the 4x10 trailer as a workbench to tear down the tcase and other parts. we decided we will just take a little longer and inspect the transfer case and rebuild the corp 10 8 lug axle, ball joints, ujoint and anything else it looks like it needs.

next question. is this: how big of a tire can we go with a refresh on that 3/4 ton 10 bolt? it would be some street use but mostly mud drags, a few back roads and events like trucks gone wild. I was thinking 35x12.50 super swampers or similar would be ok. I know the 14FF rear could handle bigger but until I buy a Dana 60 for the front I'm limited by the corp 10 strength.
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 07:08:11 PM »
quick update, pulled the driveshafts (ya i know not a whole lot of progress) but planning to pull the Tcase and drain the rad tomorrow while the wife is at the funeral. then we are gonna try again to accomplish the swap this weekend.
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2017, 07:01:54 PM »
Well, (pics attached) i got the TBI350/TH350/NP208 out of the 88 burb and into the 86 K5.

Ive decided due to changes in our living situation that i will just be leaving the 10 bolts front (and rear) i know probably not my wisest idea in the world, but due to my failing back and knees we are just wrapping up the trucks, and remodeling the 37ft park model so we can drive it down to TN/GA for the summer so i can atleast enjoy my summer while i do PT, and look into surgery options... again...


Also have been reading this one too to see what i "REALLY" need  http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/60101.pdf

I decided to forgo some of the wires that were going into the harness of the drivers side:

Purple/white stripe = Crank signal but according to : http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3908 that one isnt used, and i can say ive removed the crank fuse to use before and it never affected anything

Tan/black stripe =  TCC or shift light, well i have neither so that should be no problem

Pink/Black stripe: Ign feed, well obviously im just splicing this into the 86 ign feed wire

Purple: VATS is the only one i found that was solid purple but dont remember seeing a PIN for it when i was connected to the ALDL port

Brown: VSS, im not sure if i even want to bother with this one, because the tires on it are quite smaller than the original, and i think it would give an incorrect reading anyway, and i was running for over a year with it reading wrong, so other than maybe throwing a code i dont think i need it.

Tan/white: Fuel pump relay, this will just go to a firewall relay that will turn on the inline pump on the frame, which brings me to my next topic:

I am going to have to end up swapping the fuel pump in about a week, but after reading abunch of online TBI swap threads, some say the E8135 will work @ 35GPH and 10-14PSI.  but i will be ordering https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p5001

Specs are 20PSI MAX at 50GPH again MAX, but the internal regulator should push whatever isnt being used back to the tank.. correct?? i have read of more than probably 50 people in offroad forums that swear by the E2000 pump that can put out almost 95PSI but the excess is rerouted to the tank...

I would of course be keeping the E8135 as an emergency trail pump, and i know someone is gonna say " just do it the right way the first time" and if i had the time/$$ i would, but to get the P5001 around here (really small town like less than 3K pop) they want $120 for it, and i need to have it running by saturday morning/early afternoon, because friday night the 6.2L will be incapacitated and pulled to be picked up saturday by the buyers, so i figured for the same price of the P5001 locally, i can use the smaller pump to "put put" to the factory (only 3 miles) until the P5001  arrives and i get a backup pump for the same cost...


Right now once the TCase is bolted to the cross member all i should need to do:
Install battery
Install fan
Install PCM
Install Radiator
Install Trans cooler (its got a oil cooler but thats probably going to the the V20 as i dont have the hookups for the oil cooler on the TBI)
Install A/C pump ( later)
Install Tcase shifter
Connect Trans and Tcase linkage
Install driveshafts and new u-joint(s)
Install fuel pump
Install Relays
Splice needed wires to existing harness
Replace any dim headlights

Fill Oil
Fill Trans
Fill Tcase
Fill Rad

I think thats about it..
I want to have it ready for cranking tomorrow, but wont be paid till friday to buy all the fluids.


Fill trans/cooler



Oh there was a 6pin connector right next to the PCM but it doesnt go into the PCM, it actually goes left to the drivers area, anyone know what that runs to?
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2017, 07:06:56 PM »
here is a PDF i found on the IH swap page that they use for swapping the GM TBI into them...

Is this pretty much all i "need" to have it run in an off road rig?
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

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Re: I bit the bullet this weekend V20 burb to K5 swap
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2017, 01:06:48 AM »
Ok so i was looking at these wiring diagrams from autozone for up to 87 engine bays, and i dont have the ECM 1 or ECM B fuse or the orange constantly hot wire coming out of the 86 fusebox, and i dont feel like trying to do any transplanting or splicing of any of that wiring,

So I do have the pink/black wire lead coming from the Gauge/idle fuse in the 86, is there any reason to not run that splice into that switched 12V and run a wire to a set of fused relays then connect the ECM 1/B TBI harness wires to those relays with an inline fuse for each one?

Also is there a preferred source of 12V constant to pull for the ECM "memory" or can i run a fused line right from the battery +, or the junction on the firewall?
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14