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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: bdog on January 26, 2009, 12:46:42 PM

Title: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: bdog on January 26, 2009, 12:46:42 PM
My 83 short wide 2wd has a goodwrench crate 350 in it. I am not sure how many miles it has but it runs ok, no smoke, noises, etc.  I am looking to upgrade the performance of my truck and am not sure what is the best route. I have up to 4k to spend on it.

1) heads, cam, intake, carb  - cheapest route but not sure of the condition of the engine

2) swap in big block - major cool factor but maybe a hassle in changing over accessories

3) Buy a crate souped up small block

Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: frogman68 on January 26, 2009, 12:50:16 PM
You can get a decent 383 for half that and just drop it in

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-383-410HP-420FTLBS-STROKER-ENGINE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a15Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem200300809093QQitemZ200300809093QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: eventhorizon66 on January 26, 2009, 01:15:16 PM
I'm in the same boat.  I have a Goodwrench engine and I want more power.  The fact that your engine doesn't smoke and runs good are indications that you can reuse the short block.

I plan on reusing the complete shortblock when I go for more power.  But I will most likely tear it all apart to check all my bearing clearances, relieve all the major block oil passages and drain back holes, blueprint the pump, and give the cylinders a little clean-up hone.  Then I'll reassemble with a fresh set of rings.  Even with the cast pistons, I figure it can put up with 350-400 hp in a street engine.

From there I'll look for a pair of aftermarket 64cc chamber heads; maybe a set of vortecs if I want to be really cheap.  But I'm really leaning towards (in order of preference) A) EQ 180cc heads B) Dart Iron Eagle 180cc C) World SR/Torquers 170cc.  In case you aren't familiar with the EQ heads here (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0710phr_small_block_engine_build/index.html) is a PHR article covering a David Vizard build featuring these awesome heads.  You can buy them bare direct from Engine Quest (http://www.aaeq.net/Enginequest/Cylinder_heads) or assembled from Shaver Racing (http://www.shaverengines.com/EQLIGHTNING.html).

As far as a cam goes I'll try to find room in the budget for a hyd roller in the 224 @ 0.05 duration range and have it ground on a 108 LCA.  I'll definitely use 1.6:1 rockers on the intake side, as well, shooting for .530" to .540" lift.  With the 64cc heads and a 0.015 shim head gasket, the compression will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10:1, so I could go more for overlap if I want to.  But I'm gonna start small and work my way up.  And if a hyd roller doesn't fit in the budget, I'll just go with something along the lines of a Comp Magnum 270 - ground on a 108 LCA, of course.

For carb, I'll try to play with my Edelbrock 600 cfm, but as soon as a Holley 750 pops up for the right price I'm gonna go for it.  I'll also try out my current Performer EPS manifold on the new combination, but as soon as I find a nice RPM air-gap for real cheap, I'll make the swap.

At any rate, I'm shooting for about $2000 for the whole shootin' match and I think that's reasonable.  Really it'll be $3000 because I'll rebuild my 700R4 and go with about a 2500 stall converter at the same time.

So after that, you can see I'm in favor building your own engine.  Probably because I've never done it before and have no idea how much work it is, LOL.  Good luck.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: Captkaos on January 26, 2009, 01:15:52 PM
Are you wanting to upgrade the current setup or get a new one.  With 4K on had you could do the later cheaper.
If you want to do upgrades, check the Tech pages for the Goodwrench crate build.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: cracker0169 on January 26, 2009, 02:49:35 PM
For 4K you could find a late model LS motor and drop it in. Pick up some power and lose some weight all at the same time. You could probably get by with less than 2k in the motor and then spend a little extra on upgrades including tranny...
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: Captkaos on January 26, 2009, 02:54:55 PM
For 4K you could find a late model LS motor and drop it in. Pick up some power and lose some weight all at the same time. You could probably get by with less than 2k in the motor and then spend a little extra on upgrades including tranny...
That is what I was going at...  Cheaper, better mileage, better power....  Just better.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: eventhorizon66 on January 26, 2009, 03:08:20 PM
The only problem is, if you want significantly more power than they came with stock, the cost goes up dramatically.  If you want 400+ hp and you all ready have a good 350 core it will be cheaper to build that.

That said, you will still have an engine that is carbureted and can't achieve the gas mileage or streetability of an LS motor.  So if you are leaning toward replacing the 350 all together, then, yes definitely consider an LS swap.  You can buy a good used LQ9, custom tune, headers, a TR224 cam, pushrods, and springs, and have real nice 400-420 hp motor for less than $4000.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: SUX2BU99 on January 26, 2009, 03:21:56 PM
With that kind of budget, he should get a performance crate 350 or maybe even a 383 that should for sure produce between 350-400 HP. Already built, just swap n' go. Minimal downtime. And if the motor he has now is good, then sell it and recoup maybe $1k of that cost.

Event, that sounds like an awesome plan you have. 400 HP should be a done deal with that setup.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: VileZambonie on January 26, 2009, 05:37:17 PM
If your 350 is in good shape and you have $4k to spend do this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=VOR%2D4GP218%2D038SQ&N=700+4294839032+4294925022+4294908216+4294840140+4294839808+115&autoview=sku
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: eventhorizon66 on January 26, 2009, 06:16:25 PM
LOL.  That's the easy way out.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: choptop on January 26, 2009, 06:32:56 PM
If your 350 is in good shape and you have $4k to spend do this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=VOR%2D4GP218%2D038SQ&N=700+4294839032+4294925022+4294908216+4294840140+4294839808+115&autoview=sku


I second that!!!!!
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: bdog on January 26, 2009, 11:02:29 PM
Well I have been doing some more research. I have 4k to spend, but who says I have to spend it all?

What about this http://www.sdpc2000.com/product/SD8060AG/VortecHeadKitEdelbrockPerformerRPMAirGap.aspx  A vortec head kit complete with intake.

That would set me back about $900 and then I could spend $600 on a carb, cam and headers and I should be at around 400 hp according to the tech article for $1500. If the bottom end gives way down the road I could easily spring for a new short block.. Thoughts?
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: joesgarage71 on January 27, 2009, 10:17:59 AM
swap in big block - major cool factor
4 grand would buy a nice BB
"Theres no replacement for displacement" Check out viles thread in members projects!
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: Lt.Del on January 27, 2009, 07:23:20 PM
 383 Stroker !  (http://www.delbridge.net/install)
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: SUX2BU99 on January 28, 2009, 10:12:35 PM
Well I have been doing some more research. I have 4k to spend, but who says I have to spend it all?

What about this http://www.sdpc2000.com/product/SD8060AG/VortecHeadKitEdelbrockPerformerRPMAirGap.aspx  A vortec head kit complete with intake.

That would set me back about $900 and then I could spend $600 on a carb, cam and headers and I should be at around 400 hp according to the tech article for $1500. If the bottom end gives way down the road I could easily spring for a new short block.. Thoughts?

Not a bad price but you can buy RHS Vortecs or the Dart Iron Eagles and an Air Gap intake for about that, AND you get 0.525" lift valve springs. Those stock GM Vortecs will really limit your cam choices unless you buy new valve springs and have them installed. And for sure, if you don't NEED to spend it all and don't mind buying pieces to make a package to have installed, then following what Event suggested is a good plan.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: Russ130 on January 30, 2009, 11:09:09 PM
I'd go with #2 or #3 and favor #2. Forget about building a motor if you can buy one with the same output already built. The motor you have probably has dished pistons and you are going to want flat tops to increase the compression and therefore the power. So now your looking at a master kit and sending the block out for some work. You can call that a grand right there. Why bother just get the best you can afford for your budget already built and you'll be better off. If you have enough for a 454 or better then get it cause down the road if you really want something insane that would be the foundation to start with. Just my .02
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: campcrf on February 09, 2009, 10:40:47 PM
i suggest to build the bottom end very well, then you are open to all sorts of options....   dart pro heads work very well for a well built bottom end with an air gap wiend intake...
        ( if you build a 4 bolt bottom end with forged everything properly, later on down the road it will handle "almost" everything you want to throw at it)     ....   just my 2 cents   ....
   Good luck on your build.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: hilton850 on February 10, 2009, 04:29:51 PM
If you're looking for power and you have a little money to spend check out the dyno numbers for chevy small blocks at the AFR website....http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php

I have a set of these on a 383 and they are very impressive.  I don't have much experience with other aftermarket heads but I know these absolutely blow the doors off stock heads.  bolt on a set of the 180 cc heads, edelbrock performer RPM air gap intake, comp cams 280H cam (or the roller version if your budget allows for a little more power) get a good carb and set of headers....you'll be looking at well over 400 hp and good torque too. this is basically the 350 dyno test at the top of the AFR page.  I like the 406 combos myself.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: campcrf on February 10, 2009, 05:55:12 PM
wow hilton... you have a very good set up aswell... good to hear people are still building these strokers... 
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: choptop on February 10, 2009, 07:30:10 PM
This was my $3500 engine upgrade   ;D
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: 78 Chevyrado on February 10, 2009, 07:40:13 PM
This was my $3500 engine upgrade   ;D

Hey man it's all covered in ecto-plasm!     J/K  looks like more than $3500...
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: choptop on February 10, 2009, 08:09:18 PM
This was my $3500 engine upgrade   ;D

Hey man it's all covered in ecto-plasm!     J/K  looks like more than $3500...
I really lucked out on this one. The guy had more than twice that in it, but didnt put out enough horsepower for him.(Measly 425 hp) Its enough for my choptop tho
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: eventhorizon66 on February 10, 2009, 09:38:55 PM
Very lucky find, chop!  But I wonder how you can put $7K into a big block and still end up with only 425hp (even though that's nothing to sneeze at).  Is it a 396?  Low compression?  Smallish cam?  Those are aluminum heads, right?  Considering an initial investment of only $3500, I wouldn't be able to keep myself from figuring out how I can close in on 500+ hp, especially if it's a 454.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: choptop on February 11, 2009, 08:04:06 AM
Standard bore 427 4 bolt main, steel crank, Rehr Morrison race prepped closed chambered heads,( I wish they were aluminum) balanced & blueprinted rotating assembly, 7/16 rods, Keith Black Hyperutectic pistons weight to within one gram tolerance, the block has been decked .100 and the intake and heads are flow matched. It has Erson Roller Rockers with stainless steel valves, a 280 H cam with matching springs, an Edelbrock 2-0 intake with a Holley 750. Its wasnt built for high hp, it was built for longevity. I asked the same question to the guy I bought it from, his answer was " Do you want to thrash on 500 horse for a few hours or 400 horse all day?" He explained that this engine has more horsepower at lower rpms (2300-4500) than most engine pruducing 500hp or better. I think peak hp on it is 5300 rpms.
  It was built by a race shop here locally. I really cant change much with out having to have something machined such as the intake. Every component is matched to another
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: hilton850 on February 11, 2009, 09:37:06 AM
choptop, sounds like a sweet setup.  I'd love to put a 427 in my old truck...to me those engines have the most nostagia and are kind of unique.  Do you have it in your truck already?  I bet it feels like more than 425 horse because of the torque.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: eventhorizon66 on February 11, 2009, 12:13:02 PM
Agreed, 425hp in a 427, isn't the same as 425hp in a 350.  MUCH more meat under that torque curve.  But my answer to the question posed would be "I want to thrash on 500hp all day...of course."
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: choptop on February 11, 2009, 02:47:23 PM
Agreed, 425hp in a 427, isn't the same as 425hp in a 350.  MUCH more meat under that torque curve.  But my answer to the question posed would be "I want to thrash on 500hp all day...of course."

I agree. This engine is built more for longevity than anything else. Kinda like a bigblock for the circle track.
Title: Re: $4000 to spend on engine upgrade
Post by: SUX2BU99 on February 12, 2009, 01:35:57 PM
Sounds like an awesome engine to me! I would love love love a 427 in my truck. That's my favorite engine size (whether it be Ford or GM). Just something about those numbers 4 2 7 say performance to me.