Rebuilding transmission

[DnStClr]

So NativeTexan, did we ever figure out which tranny you have? Is your truck a 3 speed or does it have overdrive?

[nativetexan]

Okay, I got under there again to verify the trans. It is a 700R4 and I talked to my brother in law (my sister in law's husband) that told me his dad might be willing to help me rebuild it on our own. He has more than enough experience to do it and that is realy the way I want to go with this truck. Hands on, doin as much as I can myself. Soo, if he comes through, this is probably what I will end up doing.
As for the rebuild kit, I found this one on Summitracing. ::
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TCI%2D379100&N=700+4294854624+4294908216+4294925008+4294903956+4294854612+115&autoview=sku
Is this enough to rebuild a transmission with well over 200,000 miles on it??

And as for the TC. I found this performance one at summit as well::
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BMM%2D70419&N=700+4294865449+4294908216+4294903956+4294865415+4294791122+4294925008+4294865443+115&autoview=sku
Is this a good choice?? If not, anyone have a better one in mind??
Thanks for all the input already. You guys rock!

[Captkaos]

I think you want this one if it is bad, it should have everything in it.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TCI%2D378800&N=700+4294854624+4294903956+115&autoview=sku

As for a stall, I wouldn't run a 2400 stall behind a stock pickup, I would just replace it with a stock one.  If your are rebuilding it yourself and the stall is good, just reuse it...

[nativetexan]

I think you want this one if it is bad, it should have everything in it.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TCI%2D378800&N=700+4294854624+4294903956+115&autoview=sku

As for a stall, I wouldn't run a 2400 stall behind a stock pickup, I would just replace it with a stock one.  If your are rebuilding it yourself and the stall is good, just reuse it...

Is the only thing different about the two kits the shift kit? Cause i've read on here that a shift kit causes more wear and tear on the trans. Is this true? Also, why not a 2400 stall? It wont be stock for long. Im thinkin about the ZZ383 from GM to go in place of the 350 L05. Does that change your opinion? Is that what you meant by stock?

[VileZambonie]

You can buy a performance converter for half that price at your transmission parts supplier. Find out who your local trans builders buy their parts from you'd be amazed. Your master overhaul kit you can get for less than a hundred bucks and the most essential other things you will need is a piston compressor, a seal installer and an ATSG 700R4 book. You should upgrade the servo and modify the PR valve. A shift kit is a good thing not a bad thing unless you buy one of those cheesy B&M shift improver kits that just holds tv pressure longer and gives you a harsh shift. Your trans supply shop should be able to give you all of the necessary upgrades too. You should ID your trans and find out exactly what year 700R4 you have also. If you search the posts you'll see where to properly ID the 700R4 and how to decode it.

[nativetexan]

You can buy a performance converter for half that price at your transmission parts supplier. Find out who your local trans builders buy their parts from you'd be amazed. Your master overhaul kit you can get for less than a hundred bucks and the most essential other things you will need is a piston compressor, a seal installer and an ATSG 700R4 book. You should upgrade the servo and modify the PR valve. A shift kit is a good thing not a bad thing unless you buy one of those cheesy B&M shift improver kits that just holds tv pressure longer and gives you a harsh shift. Your trans supply shop should be able to give you all of the necessary upgrades too. You should ID your trans and find out exactly what year 700R4 you have also. If you search the posts you'll see where to properly ID the 700R4 and how to decode it.

Okay,
lets brake this down for me. (Im a newb so we gotta go slow)

1)Look for a torque converter localy instead of dishin out the extra cheddar for a mail order one. One that is somewhere in the 2000 rpm stall range(??)

2)the master overhaul kit you refer to is the ... transmission rebuild kit? If so where can I get one for under $100?

3)Whet the crap is a piston compressor!?

4) get a rear seal installer like this one:: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WMR%2DW84019&N=700+321602+115&autoview=sku and replace my rear seal. and get a service book on my transmission.

5)what does a servo do and can I bolt it on after the tranny is rebuilt. What do you think about this one here:: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TCI%2D376005&N=700+305398+4294903956+115&autoview=sku

6)What is a PR valve? 

7) can you recomend a shift kit, and will there be things from the rebuild kit that i wont use if I do a shift kit? I guess what I mean is, if I do a rebuild and the do a shift kit (hypotheticly) will I be taking parts from the rebuild out and putting parts from the shift kit in their place?

 Sorry i'm a high maintanence poster but like I said, i'm a newb.

[Captkaos]

I think what Vile is indicating is to get everything locally.
That is where my buddy that rebuilt transmissions got his.  He worked for a dealership and the company supplied transmission parts to all of them, that is where he got all of his stuff.  Short of rebuilding the pump, he could go through a TH350 and the kit to rebuild it cost him $65.  He would sell them for $275.  So, I would suggest getting everything locally, unless there isn't a place.

1)You can have your stall check out, I wouldn't replace it if it isn't bad.  I had one chopped and rebuilt for $75.
2) master overhaul it a complete rebuild kit. (look locally)
3) tool to compress the components into the drum...  this is one: http://www.thepartsbin.com/cartools/transmission-clutch_spring_compressor-d.html
4) that is a rear main seal remover for an engine.
5)Servo tightens the band on the transmission, it is replaced after the rebuild
6)See Viles explination below.......
7) Transgo makes a good shift kit.

http://www.technicalvideos.com/ has videos and manuals on how to rebuild a trans.
This is a tech article on rebuilding a TH350: http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild/116_9508_th350_automatic_transmission_rebuild_buildup/

[VileZambonie]

I am going to go in my garage right now and make a lip seal installer in about 30 seconds of my time and I'll take pix. I will also take pix of the piston compressor you will need to remove the low reverse piston. You should also have some really good LONG snap ring pliers.

PR= Pressure Regulator it is in the pump housing. Your TV boost valve is there also. TV means Throttle Valve. The 700R4 uses TV pressure and governer pressure to control shifts. TV pressure is directly proportional to driver demand and is derived from main line pressure. Main line pressure comes from the pump and  PR assembly. Basically TV pressure VS Governer pressure. Governer pressure is directly proportional to road speed or output speed. When TV pressure overcomes governer pressure it forces a downshift. When Gov pressure rises above TV pressure an upshift occurs.

You can enlarge the orifice behind the front pump seal to 1/4" too to help prevent converter bushing failure and front seal leakage.

The Servo is used to apply the intermediate (second gear) band which holds the drum. You don't have to buy a new servo just buy a servo kit. Using your existing servo you will reverse and eliminate a few select parts and install new spring. This will fuction the same as your "high performance" one for about $20 bucks.

ID what year your trans is = very important.

Get yourself some trans Gel or a tub of vaseline, no not for that for assembly. DO NOT USE GREASE!

Finally get the ATSG book this will be your best investment. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ATSG-TECH-MANUAL-700R4-1982-THRU-1986-GMC-CHEVY_W0QQitemZ260118926884QQcmdZViewItem

All of this stuff can be bought at your transmission parts distributor. I use Dean Transmission parts.... http://www.deantransmission.com/ in Mass or
I also use Portland Transmission in RI

I will go make the seal installer and take pix now.

[VileZambonie]

Here is how you make a simple lip seal installer.
All you need is some MIG wire and a piece of brake line.



Cut a piece of mig wire and loop it into the end of the pipe.


Crush it in the vise.


Make the other end smaller for tighter seals.


Here is the piston compressor.

[nativetexan]

So, wouldn't a higher stall converter be better later on down the road, especially with the trans-go shift kit? I thought the upgrade would be worth it in the long run.
As for the actual rebuild, hopefuley my friend will come through, and his dad will help me out. If not I will probably try it myself. How hard can it be right ?
Im taking notes though so keep the suggestions and opinions coming.

Big thanks to the Capt and Vile for the extra help in breakin down all the tech talk. 

[VileZambonie]

Higher stall = worse fuel economy. You can launch better in racing applications but if you are going for medium performance don't go too far over stock if you want to still daily drive it. I have a high stall converter in my GMC and while it's awesome I'm lucky if I put 200 miles a year on it.

[nativetexan]

oh this wont be a daily driver, but might want to make a 50 mile trip here and there. guess I will stay around the 2000 rpm range.

Also, is there any info that is out there on how to replace the rear seal?

[nativetexan]

okay, it's been a while but, I got some crappy news. My friend's dad bailed out and wont do the rebuild. He says that R4s are crappy trans. and that he wouldn't feel good doing the rebuild because he can guarantee that I will have problems with it. And since we are 400mls away he doesn't want that to happen.

so, back to the drawing board.

What are my other options as far as other trannies to put in my 87. I thought the R4 is the only thing that will go since I have overdrive and lockup.

any suggestions would be cool.

[Captkaos]

look around locally for someone to rebuild the 700R4.  They acquired a nasty reputation from 1982 - 1986 because, well they were not reliable.  By 1988 all of the upgrades were there.  They are good transmissions, and if you want overdrive you only have one other option, and that is a 200R4.  They came behind 305's in the G-bodies (cutlass, Monte Carlo, Regal) They can be built to handle a good amount of power also.

You can put any transmission in the truck; TH350, TH400, 700R4, 200R4, but if you want overdrive for mileage, you need either of the last 2.  Since it already had a 700R4 in it, I would get one of those and it would require no modifications to the truck.

[VileZambonie]

Find someone who has confidence in their abilities. Any decent trans tech has gone through several 700R4's.