73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: chevymotocross on June 25, 2009, 03:40:09 PM
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Will soon be finishing up the body work on my 87 truck. I want to eventually drop a fresh crate engine once money builds up again. Currently, the truck sports a stock 305 with some bolt ons (bumped up fuel pressure, tbi spacer, injector spacer, dual exhaust). Healthy 700r4. The engine runs well but it does have quite a few miles on it, smokes on startup as well. Plus.... the 305 is a slug.
I was checking out the GM Performance crate engines. The warranty they come with are awesome. I am thinking to either upgrade to the stock L05 350 truck engine or few just a few hundred more, upgrade to a 1996+ style 350 with vortec heads and roller cam.
I am sure either engine I go with will offer more performance than my 305. Which should I go with? I want to keep the TBI and get decent mileage with some power to play with as well. I know the L05 has the same crappy swirl port heads like my 305 and the whimpy flat tappet cam.
How well are the vortec 350's in stock form? Is the stock cam decent? Is it night and day compared to the L05? I know I well have to buy a TBI to vortec manifold which is like $400. What else would need to be done (besides a chip upgrade of course)?
Oh, I have thought about a 383, but they are more in the $3500 range...... I don't want to spend that much.
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Between those two motors, I would favor the L31. You'd be getting the best production Gen1 heads chevy ever made and a roller cam.
Have you also considered picking up a used LM7 5.3L engine? It will be more involved, but my guess is you will be happier with the end result. Around here you can pick up a <50K mi 5.3L for $750-900. From there you have the option of upgrading to a 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L80E, or just keeping your 700R4. If I could go back in time, before I swapped my 305 for a Goodwrench 350, this is what I would do.
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Between those two motors, I would favor the L31. You'd be getting the best production Gen1 heads chevy ever made and a roller cam.
Have you also considered picking up a used LM7 5.3L engine? It will be more involved, but my guess is you will be happier with the end result. Around here you can pick up a <50K mi 5.3L for $750-900. From there you have the option of upgrading to a 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L80E, or just keeping you 700R4. If I could go back in time, before I swapped my 305 for a Goodwrench 350, this is what I would do.
I have considered this. I have also had the opportunity to purchase TPI engines with complete harnesses. Thing is, I really don't want to get that involved, I basically want to just swap engines, minor tweaking if necessary, and be done with it. I give respect to those who have done those types of swaps, but it is something I don't think I would want to tackle.
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if me i would go carb/hei, dont get much more reliable than that!!!!! k.i.s.s...if you do shopping and do the work yourself you could have a good reliable 350 for 2000-3000 bux..but you'll have to build yourself. which is not hard with the right tools..read and research you could get a smogged out 350 change pistons for higher compression and some minor port work
decent cam and utilize your current pulleys brackets..good free flowing exhaust and carburation will net you a good solid 350 horse small block that you can get in and drive normal or have a little throttle on tap if needed...
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Although going carb would probably allow making more power easier and probably cheaper than TBI.... I want to stick with the TBI system.
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I would go with the L31 vortec, get the required intake manifold and Chip, plumb the EGR from the exhaust manifold, and be done with it.
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Between those two motors, I would favor the L31. You'd be getting the best production Gen1 heads chevy ever made and a roller cam.
Have you also considered picking up a used LM7 5.3L engine? It will be more involved, but my guess is you will be happier with the end result. Around here you can pick up a <50K mi 5.3L for $750-900. From there you have the option of upgrading to a 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L80E, or just keeping your 700R4. If I could go back in time, before I swapped my 305 for a Goodwrench 350, this is what I would do.
Event, I'm curious as to why you chose going for a 260 HP 350 crate and not instead step to at least the 330-horse Vortec-head motor. Was it cost?
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Event, I'm curious as to why you chose going for a 260 HP 350 crate and not instead step to at least the 330-horse Vortec-head motor. Was it cost?
I'm curious too. Brain fart, I guess. But yes cost was a factor. Unfortunately, now I'm in a position where I want a set of Vortec heads and a larger cam, if I keep this gen 1 SBC >:(. Otherwise, I'll do what I suggested above and swap in a gen 3. Fortunately, a complete lack of excess funds gives me some time to think about it, LOL.
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Captkaos has a link to the Car Craft article where they modified the 260 HP crate motor. You could start off with the 260HP and modify it when the budget allows you to.
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Captkaos has a link to the Car Craft article where they modified the 260 HP crate motor. You could start off with the 260HP and modify it when the budget allows you to.
I know. It's actually Chevy High Performance that did the series "The Goodwrench Quest." I even have all the physical copies of these articles buried in a box somewhere. It's something along the lines of part 5 (http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46370_gm_350_crate_engine_build_v/index.html) I would shoot towards, if I end up keeping the Gen 1 engine.
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i found a 350 short lock on ebay for like 2500 maybe a little less. its for pre 88 trucks with tbi. its 300-320 hp.
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How are the emissions testing in CT ?. Can you get away with running a carb on your 87. In Ma the just changed the laws so that anything 1995 or older just needs the safety inspection, they don't check the emissions.
I know most people now want to run FI but I still think that a carb is the cheap way to make power.
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Jeeze, get a used caddy motor out of a 68-76 eldo, $5-600, BOP style turbo 400 - $500, swap out valve springs and put a new timing chain on it, and have more tq and hp than most crate engines for less than $1500....weighs about the same as the small block too.
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i bought my 383 from this guy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEV-383-335HP-VORTEC-CRATE-ENGINE-BY-TUFF-DAWG-ENGINES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem1e57a39c3aQQitemZ130319359034QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQQsalenotsupported (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEV-383-335HP-VORTEC-CRATE-ENGINE-BY-TUFF-DAWG-ENGINES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem1e57a39c3aQQitemZ130319359034QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQQsalenotsupported)
Look at his feedback. It says it all. And, oh, free shipping and no taxes like what you'd pay at a GM dealer. See his other engines for sale...a bunch of them.
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I see no mention of a flexplate included in the deal. I thought the balanced rotating assembly had to have that as well? I also doubt the smooth idle with that much lift. I also don't see a dyno chart showing the actual output. All that said, that's not really a bad price for something you put an intake, carb, distributor, and a few other little things on and fire up.
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Just curious about eveyone's opinion on another crate 350---this one is more of truck engine, well really it IS a truck engine:
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Goodwrench-1987-95-350-Truck-Engine/753961/10002/-1
It's a few hundred$$$ more than the regular crate 350 and the torque and hp are lower as well. But much higher compression probably means better mpg? Plus, i tend to use the truck for hauling and transportation, not performance.
Just only curious about opinions for interesting's sake as the cheapest way for me is to probably keep the 305 and/or rebuild the 350.
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This one is cheaper and more HP for towing/haulin'
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Goodwrench-1970-85-350-Engine-Packages/752506/10002/-1
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I don't like either of those crates, Stewart. You should rebuild your 350 with vortec heads and 18cc dish pistons. Have the block zero decked to arrive at about 9:1 CR with those pistons. Then go with a modest cam and adapt a junkyard TBI setup. You'll be hittin 20 mpg on 87 with 300 hp.
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I don't like either of those crates, Stewart. You should rebuild your 350 with vortec heads and 18cc dish pistons. Have the block zero decked to arrive at about 9:1 CR with those pistons. Then go with a modest cam and adapt a junkyard TBI setup. You'll be hittin 20 mpg on 87 with 300 hp.
Sure you can do the above for about 23 hundred dollars, or go with the crate engine for 16 and have a 3 yr or 100K warranty.
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or you can go here http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?hid=C26DK73495
and pick this little baby up for
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?pid=CT350PC1&c=0&e=1&cat=C&hid=C26DK73495&trk=
(http://www.yearone.com/images/parts/cl_cz/ct350pc1.jpg)
Engine Specifications:
* Horsepower: 400+
* Torque: 400+ ft/lbs
* Compression ratio: 9.5:1
* Dyno-tested: Yes, includes balancer and 14" flexplate
* Dyno sheet: Included with engine's output
* Vacuum produced: 12hg @ 800RPM
* Recommended fuel: 92 octane
* Max recommended RPM- 6000
* Block: Seasoned 4-bolt iron
* Crankshaft: Nodular iron
* Pistons: Hypereutectic
* Connecting rods: Powdered metal
* Camshaft- Hydraulic roller
* Valve lift:.520"
* Duration @ .050" (int/exh): 218deg/228deg
* Rocker arms: Stamped steel 1.6:1 ratio
* Cylinder heads: Ported Vortec
* Valves: Stainless steel 2.02 int/1.60 exh
* Valve springs: Heavy duty
* Bore x Stroke: 4.030" x 3.48"
* Intake manifold: Dual-plane aluminum
* Oil pan, timing cover, valve covers included
* Engine fasteners: High tensile strength
* Warranty: 12 mth/12,000 mi
FOR ONLY 3K
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I don't like either of those crates, Stewart. You should rebuild your 350 with vortec heads and 18cc dish pistons. Have the block zero decked to arrive at about 9:1 CR with those pistons. Then go with a modest cam and adapt a junkyard TBI setup. You'll be hittin 20 mpg on 87 with 300 hp.
Sure you can do the above for about 23 hundred dollars, or go with the crate engine for 16 and have a 3 yr or 100K warranty.
LOL, the only thing the warranty on my Goodwrench engine means to me is that this piece of crap is guaranteed for 3 yrs. The heads are garbage, the compression is so low you could run 81 octane, and the performance is dismal. If we are comparing long block to long block, Stewart could rebuild his 350 with vortec heads for less money than a new Goodwrench 350 (it was low mileage so all he needs is some machine work, new bearings, and rings). The vortec heads would not only improve performance (to the tune of 20-30 ft-lbs everywhere in the rpm band) but also mpg. They are light years ahead of the heads used on the Goodwrench motor.
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i'll definitely consider the new heads----i have a hunch one of them is/was warped. And yes, i'm definitely going to rebuild the crate, it's just a question of when.
What i was mainly asking, mainly just because i was interested, not because i was seriously thinking about purchasing, was the differences between the basic "universal" crate 350 we all know and love (except event) versus the "truck" crate 350.
i'm thinking the truck crate is more a low rpm torquer, whereas the crate 350 is more livelier?
P.S., will the vortech heads bolt on with no issues? I.e., will stock pre-87 manifolds bolt on without any modifications?
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LOL, the only thing the warranty on my Goodwrench engine means to me is that this piece of crap is guaranteed for 3 yrs.
Well Mr. knowitall why did you buy one then if its a piece of crap. ::)
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P.S., will the vortech heads bolt on with no issues? I.e., will stock pre-87 manifolds bolt on without any modifications?
Nah, you'll need a new manifold too. Unless you get some of those RHS which I believe can take either one. Summit has some cast iron heads that aren't too $$$.
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LOL, the only thing the warranty on my Goodwrench engine means to me is that this piece of crap is guaranteed for 3 yrs.
Well Mr. knowitall why did you buy one then if its a piece of crap. ::)
Because, Mr. Wanttoknowitall, I didn't realize it would be such a piece of crap at the time. :P :P :P
I was just going on alot of (bad) advice I had recieved. Now I try to spread the gospel so some else doesn't make the same mistake.
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i'm thinking the truck crate is more a low rpm torquer, whereas the crate 350 is more livelier?
Both are intended as potential truck replacements. The more expensive one is a stock replacement for 87-95 TBI truck engines, whereas the cheaper one is for pre '87 applications. The Universal 350 is fine for someone who doesn't care about power or efficiency and just wants "any old" 350 to drop in. But for me it's just a really expensive stock short block, because the heads are garbage. The reason I so strongly recommend the vortec heads (or dart iron eagle 165cc, or World S/R torquer) for you, Stewart, is because I know you are not someone who is indifferent to efficiency.
Also, rumor has it the the Summit heads TexasRed mentioned are just reboxed/rebranded Dart Iron Eagle SS 165cc heads. Which are very good heads for engines in the 250-350hp range. I would be wary of using heads that are "Vortec" with both early and late bolt patterns, though. The manifold may bolt up fine, but there is a significant difference in the shape of vortec intake ports compared to earlier castings. The port alignment is bound to be poor and may be so far off that port matching is impossible, depending on the manifold used.