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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Diesel Engine Discussion => Topic started by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 08:32:49 AM

Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 08:32:49 AM
I've got this k20 that was a 6.2 but now has a 6.5 td in it, I just got it and it has a biodiesel tank at the rear of the truck and a bunch of bs in between, I need to eliminate the biodiesel set up and I'm only using the passenger side tank and deleting the selector valve. I think there is a fuel heater of some sort because as you will see in the pics I have some massive hoses off these little solenoids that go straight to the therm housing into the head. Any info on this setup would be appreciated, or pictures of how the heater hoses should be routed along with the fuel hoses!! Thanks a bunch (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/86f5bc2d69e36f0ec3fb03f41ad9e881.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/3c92820e09332d14d6431b2c235218b2.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/cff569aa1add6daace065e216b89bbf8.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/6abb14a120306da6559c78a7e8c51cc8.jpg)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 20, 2016, 11:22:43 AM
Honestly, I would ditch the model 80 fuel filter(what is on the firewall) and get the FFM(Fuel Filter Manager) for the 6.5. OR get a remote spin-on

either way, you should have 1 line going to filter from the fuel tank, 1 line out(2 if using the 6.5 system-one would be for a water drain, the model 80 should already have that built in) going to the injection pump. then one line running back to the tank(this is your return, should be 5/16" line)

I honestly don't know whats going on with all the heater hoses, you need 1 coming from the coolant crossover to the heater core, then one coming from the heater core to the radiator. It does look like you will need to plug one port on the crossover, as it looks like someone drilled and tapped it for the extra lines, the reddish line towards the bottom of the pile should be the original heater hose going to heater core
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 11:38:34 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/5a7aac63cf42ad0a9ed92cc87012dac2.jpg)i did find the stanadyne filter housing under the truck, this will replace my firewall one at some point in the near future, I need to pull it and clean it up


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 20, 2016, 12:58:13 PM
Oh, wow, bring that up front drop it back behind the intake, than it would be pretty simple to rewire for the fuel heater and wif sensor, following a wire diagram, I will recommend getting new seals while it is out and replace the bypass filter in it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CK-sd49yRiY

Then the wif and heater sensors both have an o-ring that go bad, you can try matching up at Napa, just make sure it is a bit on seal, most o
thers fail shortly after use with the diesel fuel

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 02:01:15 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/235ca1667ae5bd6c69ea69c2edffe7b9.jpg)

It was a make shift water jacket around the bio diesel line.... Pretty sketchy lol


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 02:10:32 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/5202066b7791f3461e80fec0614eff27.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/3717fd618bbe866c828f4c6ff926e46f.jpg)

I have a line at the rear of the I take and also one off the injector return hard line, not sure where it goes :/ please help lol this system is a joke


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 20, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/5202066b7791f3461e80fec0614eff27.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/3717fd618bbe866c828f4c6ff926e46f.jpg)

I have a line at the rear of the I take and also one off the injector return hard line, not sure where it goes :/ please help lol this system is a joke


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OK, so first pic, one line(right on in pic) goes to top of injection pump, the other line runs to a hard-line(this is a short hard-line and runs under the intake, it returns to soft near rear passenger side valve cover). Both are part of the return system.

Second pic, the line exiting between intake runners should be the return, this is 5/16" and should go straight to the fuel tank. However the supply line could be routed there too, that should be 1/4", unless he changed the fitting on the injection pump.

At this point it may be easier to remove the intake so you can see everything. And I'll try taking some pics and marking out what should be what., my engine is out, but I think I could provide some better explanation.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 03:00:47 PM
Thanks for all you're help, I'm getting it almost to where it needs to be! (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/378efe0df10775b9a6df1c0fde3eb59c.jpg)

Much cleaner in the bay now


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 20, 2016, 04:54:33 PM
looking much better,

here are some pics to help out

(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag279/454levy/IMG_0158_zps0muo6qyz.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/454levy/media/IMG_0158_zps0muo6qyz.jpg.html)
NOTE: your return appears to go over the valve cover, between intake covers, this is just the way the '97 was routed

(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag279/454levy/IMG_0157_zpspr9gyhx2.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/454levy/media/IMG_0157_zpspr9gyhx2.jpg.html)
NOTE: yours is slightly different, mine is the stock 97, yours looks like the earlier style, your injector return to tank is right beside the one that goes to the pump. Also you appear to be missing the water drain petcock, any 1/4 inch petcock would work, that line is always open on the 6.5 FFM so you need some way to stop the flow.

(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag279/454levy/IMG_0156_zpstw2xidfx.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/454levy/media/IMG_0156_zpstw2xidfx.jpg.html)
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 20, 2016, 04:55:59 PM
say how did they do downpipe from turbo? did they route it outside the frame then loop it back under and out the back?
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 05:15:02 PM
It's inside the frame and it's a tight squeeze, I got all the fuel stuff done today, picked up a plug for the t stat housing and some new heater hose. Tomorrow I'll get it running and tackle the down pipe and the cross over


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 05:15:46 PM
And thanks for all of those pictures, I'm going to pull the intake off at some point to powder coat it so I will probably put the filter housing in at the same time!


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 05:19:51 PM
I will most likely have to cut clock and weld the dp back together to get it where I need it


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: roundhouse on February 20, 2016, 08:32:16 PM
Looks like they were running French fry oil.
You wouldn't need a heated hose for bio diesel


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 20, 2016, 11:18:25 PM
That makes more sense I guess, I never bothered to educate myself on the alternative fuels other than propane


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 21, 2016, 08:01:17 AM
Looks like they were running French fry oil.
You wouldn't need a heated hose for bio diesel


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Actually if they were using engine and gear oil, a heater would be needed to thin it down as well, and depending on location a heater would be needed fir bio in colder weather

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 08:18:47 AM
All I know is it almost smelled like old tarnished gasoline but thicker in consistency, was some nasty stuff!


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 12:38:55 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/37ab9c9f67db289bd2222a885ca45983.jpg) still needs a really good scrubbing to see what all is really leaking but it's getting better


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Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 01:36:33 PM
The dang thing is still running like crap after changing everything, fresh fuel in a brand new tank, new filter, new fuel pump, several new pieces or rubber line, again the only tank plumbed up now is the passenger side one, I wonder if this filter housing is the cause of all my headaches?

I did just fill it up down the road at a TA truck stop and poured in a can of sea foam before hand so it's a completely full tank.


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 21, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
first off, you need to plumb the CDR/PCV valve to the intake ahead of turbo, this creates the vacuum to work it, venting it like you have it now does nothing, and will actually remain closed if it is still working(which means excessive crankcase pressure and possible blowing of seals.)

now what are the exact symptoms of the engine, take your time spell it out, be descriptive, and we should arrive at a solution much quicker.

my first thought is an air leak-which if what you say you still have one, it is completely probable that is the cause of 90% of the symptoms.

Next, I hate cobbled Bio systems, cause that means most people just through crap into the system and that clogs up everything, so running a mix of diesel and power-service from a 1 gallon jug, or even try Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge(big one for VW and Mercedes Diesel) will help clean the system very fast.
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 04:35:57 PM
The CDR is bad and is basically just venting to the atmosphere at the moment, I will get a new one shortly. There was a good amount of oil on the intake pre turbo side because of the CDR, turbo is good, spins smooth no play and doesn't spin to freely either, just right. Anyhow the light for water in fuel comes on and stays on for a while when driving. The truck will stutter and rev hang like a two stroke with an air leak does. However it does not rev smoothly nor go to WOT when this is happening. Sometimes it will idle other times it stumbles and dies, I'm sure if I go back and start it in a day or two after it settles it will probably run good until I make a few turns and slosh things around.


The other problem I think I might have involves fuel supply, my new pump and old pump did the same thing, when cracking the drain open on the model 80 filter housing the fuel does not run steady and some times I even hear air gurgling up in the line, so I thought maybe my pump was faulty with intermittent issues and also the fuel line may have been bad, so that's when I decided to remove all of that old bio setup.

I'll try and upload a video to YouTube and post the link


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 04:38:03 PM
https://vimeo.com/156192602 (https://vimeo.com/156192602)

https://vimeo.com/156192683 (https://vimeo.com/156192683)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 04:41:40 PM
At the end of the second one I'm holding the throttle at about half and it died


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 21, 2016, 05:08:14 PM
Filter sock on the fuel pickup clogged? Or it is a gas sock, in which case it won't pick up diesel right. WIF shows low pressure from water, also effective at picking out air pockets.

Next, are you absolutely sure the lift pump is working?

Everything sort of points to air in the system, so we need to figure out where it is entering.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 05:16:37 PM
It was spotless when I removed the tank and it was a mesh material like a brass color. Fuel pump I can hear making pressure when it gets quieter, loud when there is no pressure.


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 05:17:18 PM
Also the pump I replaced it with matches the specs of the proper electric lift pump


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 21, 2016, 06:49:07 PM
Sounds like wrong sock, you can try removing it.

The pump issue sounds like it is running dry. Remove gas cap(or loosen) and try running it.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 21, 2016, 06:50:18 PM
It has always been a diesel though, unless the sender has been changed, it was originally a 6.2


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 21, 2016, 08:40:28 PM
Sorry, your probably right, the later 6.5s got a nylon sock

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 22, 2016, 12:32:52 PM
first off, you need to plumb the CDR/PCV valve to the intake ahead of turbo, this creates the vacuum to work it, venting it like you have it now does nothing, and will actually remain closed if it is still working(which means excessive crankcase pressure and possible blowing of seals.)

now what are the exact symptoms of the engine, take your time spell it out, be descriptive, and we should arrive at a solution much quicker.

my first thought is an air leak-which if what you say you still have one, it is completely probable that is the cause of 90% of the symptoms.

Next, I hate cobbled Bio systems, cause that means most people just through crap into the system and that clogs up everything, so running a mix of diesel and power-service from a 1 gallon jug, or even try Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge(big one for VW and Mercedes Diesel) will help clean the system very fast.

You can run straight bio in the summer and 25% in the winter.  It gels faster and easier than #2 diesel below 30F but it shouldn't need a heater just to run.  Anti-gel additives like Power Systems work just as well on bio as they do on #2.
The Micky Mouse cobbling that goes on with most WVO systems is truly awful.  Then they sell em to the unsuspecting when they stop working.

Stoppering up the leaks should start with replacing the Stanadyne 80 box filter on the firewall with something that doesn't leak.  Putting the Stanadyne fuel manager the PO cobbled above the rear axle back at the rear of the engine is a good start.  You can buy a whole Stanadyne filter manager for under $130 if they damaged that one.  Be sure to replace the screen. Howto here--->http://leroydiesel.com/products/stanadyne-fuel-filter-manager-screen/
 
The fuel injectors really take a beating when you run straight waste oil (either veggie or lube oils).  The pre-chambers coke up with carbon and polymerized unburnt waste oil too.   I'd pull the injectors to get a look at the pre-chambers and the glow plugs.   
Get a shop to clean, spray, and pop test the injectors, or do it yourself, to see how much crud has affected the spray pattern.  If you DIY with one of the many hydraulic jack type pop testers use it outdoors or under a spark free vent hood, do not breathe the fuel vapor, and KEEP YOUR SKIN AND EYES AWAY FROM THE SPRAYING FUEL (I use a 2 quart Mason jar) you will loose anything that gets sprayed.  The injector fuel spray is under enough pressure (1,850-2,200 psi) that it will inject fuel directly through your skin and into the bone.  You'll have to have to have parts amputated.  If you think I'm trying to scare you you are right.  Be careful. Fingers hands etc are not replaceable parts.  You'll miss em if they're gone.

If the pre-chambers are coked up you'll have to pull the heads and get it cleaned out.  Polymerized coked waste oil is about like someone took liquid coal and poured it into the insert and chamber in the cylinder head and poured on a thick layer of glass for good measure.  I've seen the injector heat shields literally glued into the cylinder head with polymerized waste oil. 
Be sure to use NEW injector heat shields and install them with the correct side facing up.
The 6.2 & 6.5L injectors are the same family of Bosch injectors as the 1970's & 1980's Mercedes and VW diesels used.  New Bosch nozzles will not last.  Mercedessource is a Monark nozzle dealer.  They will have pop shims and quality German made Monark nozzles.  Bosch nozzles are made in India now.  Just say no to the crudely made Chinese nozzles you see on evilbay.  Here's some discussion on re-building 6.xL injectors. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/473725-6-5l-turbo-injector-nozzel-replacement-where-buy-shims-heat-sheilds.html (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/473725-6-5l-turbo-injector-nozzel-replacement-where-buy-shims-heat-sheilds.html)

**EDIT**  Add  Bosio nozzles to the list.  They're supposedly still made in Europe too.  Italy...  but that could change.  Bosch nozzles are definitely made in India now and the quality was slipping when they were still being manufactured in Deutschland.   The Bosio nozzles don't have the extra pilot holes so they should provide better economy than the Mercedes type Monark nozzles.  If they are still made in Italy.  If production has moved to Asia or India go with the Monark nozzles.

If you want return hose that lasts get the GERMAN 3.5mm braided cover >NBR< hose.  Any Mercedes or VW dealer will have it in bulk.  The VW and Mercedes return terminators work just fine on your GM 6.xL injectors too.  You do not need 16 spring loaded hose clamps when you use the braided stuff and real >NBR< hose doesn't melt from diesel or bio-diesel fuels. 
Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 22, 2016, 06:59:49 PM
Thanks for that info about what could be lying inside. I'm a diesel mechanic at a tractor shop, mostly I work on industrial equipment, I've just never messed with these gm diesels until now. I did work on semis for about 5 years and I'm familiar with the big straight 6's.  I have a injector tester at work, I do want to check them after I'm sure my fuel supply to the ip is as good as it can be!. I pulled that filter housing from above the axle this evening, plan to take it to work tomorrow to clean it in the parts washer, may send it to a friend with a hot tank


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 22, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/34056eddc6d31183c7484b48356e2705.jpg)
I'm waiting on my parts to get here tomorrow for the other filter and mount, above is a picture of both of my trucks / headaches haha


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 23, 2016, 12:14:53 AM
Replace the oiled gauze air filter with the AC Delco paper A1300C air filter that GM used in the K47 air boxes.  Ideally you want to find a GM K47 airbox and ducting to the turbo from a 1997-2000 GMT400 CK 2500 & 3500. 
The CDR will plumb in correctly.
You'll get noticeably better boost.
You'll get a filter condition indicator.  Not that important but kinda cool.
You'll get a lot less dirt in the turbo and engine than the "High Performance" filter.
 
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 23, 2016, 08:45:29 AM
I am searching for one of those air boxes on a budget, but worse case I plan on using a break and making my own air box mounted on the passenger fender


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 23, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
I am searching for one of those air boxes on a budget, but worse case I plan on using a break and making my own air box mounted on the passenger fender


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If you have the flexible duct that ran from the elbow to the turbo you can Fab an airbox to fit the Delco A1300C filter.

Several other engines used this same box and filter with different ducting.  The 6.5L specific piece is the elbow.  Some guys on the dieselpage forums made a replacement for the discontinued K47 diesel airbox  elbow with an ABS black pipe elbow.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 23, 2016, 10:37:32 PM
The filter housing is in pretty sorry shape, black goo inside the thing and most of the ports were plugged up, I had it in the parts washer all day and put it in carb dip before I left work this evening, are there replacement parts for the housing?


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 24, 2016, 02:59:45 PM
The filter housing is in pretty sorry shape, black goo inside the thing and most of the ports were plugged up, I had it in the parts washer all day and put it in carb dip before I left work this evening, are there replacement parts for the housing?


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The whole housing with heater, sensor, and screen is a little less than $130

http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=32281.msg272851#msg272851

WIF sensor, Screen, and heater are available.
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Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 24, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
https://vimeo.com/156643579 (https://vimeo.com/156643579)

I mounted this aux  fuel water separator temporarily on the inner fender. Once the 6.5 housing is in I will put the aux one in place of my old 80 unit.

I cleaned up the 6.5 housing today at work and head blasted it and it turned out really nice except in between the two center tubes where the screen goes, there's some gunk down in there that I couldn't get out with the carb dip, parts washer, brake clean, or compressed air.... I soaked the housing again over night and will check it tomorrow. If I can't get that part clean then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy another. Probably won't be able to drive the truck around until this weekend, but I'm hoping this will cure my water issues. I'm draining the filters each time I run it until I'm sure I've had no more issues.


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 24, 2016, 10:38:02 PM
3" or 3.5" ABS street elbow to fit the Delco 1300 filter.  Read this thread.  http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/596202-how-big-hole-k47-filter-5.html (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/596202-how-big-hole-k47-filter-5.html)

PVC elbow battery post rubs.  http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/363978-just-received-my-k47-did-i-get-what-i-paid.html (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/363978-just-received-my-k47-did-i-get-what-i-paid.html)

No reason to get a factory airbox.  Fab one to fit the filter and go.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 24, 2016, 10:40:45 PM
https://vimeo.com/156643579 (https://vimeo.com/156643579)

I mounted this aux  fuel water separator temporarily on the inner fender. Once the 6.5 housing is in I will put the aux one in place of my old 80 unit.

I cleaned up the 6.5 housing today at work and head blasted it and it turned out really nice except in between the two center tubes where the screen goes, there's some gunk down in there that I couldn't get out with the carb dip, parts washer, brake clean, or compressed air.... I soaked the housing again over night and will check it tomorrow. If I can't get that part clean then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy another. Probably won't be able to drive the truck around until this weekend, but I'm hoping this will cure my water issues. I'm draining the filters each time I run it until I'm sure I've had no more issues.


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Nothing wrong with spin on filters as a primary.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on February 25, 2016, 12:09:19 PM
Stanadyne Filter Manager GM Top-loading 1997-2002 6.5L Diesel 
Page 11 --->  http://www.stanadyne.com/docs/schd/99920%20FM%20Price%20list.pdf

Fuel Filter Manager Parts:

    Complete Fuel Filter Manager Assembly - GM AC Delco: 10226035 or Stanadyne: 29367
    Fuel Heater - GM: 12511964 or Stanadyne: 31341P
    Fuel Filter Heater O Ring - GM: 12511962
    Water In Fuel Sensor - GM: 12375515
    Water In Fuel O Ring - GM: 12511959
    Fuel Filter Retaining Nut - GM: 12511963
    Fuel Filter Manager Screen - Stanadyne: 29244  "last ditch screen" no GM part #
         If you need both heater and sensor just buy the complete assembly.

Fuel Filter Element:

    GM: 88915464
    ACDELCO: TP1256F
    Stanadyne: 31712
    Purolator: F54719
    Fleetguard: FS1295
    AFE: 44-FF001
    Baldwin: BF 1201
    Car Quest: 86376
    WIX: 33976
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 27, 2016, 09:47:17 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160227/aa3e9be1a028d1e7e80f0a152b55cffd.jpg)bead blasted and all cleaned up, waiting on my screens to come in, pretty sure I need another WIF sensor :/


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 28, 2016, 09:44:41 AM
Any tips on making a boost buddy or whatever they're called, I have a gm-3. Turbo with the horizontal waste hate.


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 28, 2016, 12:02:05 PM
if your handy with a welder, cut open the vacuum canister(leave the bottom portion that connects to the support/turbo),  weld a 1/4" all-thread rod, on, and go to a hardware store get a couple springs (about 3 inches in length) of varying compression strengths) then use a lock nut and some finishing washers(the concave/convex washers that tend to go on decorative furniture.) test it out, ideally about 10psi is perfect for full throttle, 2-4 psi for cruise, anything more tends to need studs, and better headgaskets

the other option is pretty much the same as above, but you need to figure out a mount and a way to attach it to the wastegate lever

here is mine(GM-8 turbo, vertical wastegate) I haven't had a chance to completely test it, but pretty much followed other peoples ideas, and the general concept of a mechanical wastegate

(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag279/454levy/IMG_0142_zpsawpbkurm.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/454levy/media/IMG_0142_zpsawpbkurm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 28, 2016, 12:15:39 PM
Cool looks simple enough, and I do almost all of the welding jobs at my work


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 28, 2016, 12:28:12 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/02f54dbf2b6908ee33ca7c6d974df632.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/df2203c0f8b6f60cdba22ab932246b4d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/eb9b4598c7b767721dffd20f260545d1.jpg)

I made these roll around carts at work for the managers wife and then made the headache rack out of scrap crate steel for my daily driver


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 28, 2016, 08:02:20 PM
Ok so the dang truck left me stranded again, but thankfully near the farm so I walked back and towed it back with my other truck. I'm starting to wonder if the water in fuel is just a hoax and when it's starving for fuel maybe the light comes on? Tell me your thoughts! Because when I cracked the bleeder/ water drain on the 80 housing, nothing came out but a few drops. When I first turned the fuel pump on before driving it, the bleeder was cracked and had a nice steady stream. I'm really wondering about my pickup sock or possibly the fuel pump is cavitating and sucking air somewhere. Really didn't want to drop the fuel tank again.


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on February 28, 2016, 08:37:05 PM
Yeah, the light comes on with low pressure. So definitely a pressure issue. Air leaks are very hard to find, and the biggest problem with these engines.

Have you tried running without the fuel cap?


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on February 28, 2016, 08:46:19 PM
Yeah that was my first try was removing the fuel cap, though there may have been a vacuum in the tank


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 03, 2016, 05:01:44 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/55d71ea107a3f7412da5c99824aa1870.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/7edbdbe7cdde57612d4f17039618efc4.jpg)

Got the filter housing all rebuilt minus the WIF sensor. Also got everything for my intake in. Mocked that up tonight. No pics of that yet. I also bought some clear hose to look for my air leak in the fuel system. I don't recall if there are any hoses on the sending unit inside the tank or not?


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 04, 2016, 07:25:42 AM
there shouldn't be any hose in the tank, just a metal pickup tube, the return should be just be a short section of metal tube as well.

IMO the WIF isn't completely necessary, but it is nice to have...last time I checked it was like $100 for just the sensor :o

did you do a new fuel sender unit when you did the tank?
Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 04, 2016, 07:32:56 AM
Yeah 100 for the sensor and I could get a complete filter manager for about $120....

No I reused the old sending unit, although I am thinking of replacing it. It just stinks because I've got a full tank of fresh fuel. If I new the condition of my driver side tank I would just transfer it to the other side with my transfer pump. I'm making up a bracket for the other filter today, I want to run it up on the firewall like the 80 was


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Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 04, 2016, 01:56:15 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160304/b672ff6833e6e203488faf25e20d6b21.jpg)
I got my mount fabbed and painted, kind crude but will bolt right up and easily accessible...


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 04, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
Nice. Reason I asked if sender was old, was either it is a little rusty, with a pin hole in pickup, or it may even be cracked from repeated removal and attachment of fuel lines.

Sometimes it is inside the tank, right under the plate, which makes it even harder to find, because you can't see it


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 04, 2016, 02:27:53 PM
Oh ok I'll check it out if I see the leak coming from before the fuel pump


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on March 07, 2016, 04:46:48 PM
Yeah 100 for the sensor and I could get a complete filter manager for about $120....

No I reused the old sending unit, although I am thinking of replacing it. It just stinks because I've got a full tank of fresh fuel. If I new the condition of my driver side tank I would just transfer it to the other side with my transfer pump. I'm making up a bracket for the other filter today, I want to run it up on the firewall like the 80 was


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Your cleanup looks great.
If that sensor goes out just get a whole unit.  Bet the heater tests bad.
Heater and wif really do cost more than a whole unit.

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Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 07, 2016, 05:02:13 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/e65f3365ec78cef6e7a4836f9cf65835.jpg)im starting to second guess this location.....
Awfully close to the turbo. I was hoping it would be farther away

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 07, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
looks like you mounted it further back, could you rotate it(maybe bend bracket) so the outlet and drain face the center more, this should give better access to the inlet as well. As in use the front hole on one side of the bracket, rear hole on the other.

is the clear line the inlet on the current filter?
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 07, 2016, 06:05:31 PM
The problem with turning  it is that the inlet on the rear would hit the heater box and the filter isn't plumbed up at all right now, just the spin on. I'm thinking I will just put it at the rear of the intake like normal. The hoses just look like no fun to mess with down there, I'm dreading changing the supply hose to the ip


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 07, 2016, 06:43:37 PM
it's actually not that bad, if you have one of the ring/ circle pliers it makes it even easier(the needle nose pliers that the tip is shaped in a circle)
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 07, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
I don't have those but a kid I work with does, the hose clamp is the part I'm worried about


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on March 07, 2016, 08:14:11 PM
The problem with turning  it is that the inlet on the rear would hit the heater box and the filter isn't plumbed up at all right now, just the spin on. I'm thinking I will just put it at the rear of the intake like normal. The hoses just look like no fun to mess with down there, I'm dreading changing the supply hose to the ip


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Why not mount it where GM put em... behind the upper intake.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 08, 2016, 07:14:59 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/2ffd727b3560ade91f7c94245a5c56ae.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/27b9c764ccaf2414109c793df1e47499.jpg) so I mounted the housing in its proper home, what a pain!!!! And I cannot get this air bubble out even feeding it to the housing and venting the top it just doesn't leave the line


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 08, 2016, 08:06:55 PM
If the bubble doesn't move, and there are no bubbles moving to or leaving, it doesn't matter. It's much like the airspace seen in the old fuel pumps with the glass bowls( heck even the clear plastic filters will have a bubble)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 08, 2016, 08:13:37 PM
I want to put a fuel pressure gauge on it then I will test drive it again and monitor what's going on


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 08, 2016, 08:24:18 PM

I want to put a fuel pressure gauge on it then I will test drive it again and monitor what's going on


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Good idea, should be at 7-9 psi cruise, dropping to no lower then 3 psi hard throttle, or dropping no more then 6-7 psi-if you have more pressure when cruising. Keep in mind you don't really want more then 14psi, because then injection pump internal pressure is too much and can cause certain issues(surging, over fueling, over/under advancing fuel delivery)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 09, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Thought I had it fixed, but nope, died when I parked it luckily. Sucked my fuel line almost completely shut....(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160310/0800b87a6486743206cbb8773004877a.jpg)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 09, 2016, 06:47:42 PM
Is that the return? Have you replaced any of the returns on the injectors?


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 09, 2016, 06:54:07 PM
That is the supply from my spin on filter to the filter manager


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 09, 2016, 06:54:46 PM
Ran better than it ever has until I backed it into the parking spot in the barn


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 09, 2016, 07:01:58 PM
Curious, injection pump is sucking more then the fuel pump can, wonder if the fuel pump can't push through the filter, to much pressure and volume drop


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 09, 2016, 07:09:43 PM
The spin on is only a 20 micron where the factory one is about 14, I wouldn't think that would be the case


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 09, 2016, 07:10:45 PM
I spec'd the pump to what the 6.5 calls for. 9-14 psi max I don't remember the gpm but I think it was in the 30's


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 10, 2016, 07:22:52 AM
how do you have the fuel pump wired in?
Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 10, 2016, 08:55:08 AM
The previous owner wired it to a toggle switch on the dash, wiring was crude, but when I replaced the pump I repaired/replaced anything questionable that I found, all heat shrink connectors. When the truck dies I still here the pump running and it's loud like its not moving any fuel


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 10, 2016, 08:57:45 AM
A friend of mine works at G&R diesel performance, they make all sorts of performance parts for newer trucks but they also have a universal sump setup that my buddy said he'd give me a heck of a deal on so I'm really thinking about that to eliminate any future draw straw issues


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on March 16, 2016, 11:13:29 AM
A friend of mine works at G&R diesel performance, they make all sorts of performance parts for newer trucks but they also have a universal sump setup that my buddy said he'd give me a heck of a deal on so I'm really thinking about that to eliminate any future draw straw issues


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The water and salt in the used fry oil probably didn't do any favors to your draw straw.

Let us know how that sump works.  I'd be interested to see the install.  Some of the fuel injection swap folks might too.
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 16, 2016, 11:42:52 AM
I certainly will keep you updated, although I don't think the ever ran the bio stuff in the regular tanks, just the rear center tank I think. I should be getting my sump back from a machine shop tonight. I had to modify it a little bit


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 20, 2016, 03:51:26 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/d92977ba02ed060ba0531e696146d792.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/e2183ffac9df6c3abb349ab82411457d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/9aaad5b2f760ada81c611418dad44309.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160320/e8bfe9019f63067089b6d4a35992001a.jpg)

I finally got my sump back from machining, I had a recess grooved in the backing plate so it would for sure seal against my thin metal tank vs. a thick plastic tank. I also advised my buddy who works where they make the sumps to include the recess in the backing plate on all the new ones. I'm waiting to hear what he says..., I may get to still install it tonight. Draining the tank is a slow going process....


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 21, 2016, 05:51:56 PM
So I tried installing last night and it was a no go because the bit they supply you with is for plastic and wood, but I thought I'd try any way... So needless to say, today at lunch I went to the Home Depot and bought a hole saw blade that was an 1/8" larger than I needed but they didn't have a 2-1/4" like I needed, anyhow the hole saw worked perfect and I had it installed in about 5 min after cutting the hole, it doesn't seem to leak at all any I was able to position it pointing right at my fuel pump, quick easy, clean install once I realized what I needed to have.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/fd048e3139bd27bda660816321472804.jpg)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 22, 2016, 10:01:54 PM
Truck seems to be running fine now and not die on me but I haven't made a real maiden voyage yet to test it truly, however at WOT I'm only getting about 4-5 psi boost, and almost a vacuum at cruising around, turbo spins nice, I'm wondering if the waste gate spring is shot, I plan on making a boost buddy next anyhow... Any thoughts?


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 23, 2016, 05:39:44 AM
Exhaust leak can cause low boost(crossover), otherwise weak spring will do the same


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 23, 2016, 08:48:26 AM
Well my cross over does have some leaks in it, I just want to be sure it's running right before I put my flowmaster down pipe kit on it, comes with a crossover also


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 24, 2016, 06:27:00 PM
https://vimeo.com/160307591 (https://vimeo.com/160307591)

Drove around the lot a bunch from idle to WOT and it seemed ok other than the lack of boost, so I decided to take a road test, only drove about three miles but I romped on it and made some hard turns( use to kill it if I did) and popped the hood when I got back. The supply line was full and free of any air bubbles!!!! I finally have a healthy fuel supply.


Side note: the sump has been on since the weekend and had a full tank, hasn't leaked a drop :)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 26, 2016, 04:56:05 PM
Wow!!!! All I can say is what a difference my exhaust work made, the old crossover was leaking pretty bad and looked like bubble gum welds. The truck runs great compared to what it did before, 14-15 psi at WOT and 3-4 cruisinghttps://vimeo.com/160476715 (https://vimeo.com/160476715)https://vimeo.com/160476789 (https://vimeo.com/160476789)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 26, 2016, 05:19:18 PM
Very nice, amazing what no exhaust leaks can do for boost, hope most of the troubles are in the past now


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 26, 2016, 05:22:04 PM
Yes they seem to be, thanks for the help to everyone who posted, I'll probably keep updating this post with my other fixes for all of its engine/ performance related issues. I got carried away on a test drive  with out my Down pipe I place and melted a shock boot lol


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 26, 2016, 05:35:42 PM
These will give you a good laugh at the welds I found! (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/a2f95992be491a005b085f3950ddb434.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/251141e1b777ce0b9efa6abcff794ba8.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/3f56dfb29db27c24cd0ffcae7731942d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/3fb094ebe66259df31c9b5c474198a1e.jpg) the last one is the flange of my down pipe.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/147f69b6ba6a004611c7cdbbcddaf494.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/454ca5c7f9ac7c9d58c7d1fdecf98ecc.jpg)

Down pipe will need modifying to make it work, flange needs to come off and then I need to possibly bend it some more and even shorten up the elbow to the turbo flange


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 28, 2016, 11:57:56 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/1d7e520318251b4e9474b91d5754a484.jpg)
Hacked the flange off and then the turbo flange, shortened the pipe on the turbo side and tacked the flange back on, I'll test fit tonight to see if it will fit inside the frame rail like the old one did...


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: 1967KaiserM715 on March 28, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Looking good, be sure to get some good pics of that down pipe install, I am going to have to do the same thing for my truck.

Does your truck have a body lift? Doesn't look like it, bumper seems to fit front  fine.


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Title: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 28, 2016, 07:34:32 PM
No body lift, I did break out the ball peen hammer for some needed clearance issues, I'll take pics tomorrow

The biggest clearance issue was the shock mount, I cut the elbow down by the turbo flange to make the bend tighter but it still hit the shock mount so I had to bash the pipe in there a decent bit until I was confident it wouldn't interfere even if the engine moved. Then the next spot was the manifold flange where the crossover bolts and the  frame rail, now that I clearanced all of that I can just clamp some elbows to get it back to my 5" up to the stack that was on the truck, a one inch body lift would have been beneficial for the manifold flange and frame rail clearance, but for the shock mount I saw no other option with the pipe I had to work with.

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 30, 2016, 04:41:33 PM
Drove it to work today with luckily with no issues at all and a co worker pulled his escort out of the barn, cracked me up that he parked next to me, made the truck look huge (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/2c248a1bdbca2a4cc3d8f5db1da17b56.jpg)


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on March 30, 2016, 04:54:21 PM
That wouldn't happen to be one of the Escorts with the Mazda Diesel? 
A buddy had one of those.  The fuel mileage was better than my 78 VW Rabbit that routinely got 54mpg on the highway and 50 around town.  Abysmal quality interior on both cars but cheap to run.
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: Irish_Alley on March 30, 2016, 05:12:38 PM
i want a rabbit soooooo bad
Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 30, 2016, 05:25:18 PM
No it's a gas job. He bought it new and even the tires are still original, I think it only has like 30k miles, he has many nice vehicles


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: hatzie on March 30, 2016, 07:20:29 PM
i want a rabbit soooooo bad
You and several thousand others.  I'd rather have a 1979 Scirocco GLX RHD

No it's a gas job. He bought it new and even the tires are still original, I think it only has like 30k miles, he has many nice vehicles


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Those tires are dangerous now...

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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on March 30, 2016, 08:13:50 PM
And yes he's hoping it sells before he has to put tires on it, I believe they are bias plys


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Title: Re: So many lines! What do they all do?
Post by: fmxr47 on April 13, 2016, 10:12:11 PM
A couple weeks have gone by and I've drove the truck several times, everything seems to be great as far as running is concerned


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