73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 4 Wheel Drives => Topic started by: 1979C20 on June 22, 2011, 02:33:22 AM
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I poated about this before, but i didnt really get what i was after and i didnt have as great of an understanding of our trucks. But, im looking tobconvert my truck to 4 wheel drive, because i dont have a couple thousand dollars to by a 4x4, but i could buy parts a hundred or so dollars at a time and then convert it when i have time. The first thing on my list would be putting the front axle on. An! Then i can deal with the transfer case and tranny later. So, i have a few questions. What parts would i need for the front end. Can i weld/bolt spring perces to the frame while my 2wd parts are still in place?
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buy a donor truck for some change. your measurements would have to be perfect for the alignment to be true aint work it imo especially with wanting to keep the 2wd system up and running. im sure you can find a old beat up 4x4 around take the body off and redo the frames lines fuel/brake and once your done that take a weekend to move your motor and body to the 4x4 frame. then scrap the 4x4 body also dont forget to use the 4x4 cab's center hump.
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I can find any decent price junkers. I have measurements of the hangers and what not, and i already have a high hump with my sm465. Im just looking to do the front spring hangers, moved foreward a few inches to use rear springs up front and then when i have all of the parts slap the front axle on. What parts would i need though? Spring hangers, shackle hangers, axle, what steering parts?
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if i can remember right even the steering box you need. so its pretty much all the steering parts
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http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/pts/2454308015.html
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I saw that red on in a seprate post, but my parent wont let me drag that hung of junk home. I was planning on calling and offering him 100 for the hole front end. Stwering, spring hangers, crossmember. Thats why i wanted to know which parts id need.
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You will also need the front spring hangers for the rear springs. The core support mounts are different on a 4x4 as well. The front spring hangers are attached to them. As far as leaving the old front suspension parts you would be better off installing the front axle and running it with out the driveshaft etc.
I would find a 4x4 frame and swap your motor, and body onto it. Allot less work!
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less work, less time and cheaper
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I poated about this before, but i didnt really get what i was after and i didnt have as great of an understanding of our trucks. But, im looking tobconvert my truck to 4 wheel drive, because i dont have a couple thousand dollars to by a 4x4, but i could buy parts a hundred or so dollars at a time and then convert it when i have time. The first thing on my list would be putting the front axle on. An! Then i can deal with the transfer case and tranny later. So, i have a few questions. What parts would i need for the front end. Can i weld/bolt spring perces to the frame while my 2wd parts are still in place?
my friends dad did this with a dodge. Scavenged all needed parts from his ram jaeger, and made a 2wd VRAM a 4wd. Did not do a frame swap.
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At this point, doing a frame swap, body swap, motor swap, etc will be out of the question. I can swap the front drive train in a weekend(if i start on Friday morning or so). So, if i were to fab some front hangers out of 1/4 flat, got the shackle hanger off a parts truck and install those in place while the 2wd parts are still on it. jack the wheels off the ground, jack stands under the frame, cherry picker on the engine, unbolt sway bar, disconnect steering, unhook brake lines, unbolt crossmember, roll front drive train out, take tires off, replace engine mounts while I'm there, bolt 4x4 crossmember in, put tires on new axle, roll front axle in, bolt leafs to hangers and shackles, brake lines, replace steering box with 4x4, done. But, what I don't know is, what steering parts need changed? Just the box? Will the brake lines work on the 4x4 calipers? Could I use my 2wd 3/4 heavy duty calipers and pads on the 4x4 rotor? Am I missing anything? will the core support work since I'm fabbing my own spring hanger to use 52 or 56 inch rears up front. I'm not worried about replacing the rear spring front hangers right now, I know theyre taller. I'm just looking to put the front axle on it for now. I am planning on measuring my buddies k10 for the spring hanger locations. I'm going to go off of position of the bolts from the top to the bottom of the frame and then from say the body mount to the bolts. And I'll mark it all on a piece of paper with the frame sketched on it for reference.
I'm going to be slowly buying all of the parts. So I'll make a list now.
Front axle: 10 bolt 8 lug. Will remove gears if not 4.10 or 4.11.
4x4 steering box: And all other steering parts.
Front spring hanger: Fabbed out of 1/4 flat, something like below.
Front spring shackle hanger: Preferably off of a parts truck.
Leaf springs: Hopefully 4 inch REAR lift springs to net me ~8in of lift. Stock rear springs are worst case scenario for ~3-4in.
Brakes: Will know as soon as some questions are answered.
Shocks: Going to run without shocks until I can get a good deal on them or have money for them(waiting for flaming)
Rest of the truck!
Leaf springs: Preferably all spring lift springs to match the front lift.
Shocks: Run with out, same as front.
Axle: 14 bolt FF with 4.11 and govloc. May replace govloc.(BOOOOM)
Tranny: SM465, may convert mine to 4x4, may replace mine with a 4x4.
Tcase: NP205 split stick.
Engine: Mild 350, may build a 383 or a 396 stroker in the future. 396's are more rare.
Front bumper: 4in steel tube with grill guard, custom.
Rear bumper: Stock step bumper, may "EXO(external)skeleton it(the bumper, not the truck) with 3/4 or 1in tube.
Spring hangers.
(http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/110402/080r5/6680l1_19.jpeg)
I plan on turning this post into a build page and also a how to. So Any help on the topics I asked about will be much appreciated. This will be a long brewed process as money is tight, but It will get done and hopefully soon. I'm in the hole 500 as it is for my heads and to get my license reinstated. I missed a court date for a flash ticket and it was suspended. I was out of town on family business. :/
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You will need all the steering parts, as 2x and 4x don't share any front end steering linkage.
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Thanks blazin, thats what I needed to know.
Remaining questions
Will the 2wd core support work, as I'm using custom spring hangers?
Will 2wd calipers work on 4x4 rotors?
Will 2wd Brake lines work on 4x4 calipers?
What are the 4x4 steering components needed?
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Will this fit our year trucks? If so I'll probably go pick it up today.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2449760479.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2449760479.html)
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Not saying it can’t be done just it would be easier if using a donor frame but if you want to do it that way. We are here to help as much as we can. My bud is working on his own welding company has a 4x2 3+3, he had a 4x4 1ton so he’s doing the same thing turning the 4x2 to 4x4. But if he had a frame i know he would use it lol. And i think someone did a write up about this before ill see if i can find it. The calibers im sure have to be changed. Not sure what rims are on the heave half but I think they are 15 and ¾ will be 16 so it’s a different radius
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Would an 8 lug dana44 from a 1970 suburban fit our year truck? That would be perfect for me.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2433414040.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2433414040.html)
Irish, Thanks for the help. I have a 3/4 ton with stock 16's
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Personally I have to agree with Irish, if you could get a donor frame you could kind of take the project slow like you wanted too. I would maybe take the donor frame and sand and paint it. Do any kind of servicing of the axles, brakes, hubs, seals with the rolling frame. Then you could switch the box and cab and motor. Personally I would have to tell you to go with a k-30 frame. The Dana 60 is really desirable and the 14 bolt FF would be nice too ( i know you have one but maybe you could sell one of the two). Plus the one ton frame is a lot taller than a half or three quarter ton. If you did however want to just go with a conversion I would still stick with the Dana 60 rather than the 10 bolt or Dana 44.
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lol why was i thinking 1/2 idk. but i think the frames are different on the older chevys so i think they can work with new perches. to tell you the truth i wanted to do this to my 86 c10 but found a k20 for 400
http://www.truckforum.org/forums/4x4-trucks-off-road/3672-converting-a-4x2-to-a-4x4.html
this one might help
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/2-wheel-drive-4x4-conversion-47333.html
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If I owned my own house where I could scatter car parts all over the lawn and store 10 vehicles in the back yard, I wouldnt even think about taking the time to convert it. But, I live with my parents and they dont want an eye sore sitting in front of the house and they dont want to store all of the removed parts. Also, city law states Inoperable Vehicles arent allowed on the property or street. So, frame swap, body swap, engine swap is out of the question. I would love a dana 60 front. Finding one cheap enough is the problem. I'm on a looooow budget. Like, 100 bucks for a complete axle(hopefully with steering, brakes, hubs, sway bar). And then buy the other parts 1 at a time until I have them all. 40 bucks for a steering box, 50 buck for springs, 30 bucks for a crossmember. This is a strict budget. Besides, I have to put $20+ in my gas tank daily to get to and from work and a little driving around. probably 30 or 40 total miles a day. I get like 6-8mpg. So I have daily, say...
$25 gas
$25 misc.
$-1000 debt
Make 40-60 bucks a day.
So I'ts going to take some time. I would love nothing more than to go out and buy myself a blazer or a suburban ad turn it into a mud truck. But Its not gonna happen any time soon.
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i think you can get away with a frame or as us farmers like to call them "wagons" lol wagons arnt vehicles ;D
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I just searched Oreilly auto and a 79 c20 and a 79 k20 both use the same front calipers. So I guess thats one thing I wont need.
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I saw that red on in a seprate post, but my parent wont let me drag that hung of junk home. I was planning on calling and offering him 100 for the hole front end. Stwering, spring hangers, crossmember. Thats why i wanted to know which parts id need.
If you cant drag that home because of your parents, will they allow you to stockpile parts until its time to swap? Seems the same to me. Parts will sit longer...
If you cant afford to buy a 4x4 and are going to spend a little here and there, just use that same amount of time to save the $$ and just buy a 4x4 instead. Ive never seen a reason to convert a frame over. Just buy a 4x4 roller IMO.
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Will this fit our year trucks? If so I'll probably go pick it up today.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2449760479.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/2449760479.html)
No. Even if it would, that's a closed knuckle 1/2 ton axle. Stay away from it unless you have a 60-66 1/2 ton and need an original axle in which case it's a pretty good deal. But it's not what you're after.
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There's a reason people part things out its so they make more money off it. Think about this I went to the junk yard bough a matching set of axles paid 300. And yet one side of the front was frozen up. You don't know what your getting. If you buy a wrong part then that's more money. Now if I'm doing this right you will probably spend 200 in steering parts 300 in axles if you can find them or even 150 for a front that might not match. If you want 4.10s you prob looking at more if you need to swap them. Then you have a transmission to look at prob another 600 then if your lucky it might be from a long bed and you get the shafts probably 100-150 then you can only pray the transmission works
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The way im seeing it....
~$100 for axle from hub to hub.
- $00 calipers
- $00 other brake parts
- $40 steering box
~$30 crossmember from parts truck
~$25 front shackle hangers
~$50 steering parts from parts truck.
~$50 springs for the front
~$50 springs for the rear
~$350
So about 350 bucks and i can buy the parts 1 at a time. If i find an axle without 4.11's, ill pull the carrier or the axle shafts or put manual hubs on it and call it good until i find a decent price for a carrier. And thats all i need for right now. Later down the road.....
~$200 4x4 SM465
~$100 NP 205
~$50 tranny crossmember
~$80 front drive shaft
~$430
So even farther down the road i can make it 4wd for pretty cheap. Itll only cost about $800 and once again, i can buy the parts one at a time when i have the money.
I can either shorten or buy a new rear drive shaft so another $80 or so.
Beastie, i still cant store an inoperable vehicle on the property. And, i can store the few parts on the side of the house where all of the jeep parts are until i can make use of them. So, yes. I can store the parts, not a vehicle.
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http://delaware.craigslist.org/pts/2379186038.html sm465 550
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/pts/2412911736.html axles 500
now not saying this is what your will cost but its what around here
100 for a sm465 is too cheap prob a 2wd or something is wrong with it
then you have to find a axle that same year or about your year of your c20
still talking about the same price 1k-1500
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For what you spend in time and money collecting all of those parts you could rent a trailer, drive to ND, and take your pick of my 4x4 parts trucks, a case of beer each.
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those prices look really low. $100 for a axle, something wrong with it. $100 for a 205, something wrong with it.
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http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/2453556715.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/2453556715.html)
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/2429975872.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/2429975872.html)
200 for th350 and np205http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/pts/2449103080.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/pts/2449103080.html)
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/2440836587.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/2440836587.html)
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200 for th350 and np205
(http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/pts/2449103080.html)
$200 is a killer deal for a turbo 350/205 set up. Just keep in mind thats it's a slip yoke set up, the bolt on yoke is more desirable. Also make sure you get the shifter/crossmember.
As far as a place to work on your truck, are there any self storage units near you that rent by the month. Before I had my shop I used to do a ton of work in a 10' x 30' storage unit.
Not the ideal place but I made it work for me. Just keep it clean and don't attract attention to yourself. It could be worth looking into renting 1 for a month or two.
As far as others telling you to buy a complete truck, they are right if you can find a place to leave it. I just picked up a running and driving 74 K20 for $500. I pulled the 8 lug axles (4.10's), turbo 350/205 set up (bolt on yoke that had new front&rear driveshafts) and a strong 350 4 bolt motor. Still got $460 for the shell/frame at the boneyard. Thats a lot of parts for $40.
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It is a good deal, but i prefer a manual offroad.
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If you feel like you can handle it, then go for it. You seem to have your mind made up so I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. Yes, it would be easier(and probably cheaper) to find a parts truck, but I understand your situation. There's been several times in the past I've wanted to do just what you want and I would like to see how it works out for you. There was an article in one of the Peterson 4wd mags a couple of years ago where they had a shop do this, although I think it was a newer model truck(90 something). There was another article in 4wheel & off road where they did this to a 64-66 model Chevy, but that's probably been almost 10 years ago. I've looked for that article several times and never have found it, it would probably be more suited to your situation. You might also go to a junkyard and just look around and see if you can find a 4x4 and take some good pics of the front end so you would know what it's supposed to look like when you're done. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
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those axle being 3.73 and if you get the sm465 and 205 that would be perfect i got the same thing but with 4.10 wish i had some 3.73 with my 38s cause im at 2k going 50
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Irish, my moms got 3.73's on her 03 avalanche with 35's and its doin a number on her engine.
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I used to always say stick off road, until I got my Blazer, and put a built TH350 in it. I will never have a wheeling rig again with stick.
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a auto i can see but a 465 being its made to haul stuff then speed L is 6.54:1, 1st 3.58:1 2nd 1.7:1 and 3rd is 1:1
wile your moms avalanche 1st is 3.06 2nd 1.63 3rd 1:1 4th .7
so even if i have to switch to L and use it as 1st i would cause it would really help out the top end and mpgs
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Shes actually got a 5 speed auto. 123D and OD. Haha.
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well idk thought they came with a 4l60e or 4l80e till 09 where they put a 6 speed under her lol but its still the 6.54 that will move anything you have under her
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Just talked to my dad and he agreed to help me with welding up some hangers. Does anyone know if I can fab some shackle hangers too?
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Anything is posible, it all depends on skill, and the tools you have.
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110 lincoln, 220 miller, plasma torch, oxyacetylene torch, ill pick up steal from the recycler down the road, tool box full of everything I need. So I can do it. But, as I recently discovered, my license is.suspended until I turn 18 in 3 months. In arizona, if a person under the age of 18 has more than 1 moving violation their license is suspended until their 18. If theyre caught driving with it susoended they impound the vehicle, you go to jail for the night, and your license is suspended for a year. So, im going to try and find a small automatic car for my girlfriend to drive me and her around in and ill be fixing up my truck in the mean time. So, first thing on my list is the fronr axle installed. I hope to have the parts in a month. Then im working on the body. A few dents andcreases here and there, trim line holes, replace a door or both. So, ill post a new topic about the fix up and continue this post for the swap.
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moped
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Maybe I can get a motorcycle license? Haha.
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two seater bicycle rock it out man !!
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na no license if its under 25ccs in most towns, check your town regulations. I would do it but I live 25 miles from work lol
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live the dream..
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HAHAHAHA ;D
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Hahahaha. Maybe ill find a 2 seater go cart with a lawn mower engine on.it.
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Maybe I can get a motorcycle license? Haha.
not if your regular license is suspended...
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I just noticed this thread and figured I would share some info with you.
I did this swap to my 86. I put a 78 2wd frame under it.
I don't want you to take what I say the wrong way but I want you to know how much work it is for it to come out right. I definitely don't want to discourage you from making your truck the way you want and I will help in anyway I can.
At this point, doing a frame swap, body swap, motor swap, etc will be out of the question.
This is less work than a conversion.
I can swap the front drive train in a weekend(if i start on Friday morning or so).
Plan on pulling the front clip, bumper, and engine for this. You will have a lot of rivets to cut and a lot of holes to drill. I just counted 44 holes that I had to drill for the front suspension plus 2 large holes for the shackle mount.
But, what I don't know is, what steering parts need changed? Just the box? Will the brake lines work on the 4x4 calipers? Could I use my 2wd 3/4 heavy duty calipers and pads on the 4x4 rotor? Am I missing anything?
I would plan on 4x4 everything.
I'm fabbing my own spring hanger to use 52 or 56 inch rears up front. I'm not worried about replacing the rear spring front hangers right now, I know theyre taller. I'm just looking to put the front axle on it for now.
Will the steering and alignment geometry be correct?
I am planning on measuring my buddies k10 for the spring hanger locations. I'm going to go off of position of the bolts from the top to the bottom of the frame and then from say the body mount to the bolts. And I'll mark it all on a piece of paper with the frame sketched on it for reference.
I had a 79 4wd frame under my 86 from a previous swap so when I did mine I had both frames side by side and found it to hard to get measurements. I made jigs to locate everything. At this point I found that the front wheel arches were slightly different.
Just ask if there is anything I can help you with.
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wow...thats cool you have that down to a science man. im not doing the swap but very useful info for sure. seems pretty involved.
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My $.02
I would use early to mid 70s Ford F150 radius arms from a solid axle 4x4, or aftermarket, or fabricate them, and do a coil spring front axle.
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Have you ever seen that done on a square body blazin? Would you need the ford axle too?
@ big bear. I just happened to be on the garage computer sitting about 15' from my truck when I posted that so it was pretty easy to remember by walking over to it. haha
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since ford are the wrong drop then no. i would think you can use maybe a dodge with coils or just get the coil perches
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since ford are the wrong drop then no. i would think you can use maybe a dodge with coils or just get the coil perches
The 1994+ Rams have a nice 4 link/coil SFA. Wonder if that would, or could be made work?? That would be sweet.
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@ thirsty haha thats cool man.
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If your fabbing your own hangers for the 52/56 in springs, then using your buddies truck for measurements wont work. hangers and shackles are in different spots because the springs are longer. Otherwise your wheel will be too far back in the wheel well.
You will not be able to do all of this in a weekend.
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No, the shackle hanger stays, I just need longer shackles and there are ways to center the axle.
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Yup Fords on the wrong side.
I had always thought if I did it I would fabricate or transplant the lower coil perch. I have seen it done to a 64 C20. They used a Dana 60 front end. and fabricated the mount for the spring on the axle. Used a panhard bar to keep it located.
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Just a quick update, Ive been stretched for cash lately and been spending my money on body work. But, I've found a few random good deals that were gone before I got to them. I'm still searching clist everyday. Some day it will happen!!
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If you can't get a whole truck for the frame and parts and store it, could you get a junky 4x4 then work a deal with a wrecking yard to take the truck there, cut off the front frame (e.g., just behind the front cab mounts) and remove whatever else you need and leave the remainder for them?
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Picked up a 10 bolt 8 lug axle for 50 bucks. Its missing the passenger(short side) inner axle, stub axle, caliper plate, spindle, rotor/hub assy, caliper, and hub. I went down to the local pick a part today to check their price board and here are the prices I found.
17.50 engine crossmember
17.50 axle shaft
17.50 spindle
7.50 caliper
7.50 rotor assy
6.50 hub
14.50 power steering box
14.50 leaf springs X2
7.50 for any bracket(spring hangers)
125 dollars. Im going back today to get axle shaft, spindle, caliper plate, caliper, spindle, rotor/hub, hub.