73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Brakes, Frame, Steering & Suspension => Topic started by: bryanedp9 on October 20, 2017, 08:40:58 AM
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As the title states, I'm curious, especially for the frame and suspension. I know the firewall is different but that's about it. Is the frame taller altogether?
I'm not trying to make a monster truck, but I'm thinking about stretching my frame to get a rollback-esque kinda flatbed that I can put a huge camper on. Like I'd like to be able to carry the weight of the truck on the truck, essentially, rather than the stated 3500lbs I think it is? I've even considered a third axle, but that seems like overkill. The truck is a '89 CC dually with a 454/400 that I'm trying to swap for a 6.5/4500 at the moment, which would be just economical if it weren't for the weight I'm anticipating.
I'll almost certainly need to stretch the truck at least a few feet, and the budget says it's probably gonna be a steel bed. I'd like to try to go light building the camper with wood or aluminum, but it would be easy enough to convert a 20' shipping container or a horse trailer, it seems. The shipping container would be in the neighborhood of 5-6000lbs empty.
The cab itself is kinda dear to me, but since this is either a fantasy or way-off, let's assume I could ditch everything else. Do I really need to, or can I stretch my truck and beef it up a bit and voila? I'm assuming either is possible but a cheap old Topkick could save a lot of headache, as well. Thoughts?
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Okay, maybe this should be moved up a few forums? Or does nobody know? I'm trying to suss out the differences through pictures but I'm still unsure about the frame rails.
EDIT: One thing I did find is that the payload seems to be 4,689 pounds according to some handbook from the heritage center. I'm already in the ballpark but I'd like to be able to load essentially a spare ton in the very back as the intention here is to build a toyhauler of sorts that would fit my Willys or the car, not to mention a motorcycle or two, and so on... I can snag a beat up c60 cheap enough I may have to just do so.
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Mostly curious about, obviously, the brakes, frame, steering & suspension. Especially the frame and suspension. I posted in the crew cabs section but have since realized it's not really applicable there. Although I'm considering giving my crew cab about twice the payload, this is a better place to ask. I'm trying to find documentation on the bigger trucks from this era (mine's an '89) but even the ton trucks seem to be hard to find info on, let alone the bigger ones.
Trying to see (obviously the spring perches are different) if the frame is different. The cab & chassis ones seem to be spaced uniformly for the boxes and whatever may be put on, but I'm not sure if that applies to all or just some of the larger trucks. Also not sure about the size of the rails.
I'm even considering a tandem axle, but trying to keep total length around 25' so it may not be necessary. I can find the big trucks cheap, but I'm still on the fence about if/how I should attempt to stretch my truck, or throw its cab on a bigger one, or do some mixing and matching. For instance, if I let this guy keep the chipper bed, I can have an 80's C60 with a nonrunning 360 in it for $500. But I've heard the C60 and maybe C65 aren't really that much tougher than a 3500. Still yet, a C70 is still cheap to come across, hopefully in the length I want.
Any info or tips would be greatly appreciated.
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im kind of lost on what your desired outcome is. what are your plans for the usage of this truck? if you give your crew cab twice the payload you would need to have it certified,tagged and insured along with having your CLDs (a dually crew cab 4x4 with 454 and th400 is around 11000 gvwr if memory is correct.)
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ok after finding the other topics and merging them i see what you want. i know my curb weight is around 7300 in my 91 v3500 crew srw with the cummins and 4l80e, yours should be a little less. so your payload is about what you posted. that being said 4k of extra weight in the bed i wouldnt trust it. i would get a trailer or build one that could do all you want and still stay legal
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My understanding was if I keep GVWR under 26k I can avoid the CDL. Still if it got that big I'd consider air brakes and a tandem axle, and I think air brakes requires a CDL here. I'll have to brush up on that.
Seems like I could hack a medium duty frame to stretch my own if needed, but that's the kinda stuff I'm still curious about. As mentioned, I may have to just find one at some point.
Saw the strangest thing on the highway a couple weeks ago, a GMT400 with about a 15' wooden flatbed trailer where the bed should be. Looked like the frame was even lowered for it, and had a ramp back. Kinda up my alley.
But for my idea I'm assuming just shy of 10,000lbs payload (heavy camper, vehicle, furnishings, tools, people), plus the 7000 or so the truck ways, for a 17k GVWR or so.
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yes anything 26001 or above you need a CDL. your axles arnt rated for anything above your gvwr so you wont be able to use them afaik along with your brakes. truck length will be next thing to deal with. i dont know if there is any limit to how long your truck can be but since we covered your axles and brakes are no good you have to put new axles/springs and prob frame under your truck.
since your doing that your better off with getting one of those kodiaks like you mentioned
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/1079688-topkick-kodiak-cab-vs-1-2-ton-cab.html
but then you still have to stretch the frame just to fit your jeep. a trailer would be much more feasible
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yes anything 26001 or above you need a CDL. your axles arnt rated for anything above your gvwr so you wont be able to use them afaik along with your brakes. truck length will be next thing to deal with. i dont know if there is any limit to how long your truck can be but since we covered your axles and brakes are no good you have to put new axles/springs and prob frame under your truck.
since your doing that your better off with getting one of those kodiaks like you mentioned
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/1079688-topkick-kodiak-cab-vs-1-2-ton-cab.html
but then you still have to stretch the frame just to fit your jeep. a trailer would be much more feasible
I agree about the feasibility. Still curious about specific frame differences, i.e. could I just take the axles and suspension from a MDT or is the frame that much bigger? Or is it the closer spacing of the rails that helps so much?
The reasoning for trying to avoid a trailer is simply maneuverability in traffic and potentially offroad. Although you could say the same thing for the trailer itself in a hairpin, couldn't ya? However in tight loading and unloading situations, especially backing in, a bed or box is a bit easier to wrangle, especially vs using the ball hitch on a CC truck or something long like that.
Not to mention, I like the idea of actually just making it a rollback with the camper on it. Dismounting a heavy box would be a bit easier with a winch and a tilting bed, maybe some rollers, as opposed to the jacks that usually come with those truck campers. I'd need some heavy duty solution unless I wise up and try to build it out of lighter materials. With the right hydraulic setup I could have a scissor lift or rollback. Also begs for a lighter camper if I wanna try skyjacking it. A shipping container as heavy as the truck with that much leverage in a stiff wind...
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The idea of it seams like it would be very cool. But the audience here I think won't be able to help you with those details. I would try pirate 4x4 you will have a much bigger audience that should be able to help you. But keep us posted on what you find and I know I really would like to see this build
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I'll give that forum a try. Really just tired of registering somewhere every time I get a project idea haha. I appreciate the interest and I'll let ya know how it goes.
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Pirate is a great place to read up on custom modified trucks
The tow rig section would be a good place to start.
THere are some awesome expedition rig builds on pirate in their expedition rig forum
I will warn ya though
Read a lot and use the search box
Pirate is not the place if you have thin skin ,
They will flame you for asking a question that could be found using the search box
What you're describing , you need to just get a truck that's more suited to what you want to use it for
Although a shipping container would be really really too heavy
A normal cargo box with fiberglass sides would be a good place to start
Crew cab 4wd MDTs are not too hard to find
Just pull off the power company cherry picker and add your custom built camper
It would need to be custom built because all store bought campers are total crap
The floor plans are terrible and the materials are entirely too flimsy
I'd start With a U haul box or something like it and build a camper
Also what exactly is going to be the use for this vehicle ?
I assume you'd want 4wd but you didn't mention it
And I'm pretty sure you're exempt from any CDL regs as long as it's registered as a motorhome
Which is pretty easy in most states , you can get a 10 wheel peterbilt tractor registered as a motorhome RV if it has a microwave , fridge and portapotty and wiring for shore power
There's a site called
Expedition portal that had a lot of cool builds(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/9eacbd73ab3b1b0eead9f8595068e0f1.jpg)
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Box truck to RV conversion. Crew Cab f450
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=4267&share_tid=2472929&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epirate4x4%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D2472929&share_type=t
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I'm actually a member over at expedition portal. I've got a little thread mentioning some of this there. Also the Blazer Chalet is awesome. There was one for sale locally awhile back.
I agree that most campers are just too cheaply made for my purposes, but the box truck boxes would need extended for the crew cab on most I've seen. I suppose if they're just some steel, plywood and fiberglass it wouldn't be too hard to extend. I need to get a look inside more of them, but the corner framing seems inadequate for mounting jacks to dismount the camper, especially if loaded with a vehicle. The floor structure itself is another thing to consider for mounting/dismounting and vehicle loading. Still may be a good starting point.
So most of the ideas seem either too flimsy or too heavy.
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You want to haul a vehicle inside the camper and be able to dismount the camper with the vehicle inside ?
Like a jeep or dune buggy or what kinda vehicle we talking about ?
That's gonna require a Heavy truck and lighten you wallet
I'm sure there are some commercial or military trucks that can self load , but the big question is why ?
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Contact this guy on pirate and see if he knows who manufactured the box (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/065870a25bb01a9e02e2ccb53b49f88d.jpg)
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That box is closer to my size, but I like the idea of the box being on a bed and capable of dismounting. Having a vehicle in during this isn't really necessary, and neither is flooring for that rear section. It could just be a roof with some walls kinda framed up and maybe a door of some sort, kinda taking elements from a carport or horse trailer, or the shipping container. The ability to leave the camper behind with the vehicle safely pulled inside at least is what I'm aiming for. If I could have a bed and make it useful as a flatbed or rollback, all the more handy. Forgoing all the crazy hydraulics, some pull out ramps would do for vehicle loading. The vehicles in question are my old M38A1 Jeep or the Chevette (try not to laugh). Each are right around 2000lbs. The 'vette may be under, the Jeep a bit over.
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That box is closer to my size, but I like the idea of the box being on a bed and capable of dismounting. Having a vehicle in during this isn't really necessary, and neither is flooring for that rear section. It could just be a roof with some walls kinda framed up and maybe a door of some sort, kinda taking elements from a carport or horse trailer, or the shipping container. The ability to leave the camper behind with the vehicle safely pulled inside at least is what I'm aiming for. If I could have a bed and make it useful as a flatbed or rollback, all the more handy. Forgoing all the crazy hydraulics, some pull out ramps would do for vehicle loading. The vehicles in question are my old M38A1 Jeep or the Chevette (try not to laugh). Each are right around 2000lbs. The 'vette may be under, the Jeep a bit over.
I actually owned a Chevette
At the same time I also owned a 71 TransAm
Sold the Chevette and kept the Trans am ...
Why the crew cab ?
You taking family on the road ?
And why leave the camper and car behind ?
Depends on if you're going to spend more time driving or parked
If I was spending more time driving id want a camper that was a walk thru from the cab
Did you see this one that was on bringatrailer a while back ?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/6d90fe9e1753f99afbaa812b41f97ddb.jpg)
Sounds like you need this
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/af165cf62d876098dd6f8ad443188285.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/9cd256f3f504fd9b8c01f9c192b5d2c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/1965037aade5d00b43e0133720816a5d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/7f63963d8b46924f99916897bad6d35d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/f5c3c851cfbdb13ccbef6e0e689d9231.jpg)
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That first one looks nuts, but pretty cool. The one on the F-650, I've seen some with that kinda foldout section over the cab, maybe that one. I like that idea for sure, as well as slideouts. The roll-off bed frame is also up my alley. Any of those truck/camper would sort of meet my requirements aside from the vehicle hauling bit, and maybe some more general purpose room in the box. I'm shooting for about 25' total, I think I mentioned.
Ideally I can use the rig to put the camper in places for long stretches and potentially make side money with the truck itself, or leave the camper at a vacation property at times. For a guy that really isn't bad at driving with a trailer, I still usually try to avoid it, so having a truck bed available is useful, especially as opposed to the Jeep, the car or bikes.
On the people end I'd like to have room to sleep 4-6 and even use the truck cab if I can rig it up right or steal some conversion van seats. A typical motorhome/RV with the ability to just walk through would be great, and one with a toyhauler bay in the back would be amazing, but I think starting a bit more from scratch would save me money and repair headaches. The idea of rainwater coming in while engine fluids are trickling out seems backwards, so I'll source an appropriate powertrain if I can't find a truck with one and get it right before installing (I'm kinda partial to Detroit Diesel in this application, but not dead set.) What I'm trying to say is I can probably save at least 25% $ vs a used RV of similar size/features if I take my time and do it myself. Perhaps closer to 50%.
Its ideal purposes would be as mentioned as well as moving me and a few other musicians around on small regional tours, but the prospect of 4WD is kinda awesome for actually enjoying the travelling. I know most trail rigs aren't duallies and they usually prefer small, low, light campers, but I'm leaning more towards the tank approach to offroading in this instance. The idea of the exo-cage going bumper-to-bumper is also pretty rad but I'm not sure if I'd try to take it that far. I think a strong enough box with some good framing will support weight right on top of it, or on its walls (ladders, bicycles, solar panels, slide outs, awnings..)
Still, trying to shoot below shipping container weight, but maybe not much or at all in the end. a 5000lb box may be just what I need. Keeping it from sliding off the bed and figuring out a mounting/dismounting setup will be projects in their own right.
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Using the truck commercially as a business opens a whole nother can of worms with the DOT
If you're gonna have several people traveling along I'd want the walk thru for sure
Maybe a motorhome kind of deal
And just tow your car on a trailer or flat tow it
Having a vehicle in the living space is going to stink it up
I think this is what you want right ?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/66f58df60fa7ba8a2ab5e8fc7bd8e1f1.jpg)
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You thought about one of these ?
Wouldn't be too hard to make a inflatable seal for a walk thru and build a nice camper box on the tractor
And still have plenty of capacity for a trailer
I thought about doing that when I semi retire
Travel the country and sightsee and haul enough freight on the trailer to pay for it
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/14692543000c57caf224b06fee7448d3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/709ddd39720aa507c008ce398dcee319.jpg)
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You thought about one of these ?
Wouldn't be too hard to make a inflatable seal for a walk thru and build a nice camper box on the tractor
And still have plenty of capacity for a trailer
I thought about doing that when I semi retire
Travel the country and sightsee and haul enough freight on the trailer to pay for it
That is rather nifty. If I involve a trailer I'll probably just try to overdo that as well. The trailer actually looks like it's hiding music gear. The big sliding curtain thing or beer truck rollup doors on the side like that would be handy for performances. Mind you I've gotta think about a drum set, PA, instruments and respective amplifiers. I can slimline that a lot for traveling but quality does suffer after a certain point.
And to be realistic, if I'm to do this I'm aiming to keep it under $10-12k and that involves a decent amount of recycled building materials, the truck I already have, a hypothetical cheap medium duty truck, and if the truck, a good powertrain to go with it. I know my 6.5 won't cut it, however the 454 would probably do. It still needs some valvetrain work but should be as good as the MDT big blocks if I recall. I'd really like better fuel economy though, so I prefer the diesel option.
I think this is what you want right ?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171030/66f58df60fa7ba8a2ab5e8fc7bd8e1f1.jpg)
That's close, but it needs a lift, pontoons, propeller, rotors and artillery mounted on there. Oh and a winch. Maybe a wench as well.
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Sounds like you just need a bus with a basement to store all the luggage and band equipment and build some bunks and a nice bath and shower in the back
Www.skoolie.net
Is a good site for building motor homes
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i didn't have time to read thru the whole thread, but i would think the medium duty frames are larger, completely straight from front to back, and possibly spread wider apart. All of that is probably better for what you need.
A container, while very durable, is very heavy. Why not use a regular cargo box, such as from a u-haul truck?
i am actually very confused as to what you are trying to do and may or may not comment further next weekend depending on how much time i got. How are you going to put a 20' container on the back of a CC truck?
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i am actually very confused as to what you are trying to do and may or may not comment further next weekend depending on how much time i got. How are you going to put a 20' container on the back of a CC truck?
Well part of the 20' would be hacked to hang over the cab. Even so, the frame would need stretched maybe 6'. The horse trailer was a nice alternative, but most are only 6' wide whereas I'm shooting for 8'. I'd agree the bigger truck is probably better suited, but I still may need to stretch one if I can't find one long enough. The cargo boxes may be usable if stretched over the cab, but most I've seen are just a hair underbuilt for my purposes, and it would need totally reworked on the floor to be a unit easily fitted on and off a real bed, rather than fixed directly to the frame.
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Again, don't have time to discuss deeply until the weekend, if that.
But, until then, i want to put something down so i don't forget:
Consider Isuzu cabover truck.
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Again, don't have time to discuss deeply until the weekend, if that.
But, until then, i want to put something down so i don't forget:
Consider Isuzu cabover truck.
Actually found a crew cab one this morning with a kinda nifty box on the back. $20k though. Maybe it wouldn't be too willy nilly to use a 73-87 squarebody based truck? Got that in the driveway.
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Kinda off topic, I know there's some work to fit a MDT front clip, but did the clip itself on the bigger trucks evolve about the same as ours? I've seen some variations but dunno the details.
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I think I've figured out the styling changes, but now I'm curious about medium duty vs heavy duty frames and other differences. I'd like the Brigadier/Bruin front clip if possible but would like to avoid CDL necessity.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/856c5abc8f72a4773140b2525adb5842.jpg)
This would make a nice motorhome/tow rig
The cargo box is very sturdy
Probably not a lot of miles on a moving van either
Cheaper than a nice pickup
And easily registered as a motorhome so you're exempt from most or all of the CDL regs except maybe the air brake test
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That is a nice one for the price indeed. I may end up going with something like that when it's all said and done, but it's hard to say as the projects stack up. Got a LUV with a flatbed right now I'm considering pairing up with a teardrop on the bed or a 5x10 I've got in the yard. Definitely too little for extended trips or company but that may take priority as it's simply easier and all. Regardless I'd like to do something as mentioned with the crew cab one day. Still haven't gotten any of the real pertinent info to doing it "my way" but nobody ever does :D
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From years of experience - you will end up paying 10x what that moving van costs on just the hardware and incidentals for you opposed modifications to your dually, not to mention the years of working on it instead of using it.
Do you just want to dream, do you want a project, or do you want to load up and go have the real adventure?
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From years of experience - you will end up paying 10x what that moving van costs on just the hardware and incidentals for you opposed modifications to your dually, not to mention the years of working on it instead of using it.
Do you just want to dream, do you want a project, or do you want to load up and go have the real adventure?
It's scalable