To winch or not to winch

[darmentle]

Hey guys i have decided to order a sweet front off road bumper for my 73 . And it comes with a spot for the winch i have been looking at some cheaper options other then warn. My thoughts are this is my daily driver and i do go off road every once in awhile and so yes it would be nice if a situation came up where i was in need of a winch .So i was looking at a Tuff Stuff 9500lb Winch on eBay. Is this winch worth buying or is it just junk? I can fit up to a 12k in the bumper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151176447337?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[bake74]

     For your situation it would be fine.  You are not going to use it for competition, so the slow line speed will not be a problem.  I like the fact it comes with a waterproof cover, nice if it works right.
     If you carry a pulley and tackle with you, the 85' ( 42.5 if doubled ) should give you more than enough length and pulling power to get you or someone else unstuck.
     I have had a winch on 4 of my vehicles, 2 trucks that were used for mudding and camping and such, and 2 that were jeeps that were built for the hard core rocks.  I have used a winch on myself 5 - 6 times, many more on other vehicles and some on recovery from roll overs.  It is like the old saying goes, nice to have one and not need it, then to need it and not have one.
     Do your self a huge favor though, weld the nuts onto the bolts so your winch does not come up missing one day.

[winky]

     Do your self a huge favor though, weld the nuts onto the bolts so your winch does not come up missing one day.

:/ That is good advice... i might do it to mine. i have a warn 12k lb winch  on my mud truck ive used it on my truck once and boy i was happy to have it. it sucks getting stuck in the middle of no where at 1am and not know how your gonna get out.. so i always said id have one on my truck. ive used it on about 4 other peoples vehicles (i like to show off and back up to there vehicle and just hooks chains and pull them threw .) BUT thats not always an option. if i were you i would also look at HB's Winches. they have a 12k lb Badland winch for about that price. i had one for about a year and a half and was very impressed for the $250 i spent (i pulled a mini van over 2 parking bricks and up on to my trailer with it in park...long story...) only downfall was the seals on it. water got in it and i got in a pinch one day and needed it. instead of pulling it apart and letting it dry i pushed it until i messed it all up. shortly after that happened though i read where someone else had a similar problem took it back under warranty and on the new one they removed the caps and silicone everything including the control box and i think they said they had theirs for 2 years with now problems after that

[darmentle]

sweet thanks for the advice i ended up getting this its 12lb and little bit better.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200988456360?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[Irish_Alley]

You are recommended to get a winch 1.5x your gross weight. But you need to be able to pull/move 100% of your gw if you are just stuck to the sidewalls, 200% if you’re up to the hubs (your axle will act like a plow) and 300% if your up to your frame. Then you have to include if your on a slope or grade and what surface you are on i.e. rocks grass or mud. on top of all that i find a problem when im mudding that if and when i get stuck is there something around for me to which onto? if so can it hold me? also its better to have your winch on a trailer hitch out of the mud. so if you need to you can pull yourself backwards if nothing is available in front of you

[Jason S]

Hey guys i have decided to order a sweet front off road bumper for my 73 .

Do you have any links for the off road bumper you're ordering?

[darmentle]

Here is this link for the bumper i will post pics once i get it on.

http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product/custom-bumpers/chevy-gmc-front-winch-bumper-73-91.html

[bake74]

     That's a pre-runner style winch bumper.  I sure would like to see the pics when it is installed.

[darmentle]

yea still waiting on it to show up when it gets here i will update.

[Greybeard]

I was looking at the winch and the charts it gives for it. If you are not familiar with hoists there might be some things you don't realize.

Sorry...This is really long...I got carried away but here is my take on things...YMMV.

One; the ultimate line pull on a 12,500lb winch will probably never be realized in an electric winch on a truck. There are a lot of reason's for this but the primary one is in order to achieve this rating everything in the electrical system will have to be perfect or better. Any voltage drop will drop the motor power in the winch. A voltage drop will happen immediately upon firing up the winch with a load on it.

The wire rope they send with a winch will no doubt NOT be up to the task for a maximum power single line pull for more than a few times. A wire rope made in Mexico is a disaster waiting to happen.

The snatch block they send needs a sheave on it at least 7-1/2" diameter with sides that thoroughly support the rope inside the sheave so it does not flatten out. That is a great way to ruin a wire rope.

The chart say's that maximum pull/ single line is made with 17.6 feet of rope in a smooth flat layer on the drum. There are very good reason's for this amount of rope being on the drum. That is the minimum friction coefficient necessary (the amount of friction between the wire rope and drum itself) to keep the rope from ripping out of the wedge key (assuming that is how it's held onto the drum) any shorter amount on the drum needs to be accompanied by a lesser line pull.

As the chart says, each wrap diminishes the rated pull pretty drastically. NEVER   ever try to do a maximum line pull with overlapping wraps. Great way to pinch the rope and flatten it, both of which reduce it's strength for next time. Bird cages (nests) are really bad and look just they way the description says they do. Broken wires may not bring you to a halt because you aren't doing overhead lifting ( you won't be right?) A truck winch can be easily used for that, although it is extremely and highly recommended that you don't, especially with this type of winch- planetary gear set style. If you had a worm gear drive it gets a bit safer but not much.

The more wraps that are on the winch the slower you move, the more parts in the line the slower you move, be aware that if you have a complicated set, say a pull between three different vehicles with the last part hugging a tree being multiple parts, that last multiple lined part determines how fast everything will move, BTDT. 

For example, when I would have a 8 part line in the crane with a 1000lb block and I wanted it on the ground from 110' in the air, I could put the hoist in free fall, get out, go eat lunch and be back in time to see the last 10 ' of fall. The hoist would be singing it would be spinning so fast. But for every 10 feet of fall it had to release 80 feet of rope (10feet x 8parts =80 feet); rope necessary to move 8 part line 110'= 880'. Although I am exaggerating the time required it's to prove a point...more line parts can get to the point where on a truck winch you need to get out and draw lines to see if anything is in fact moving, you can see the line going in but nothing else is going anywhere. However, with only 88' feet of rope I don't think that would be a problem too often. (is that 88' total or 88' of useable off the drum?)

It's always better to use the full capacity of the parts of line technique if possible without exceeding the winches duty cycle. But beware, I've seen winches ripped right off half ton frames before or frame rails in front narrowed considerably when the radiator support (yes, I'm joking) collapsed. Especially in heavy mud with big tires.

Irish's suggestion of using a hitch mount is a good one until you need that max pull and it's not centered to the truck. May or not work depending on the quality of the hitch mounted to the frame.

I've seen a few destroyed trucks simply because someone bolted a big winch to a stock 1/2 ton frame and thought nothing of the forces the frame is subjected to. Not to mention the spring hangers, axle u-bolts, shocks (in deep heavy mud), brake lines, etc.  Granted, 99% of the time nothing bad will happen but it's always good to think of the worst case just to know when to draw the line. A truck with one frame rail two inches farther forward looks odd trying drive down the street in crab mode. 

My credentials...I was a heavy lift crane operator for twenty years, I ran with deep water 4 wheelers prior to that and spent many years playing in deep mud as well. I have been out of the playing with four wheelers scene for many years but I think the basics haven't changed that much.

When I worked on a pipeline in the Badlands of North Dakota near Williston I once assisted pulling a D9 cat with a 15' blade out of a slurry pit on a dredging operation across the Missouri river in which we broke a three part 1-1/2" set wire rope trying to do so. That rope came to within 6" of missing the back Hyster winch and going over the top and hitting the operator. (always throw a dead man over the pulling rope or there could ultimately be dead people) The new-to-the-slurry pit job cat operator left the thing idling in wet silty sand in the pit while he took an hour lunch. The vibration buried it to the belly pan in concrete-like fine river silt and sand. It took five hours, one 50 ton crane and three other D9's to get it unstuck. Even it's own blade wouldn't lift the front of the tracks out of the ground it was so tight. It started out as a fun respite during work, but dragging 1-1/2" wire rope is not easy in knee deep water. By dragging I mean about 5- 10 feet.

Anyway, have fun with the new winch, it looks really nice. Follow the instructions that come with it instead of the advice of people like me. The winch company knows their own product (hopefully they won't blow smoke so you don't hurt yourself or others). Just be very mindful of storing the cable smooth and neatly wrapped, keep it OILED; a rope is a machine, it has as many as, or more than, 114 moving parts which must slide smoothly across one another. My younger brother ditched the wire rope drum on his rock crawler jeep in favor of a braided synthetic fiber rope. Much nicer to the hands is all I can say. Whether it would last in the mud IDK.   

[darmentle]

Here is the bumper. Just beware i ordered mine a month ago and just got it they are really slow.

[bake74]

     I would like to see a pic from the sideish if possible, I like that is does not cover too much of the grille.  The sideways pic is because it looks like it leaves too much air gap between the top of the bumper and the bottom of your valence.  But it could be the angle, that is why I asked for another pic.

[Irish_Alley]

body lift?

[darmentle]

no suspension

[Irish_Alley]

that bumper makes your truck look like its missing something upfront. thats why i thought of a body lift, almost like the rear bumper has that space  after a body lift