Have spark have fuel but engine will not start

[swilliams]

I have a 1986 C10 that i have done a head change on. I have got the timing set around 12deg BTDC. I am getting fuel at the carb and spark to the plugs I checked the #1 and #2  for fire #1 got a  good blue spark with a new plug #2 more yellow orange with an old plug. I have a good ground strap from frame to head where it was before the swap. It doesn't even act like it wants to start. I have no idea unless the timing is some how off. I have been told that if the timing is 20deg off the engine will not start. Any ideas???

[thefarmboy21]

Sounds out of time or like carb problems. How do you know what the timing is set at if it's not running and hooking up a timing light?

[bd]

Remove the #1 spark plug and bump the engine to TDC compression.  Align the timing marks to 0°.  Is the distributor rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire?

[swilliams]

I have the balancer mark at 12deg before 0 and the rotor is pointing at #1.

[swilliams]

Just checked compression on #! and it has more compression than my cheapo tester can measure

[bd]

I'm trying to verify that the distributor isn't 180° out.  So, the rotor is pointing to the #1 distributor terminal when the # 1 cylinder is 12° BTDC compression?

Spray a little starting fluid down the carburetor while cranking.  Does it start or try to?

[swilliams]

I have pulled the plug and put a straw in the hole and the piston is right there. I am out of starting fluid so i have been using gas with no results. I read that the starter may not be turning engine fast enough so i just now went and put the charger on it turned it to 35 amps turned the engine over and got 1 backfire(the loudest i have ever heard neighbors came out and everything). Now nothing again. Very confused.

[Liltroy]

the backfire makes it sound like a timing issue HOWEVER I just went through the same thing with my 74, thought i was getting fuel cause it would squirt out the accelerator pump jet when i gave it gas but the problem with mine ended up being that the fuel pump was bad pushing less than 1 psi, enough to get a little gas to the carb but not enough to even try to start. $18 fuel pump and it fired right up. I would verify timing is correct, then buy a cheapo fuel pressure guage and verify youre getting fuel.

[rich weyand]

I think bd has it.  The distributor is probably 180 degrees out.

You should know that there are two TDC positions in the engine cycle: intake stroke, BDC #1, compression stroke, TDC #1, power stroke, BDC #2, exhaust stroke, TDC #2.  You want the spark firing on TDC #1 in this sequence.  I think it is at TDC #2, which will give you no no running and the occasional kaboom backfire through the carb.

On the TDC #1, compression stroke, the engine will push your thumb off the spark plug hole when cranking; on TDC #2 it won't.  Another way to check is to remove the valve cover: at TDC #1, both valves will be closed, and at TDC #2, they will both be partway open.

The solution is to remove the distributor cap, mark where the back of the rotor is, pull the distributor up a couple inches, rotate the rotor 180 degrees, and set it back down.  The oil pump pawl will reseat as it is because it is slotted like a screw head.  The rotor will rotate some as you pull the distributor out due to the helical gears, and it will rotate back the same amount when you drop the distributor back in.  That's OK as long as the front of the rotor ends up on the mark you made for where the back of it is.

Just had one of these on another forum.  It's easy to do.

[bd]

I have pulled the plug and put a straw in the hole and the piston is right there. I am out of starting fluid so i have been using gas with no results. I read that the starter may not be turning engine fast enough so i just now went and put the charger on it turned it to 35 amps turned the engine over and got 1 backfire(the loudest i have ever heard neighbors came out and everything). Now nothing again. Very confused.

Use your compression gauge or press your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole and bump the engine over until you see/feel compression building in the #1 cylinder.  Then align the timing marks and see where the rotor is pointing.

Here's why:  The #1 piston is at TDC twice for each distributor revolution.  In other words, the piston comes to TDC two times for every one time the rotor points toward the #1 plug wire.

It sounds like the distributor is 180° out of time.

If you determine the distributor is properly stabbed, then remove and dry the spark plugs before continuing.  Be methodical and eliminate ignition timing as the cause before jumping to something else.

[rich weyand]

Yeah, betcha if you find TDC under compression, when you open the distributor the rotor will be pointing at #6.

[swilliams]

Ok i have checked for the compression stroke on #1 then use wrench to finish turning to 12BTDC and rotor is pointing at #1. I wonder if i should take the rotor off and turn it around to #6 just to see?

[bd]

...If you determine the distributor is properly stabbed, then remove and dry the spark plugs before continuing....

Once you've done this ^^^^^, try the starter fluid trick.

[fitz]

  The outer ring on the harmonic balancer has been known to slip.  This will throw off the timing mark.  Prior to doing the heads, when was the last time you had a timing light on it?  There is also a chance that the timing chain jumped a few teeth.
  As others have said, pull the #1 plug and place your finger over the hole. Have someone bump the motor over until your finger feels the compression (it may take a few tries to get the feel of it).  Now pull the dist cap and verify that the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug wire

[swilliams]

I had a timing light on it recently. It may be a degree or 2 off but nothing significant. I went ahead and pulled the dist and turned it 180 and have the same results (no start).
The only results i have had was the backfire when i had the 32 amp battery charger hooked up.