Author Topic: Starter issue  (Read 3562 times)

Offline Robin289

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Starter issue
« on: August 14, 2018, 09:16:10 AM »
1984 C30, 454, crew cab dually. Last week the starter started the truck but then kept spinning.  It was not engaged with the flywheel, but never shut off.  Disconnected the battery to shut it down.  Took the starter to the auto parts store and had it tested, it did work as it should on their system after several attempts but did get rather hot.  Installed a re-manufactured starter, cranked once and the starter kept running without engaging the flywheel. Once again had to disconnect the battery to turn it off.  Auto parts replaced with another starter (without testing it).  Hooked up the battery and the starter started running.  Again with no engagement of the the flywheel.  I have it wired with two cables to the larger post (one form the positive battery post , one taking the power to the truck) and the ignition wire to the "S" post.  Any suggestion?  Are my two "new" starters just bad? (the second one tested fine on the tailgate using a battery charger prior to installing it)   Is the truck frying the solenoids?  Thanks Robin

Online bd

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 09:47:03 AM »
The starter doesn't use "ignition" power.  Begin by making sure that none of the wires attached to the starter solenoid are inadvertently touching (shorting to) any solenoid terminals other than the terminals to which they are fastened.  Identify the various wires using wire colors, the 1983 wiring manual and a test light.  The battery cable and two fusible links should be connected to the B+ stud of the solenoid.  Use your test light to determine which wire is hot in the crank position of the ignition switch - this is the only wire that should connect to the "S" terminal of the solenoid.  No wires connect to the "R" terminal.
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline JohnnyPopper

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 02:47:26 PM »
Do you have a tilt type steering wheel? Is your steering column loose?

I know it sounds goofy but it almost sounds like the linkage inside your steering column that fires the ignition switch may be stuck.

Mine was loose and I ignored it till the linkage slider behind the wheel snapped. In a mall parking structure no less!

If it is a tilt type, try moving the position to see if it stops.

If it's loose, you will have to remove the wheel to tighten 4 torx screws that hold it down.
1957 Apache 3100 235 Inline 6, 3 on the tree
1973 C-20, 3+3 454 4BBL TH400  Water Injection
1978 K-10, 350 4BBL TH350 NP203 M.M. Part time Kit/Hubs
1980 C-10 under construction

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2018, 07:55:32 AM »
I have been fight on going electrical issues for about six month now.  So the positive battery cable is new, and the terminal ends on the other two wires have been replaced.  I do not see where there is any short between the posts.  I have the battery cable and one other cable to the B+ post.  The other cable runs eventually to a fusible link, then to the fire wall.  I assume that it splits in the wiring harness and attaches to the alternator as well.  I have replaced the fusible link near the firewall and one at the alternator.  If there are any fusible links near the starter I am not finding them. 

It is not a tilt wheel.  And the ignition switch is more than loose.  It actually hangs below the steering column and I have a scrap metal rod that is a perfect for engaging the switch. 

What I don't understand is what is causing the starter to run without the gear extending to engage the flywheel?  It is wired as it has been since I have owned the truck.  I have seen discussions of solenoids "welding" themself open.  I think my next step is to remove the started again and bench test it.   

As a side note, about two months ago I replaced the positive battery cable.  I was chasing the Chevy Starter Syndrome of not starting after getting hot.  Somewhere something went very wrong...I endended up melting all the insulation off the positive cable, some of the negative cable and melting the terminal end on the positive causing the lead to melt a hole through the top of the battery. The alternator has also been replaced.

Thanks for all the input.  Robin

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2018, 08:08:07 AM »
One other thing.  Even with the ignition switched removed the starter still "runs" once the battery is connected.  Thanks  Robin

Online bd

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2018, 09:19:31 AM »
The wiring is incorrectly connected to the starter and possibly crossed up or shorted somewhere between the firewall and the starter.  Post pics of the wires connecting to the starter.  What's the story behind the ignition switch dangling loose and a scrap metal rod?
Rich
It's difficult to know just how much you don't know until you know it.
In other words... if people learn by making mistakes, by now I should know just about everything!!!
87 R10 Silverado Fleetside 355 MPFI 700R4 3.42 Locker (aka Rusty, aka Mater)

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2018, 11:16:14 AM »
the previous electrical issues had me tracing everything from ignition switch to starter and distributor cap.  I never put the switch back in and used the rod to engage it. I started liking it, made the truck more "unique".  I will get pictures of the wiring as soon as I can.  Thanks  Robin

Offline JohnnyPopper

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 02:02:58 PM »
In a perfect world, voltage to the solenoid can only come from the ignition switch. If the starter spins when the battery is connected, then the switch must be engaged, and possibly stuck. I believe they are spring loaded. Perhaps your custom rod dealeo has damaged the switch? Disconnect the solenoid wire from the starter, apply battery voltage and test the switch.

As for the non-engagement of the pinion gear to the flywheel there are two possibilities: the centrifugal clutch is bad, or the starter is mis-aligned because of using the wrong mounting bolts. Stock starter bolts have a larger shank right under the hex head, this aligns the starter with the flywheel. Using standard bolt won't work- for long.
1957 Apache 3100 235 Inline 6, 3 on the tree
1973 C-20, 3+3 454 4BBL TH400  Water Injection
1978 K-10, 350 4BBL TH350 NP203 M.M. Part time Kit/Hubs
1980 C-10 under construction

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 03:39:28 PM »
I don't believe that it is the ignition switch, because the starter will run even with the switch unplugged.  The bolt are the proper ones with the long shank. My starter alignment is close, not perfect but should be hitting some teeth.  When the battery is hooked back up I don't here that slight difference in the clutch popping the gear forward and just it spinning.  I will test the ignition wire for constant current.  I'm also going to bench test the starter.  I hope to get to it this weekend but other people have plans for me.  Thanks again.  Robin

I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, But right before the starter issue I lost my headlight.  Have all other light, no headlights.  Haven't even started looking for the why on this issue yet.

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 04:41:06 PM »
so as soon as you add the main B+ wire to the starter does it engage then even without the switch plugged in?
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 07:13:41 AM »
Yes it starts running no matter what.  Over the weekend I was able to do some work on Zeek.  I bench tested the starter,  worked as it should.  Tested the ignition wire for a constant charge, not energized.  However everything on the starter was energized.  Found that the ignition wire was broken at an old junction.  Relocated the second cable on the B+ post to the positive battery post and fixed the broken ignition wire.  Zeek started right up.  I still don't get the issue with the starter running as soon as the battery is hooked back up, but since it is no longer doing it, I'm happy.  Thank You all for your help!  Robin


Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 07:16:18 AM »
Above is my junk box repair of the ignition switch.  These are my starter bolts.

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 07:24:02 AM »
Sorry posted same picture twice.

Offline Robin289

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 07:25:00 AM »
The last picture is my next repair!

Offline JohnnyPopper

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Re: Starter issue
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 04:49:00 PM »
those are the right bolts. Does that mean you had no fun last weekend?  ;)

Glad it worked our for Zeek!
1957 Apache 3100 235 Inline 6, 3 on the tree
1973 C-20, 3+3 454 4BBL TH400  Water Injection
1978 K-10, 350 4BBL TH350 NP203 M.M. Part time Kit/Hubs
1980 C-10 under construction