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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: LTZ C20 on August 11, 2014, 10:04:22 PM
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Hey all, I am considering going to TBI. My carb is not working well with my engine. It works pretty good when the engine is hot but, not so well when colder. The engine is not very air conditioning friendly. I would need a throttle solenoid to compensate for idle.
Also I'm pretty much the only one who can drive it. When it buggers out I know what to do. However, if my girlfriend or mom would need it, they wouldn't know what to do if it had a spaz moment.
The engine will sometimes die, either coming to a stop or just off from stop. I have spent a total of 5 calls and 2 hours on the phone with Holley trying to rectify these issues, along with a dieseling and floating idle problem.
After many discussions with holley, friends and an old school drag racer, I think it's in my best idea to go TBI. So here I would like suggestions for systems, curtain brands to look at and stay away from. I'm on a somewhat of a budget here also. So systems are too expensive, others are easily do-able.
I just want to make sure I make a good and reliable choice if I'm going to spend this much money again on this new engine.
So here is what I have found:
-FAST makes a nice system. It's the EZ-EFI system. A little over my budget but seems to be a very good candidate.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fst-30227-kit (http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fst-30227-kit)
-Howell Engine Development makes a very nice system that is also in my budget. This is what the old racer recommended I get. He said he has installed a few of these systems, they work good and he likes them.
https://howellefi.com/tbi-kit-universal-v-8.html (https://howellefi.com/tbi-kit-universal-v-8.html)
So tell me what you think? Have you guys used any other affordable systems that work good with mild performance street engines?
The Howell system appears to be friendly with my existing intake and distributor also. I would like to try and stay away from changing my intake and distributor. Keep the cost down and still be the engine I set out to build. I'm leaning toward the Howell. I have looked at other setups, most are far beyond my ability. Budget is about 1500, so please be kind to my wallet haha.
Here are some other articles I found while researching.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9812_carburetor_to_tbi_conversion/ (http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9812_carburetor_to_tbi_conversion/)
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/04/quick-install-efi-on-any-older-pickup.html (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/04/quick-install-efi-on-any-older-pickup.html)
Thanks in advance for all input and suggestions!!
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We just tossed a Edlebrock and installed TBI
We purchased a TBI system from a 1990 model pickup
And got to hear it run before we pulled it
(seller had no antifreeze last winter. Cracked block )
Took about two hours to pull everything
Guy said for $200 we could take any thing we wanted from truck
We spent an addl $300 or so for the adapter plate , inline pump ,filters ,hoses relays etc
The system is the same for 305 and 350 just different injectors in the TBI unit
The 305 is very common
I think
The system from a v6 will work also just by swapping injectors
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Yes I have heard about that. It sounds relatively cheap and easy and reliable.
I actually called the Howell place today to question them about there system. They asked me about my heads, cam and such. They said they can include a heated O2 sensor, ac and transmission TCC lock up. If something isn't quiet right, I should call them and they burn a new chip and send it to you for free. Very nice system, very adaptable and easy to repair if needed.
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I would choose the Howell it is the GM setup just wired stand alone.
I pulled the wiring and TBI stuff off a motor that I think I still have.
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I ended up going with the Howell kit. I ordered it on Friday and should be here Thursday or Friday of this week. I will write up a full build on the install.
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I ended up going with the Howell kit. I ordered it on Friday and should be here Thursday or Friday of this week. I will write up a full build on the install.
Interested on seeing how this goes LTZ C20.
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I've been doin alot of research. As far as I have found, it's supposed to be able to do in one day. It's supposed to be very easy and a well built kit. It's reliable and pays for itself in fuel savings alone. I guess we find out.
Here's what I got:
-Howell universal TBI conversion kit. This one is for the big block. They recommended this one because it's a 670 cfm and would be more efficient with my very non stock engine haha.
-heated oxygen sensor, recommended for vehicles with headers and dual exhuast.
-I also got them to add some extra wiring my air conditioning and trans TCC.
-Howell's mechanical to electric speed sensor converter. Mounts inline with the speedo cable, either between the 2 cable halves or right at the tail shaft cable mount on the transmission itself. Needed for for TCC.
And after asking my about almost every part of my engine, they are sending a custom chip. They say if it's not right or needs something, call, they will burn another modified chip and send it to me for free.
I have to say the customer service was excelllent, salesman was very knowledgeable and helpful and the receptionist was very kind and curtious. So for very impressed with the company. All in total cost was just over $1600 and they covered the shipping for me. :D
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You made a good choice. A few places I know locally use their stuff.
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Excellent! Another good review! I honestly can't wait to do this. I'm planning on doin the swap this weekend.
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take pics, notes and pass it on..
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Oh don't worry there will be plenty of that.
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hows the power? i had a few 88s didnt like how slow they seemed in mid range currently drive a 78 350/350 4x4 and love it had problems like you were talking about. dieseling is because of too rich of mixture. and the other stuff sounds like vacuum problems. i am using a stock qaudra jet. i eliminated most of the vac lines with caps and took the advance line from the intake it was going off the carb and i think that was most of my problem. now it seems way faster than my tbis were. but i had those when they were old and tired and i was not as handy 10 years ago. any plans to dyno it?
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I have been using the TBI kit for a few months now and it has been EXCELLENT. Fuel milage is WAYYY better than it was with carb, especially because I can lock up the torque converter with the computer too. That's sooo nice. The power is awesome, runs great, sounds freaking amazing and I can use my new A/C!
I have my notes and pics for doing a build thread, just been so busy and every since the Tapatalk app did it's first update like a month ago I can't upload pics anymore, so I'll have to put them all on the computer and do my right up there.
Only problem I've been having is my throttle cable is 2 long and old and stretched and I can only get the motor up to 1/2 throttle when I floor it. I was gonna get the throttle cable from a 80s square body with the TBI but then found out that cable is longer than mine and would only make the problem worse. Oh well, I'll get it fixed one day, for now it stops me from really getting that thing any faster than 3000 rpm, helps save on gas haha. Other than that the kit was well worth it.
I had a lot of problems and didn't know that when I built the engine I accidently built one that didn't like carbs, no heat exchange in the heads or intake. So fuel injection it was and has been totally the best.
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the cable length wont a part of how much throttle you give it. if you pull the cable 3" on the gas pedal side it has to pull 3" on the tbi side. the only thing you can do is relocate the mounting point on the tbi. take a picture
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I've tried to find a good place to move the bracket but can't. Not with my setup. I've got a big loop like a roller coaster in the cable and I tired to bend the pedal bar more for more travel but that didn't work either. Probably just gonna get a new pedal assembly and shorten the cable.
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not really where the cable mounts on the intake but on the tbi unit itself. im not sure if its your problem or not, thats why i was asking for a picture just to see if we could something wrong
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Yea I honestly don't get it. Used to work fine, ever since the update parade it's all stopped working.
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/20/65c09773c612b513806ffda650e09267.jpg)
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get a better profile view. there looks to be slack in the cable and its at a bad angle imo.
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How the heck did that pic get there?!?! Did you load it from the PM??
By profile pic do you mean from the side? On my old engine when the cable was straight it worked fine, now that the new motor is in and it has a curl in it that's causing the problem I think. It's just simply to long and the curl messes it up. But that's the best way to mount the bracket for my setup so I think I just need to shorten it or get a custom cable made or make one.
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I'll get a side view pic in the day time today later. How do I do the img code thing? Maybe it will work that way.
Also, how did you get it in my post? Some kind of voodoo moderater magic??
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(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/22/5c5452389499d27401d6bb7cd78d6cf8.jpg)
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What ya think Irish? I don't think it's really that part that's the issue. I think it's the big curly cue that creates extra cable instead of a short straight shot. The curly gives the gas pedal slop cuz there's too much cable.
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i want to say it too much at a angle but want to wait till a second opinion chimes in
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Oh ok. I just thought about this too, I could cut the plastic sheath off right at the base of the small tube, so it exited right out at the bracket retainer part. That would probably fix the angle, making it a straight line, won't do anything for the loop tho.
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Where did that bracket come from? I think you should try flipping it over (bottom side up) The curl in the back isn't a huge issue.
When you depress the accellerator what does the cable look like?
Crummy pic but this is what the TBI looked like on mine as far as cables:
(http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/projects/87R10-Driver/TBI_top_off.jpg)
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i want to say it too much at a angle but want to wait till a second opinion chimes in
I second the to much of an angle theory.
That's a universal bracket that you have (looks like 1 from a carb).
Unbolt the 2 sections and make a spacer to raise up the top half of it. You will need longer bolts and I'm guessing maybe a 1" spacer.
Its kinda tough to describe. I can dig out a spare bracket and take a picture if you want.
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The bracket is a holley bracket. I modified it to be adjustable as it was not originally. I actually did a short right up on it here.
Would just cutting the plastic sleeve off at the base of the bracket clip part be enough? I think the loop really is a problem cuz when I step on the gas that area moves, it's flexes as the cable moves. The pedal has a lot of slop and from released to full depressed there's not much travel. I know for sure it's gotta be really streched.
Also, spacer between the bracket and tbi or the the 2 bracket halves?
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Did the bracket come with the kit? I don't think shortening will help due to the angle.
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I think the loop really is a problem cuz when I step on the gas that area moves, it's flexes as the cable moves. The pedal has a lot of slop and from released to full depressed there's not much travel. I know for sure it's gotta be really streched.
Also, spacer between the bracket and tbi or the the 2 bracket halves?
the reason the pedal has some slop is because the cable dosnt look tight. if you cut the plastic to better the angle it wont help the amount of cable travel.
the reason the loop moves is because its binding up at the opening cause of the angle. give it some time that cable should cut through the plastic.
i want to say if you move the throttle cable from the top hole to the bottom hole around 10°clock this will better your angle and take some slop out of the line. but it might not be enough leverage. but whats the worse that can happen?
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Bracket did not come with kit no. It came from O'Reilly's.
Irish I see what you mean about moving to the other hole but I think the stud on that linkage is not removable and was attached permit like. Could be wrong tho.
Now I'm thinking, (and this is just spit balling here), what if I took the part of the plastic that houses the loopy section and starting in the middle at the "peak" of the loop, I cut a small section out, making the loop smaller, then I just continue cutting out small sections until the loop is now a straight line, cutting carefully so that the 2 halves touch in the middle, I could then run some elcetrical tape over the joint and say a 4 inch piece of rubber hose of appropriate size and a few zip ties over the sheath to sturdy up the cut section. Wouldn't that in turn get rid of the loop, eliminating the funky angle at the back of the bracket clip area and the excess cable could be pulled tight under the dash and secured with one of those cable crimp things with the 2 holes the cable goes thru and you hammer or crush to hold tight.
Cable would be tight again tight?
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zZvOswpSOuE/TjtchSxv2AI/AAAAAAAAAic/fWeIU0otXdw/FigD9-Harness_installed2.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wmubexWsDQw/Tjtcg9Lkz8I/AAAAAAAAAiU/l7qLn1UiAZQ/FigD7-Plugged_in_fuel.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jAjLxhN9mOE/Tjtcgqvw4HI/AAAAAAAAAiM/1oEidvaMDRs/FigD5-Throttle_bracket_installed.jpg)
https://sites.google.com/site/k5blazertbi/
(http://www.diyautotune.com/jwplayer_viral/images/tech/carb_to_efi/part2/assembly/IMG_8685-1024.jpg)
does this help?
the other hole might not work out but you could just run a bolt that has a nut on one side of the bracket and another on the other side so it locks it in place. but tell you the truth i think you wont have to do this one you fix that angle
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but what cable did you go with?
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The spacer I was talking about would go between the 2 halfes of the universal bracket that you bought. You mentioned the bracket flexing, that sounds like part of the problem.
Any chance of getting a stock GM TBI bracket at the junkyard and making it work?
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The spacer I was talking about would go between the 2 halfes of the universal bracket that you bought.
Any chance of getting a stock GM TBI bracket at the junkyard and making it work?
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The cable is the stock, original throttle cable.
Fitz, I might have a confused you a bit. The bracket doesn't flex when I step on the gas pedal, the loop flexes. The bracket is solid as a rock. The loop flexes forward and back, not alot but a little with the forward and back motion of the pedal.
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The cable doesn't have to be tight as it only controls the opening of the throttle.
Chris Lucas
73-87chevytrucks.com
squarebody.biz
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Oh ok Capt. I thought that if it was tight then the slack would be all out and it b would work better.
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Gonna be doing an oil change, rotate tires and fix a leak so I'll try finding something to make a spacer and/or rearranging the cable and see how well I can get it to work better. I'll let ya guys know how it goes.
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But it worked fine at one point right?