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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: STxMunky on August 28, 2013, 11:24:39 AM
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I've seen a few of the posts here, but I am pretty new.
I'm looking to swap out my tranny some time in the future. I'd really like a 5 or 6 speed for highway usage, but don't want to lose much (any) the low gearing and overall durability I have currently with the 465. The truck is a DD/tow rig but I do a good amount of light/moderate wheeling with it. Nothing too intense..... yet. :D I'm building it in the future to handle some heavier off-roading - rock crawling, deep mud-running, etc.
My question is....
1) Does anyone have info/experience/references/pics on installing a NV5600 or the ZF S6-650 into their ride? I know the NV4500 is pretty dang easy but would really like to see if anyone has had success with a 6 speed. Any clearance issues with frame, exhaust, body? Any compatibility issues with the engine/transfer case?
2) How much did the overall build cost?
3) Any major differences between the NV5600 and ZF S6-650? How do they differ in toughness and reliability for towing/wheeling applications, longevity, cost, etc?
Again, I know a NV4500 install would be easier, simpler, and probably cheaper. If I have to, I'll resort to that. But I want to know for sure that I wouldn't be happier with a 6 speed.
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Can you even find a ZF6?
I have a ZF-6 in 4x4, and know where I can buy a 2WD, but the NV4500 is WAY more plentiful.
If you can find a ZF I'd go that way, but they are über rare.
Another thought, the NV4500 will drop right into your bell. However the ZF will need a hydraulic clutch like the 85+ used. There is no way to make a mechanical linkage work with a ZF since the bell is integral to the tranny case. The ZF uses an orbital hydraulic throwout bearing so don't even dream of making a fork type throw out work.
One other thought: The ZF 4x4 does not use a separate TC adapter like our square body trucks use. The transfer case bolts directly to the rear of the ZF's rear housing. Because if this the 2wd ZF uses an entirely different rear case half than does a 4x4 ZF.
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I think I could find one. I'm looking now, but don't need one yet. I could start hunting different scrap yards and Craigslist, eBay, etc to see if I can find a deal on one. So I have some time.
Why would you recommend the ZF over the NV5600? Just curious. Thanks for responding!
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Also, how exactly does it mount to an np205? A divorced t-case would go right with a 2wd tranny, but how would I hook up a 4x4 tranny? What does the output shaft look like/is there an adapter for ZF-to-np205? Also, how does the tranny mount to the motor (sbc)?
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I like the ZF for the extra up shift gear.
However, if you are just going for the OD, the NV4500 just makes more sense. There are tons of reasons to use the NV4500 that all make it easier to swap. The only advantage the ZF would have is if your engine has a narrow powerband and you tow a lot. The extra step makes up shifting with a load easier.
If you are going with the ZF using a 1980+ NP205 with the round mounting flange should bolt directly to the back of a 4x4 ZF. Input/output shaft compatibility is a mystery to me so you would have to research that yourself. You may be able to get a custom Atlas transfer case that will bolt directly to the ZF, but an Atlas is about $3,500 IIRC.
Try calling Advance Adapters. They should be able to answer your questions more accurately than I.
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Cool! The sm465 has always towed very very well for me, but I haven't pulled much that weighs over 12,000 lbs. So to think that it gets even better is crazy for me. :D I'd like a tranny that is slightly more than what I need, so that when I am towing, I'm not pushing my truck to its absolute limit.
My current tranny and t-case came out of a 1981, so I should have the right t-case without needing any additional equipment.
Thanks for all the info! It definitely helps.
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My $0.02...
Are you planning on staying with a 350 or going to a bigger powerplant? As the NV4500 was used behind 350, 454 and 6.0L Chevrolet V8 engines and 5.9L Dodge V8, 8.0L Dodge V10 and 5.9L Dodge I-6 diesel engines; it can hold up to a lot of power... Although, the ZF 6-speed would be an interesting swap...
I have a 2005 Chevy 2500 4x4 6.0L w/4.10's and when pulling the tractor (>12,000 lbs), the overdrive is unnecessary; though an extra gear between 3rd and 4th gear when at highway speed might be usefull.
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Yeah, I am staying with a 350. I have a mild setup right now: not sure on the heads or cam, they're probably stock. I don't even know if it is a 2 or 4 bolt main. The motor is not original to the truck. But I have the Edelbrock Performer intake, HEI distributor, Accel spark plugs and wires, and 650 Holley spread bore, mechanical secondaries. I guess I'm getting around 300 hp now.
In the future, I may run dual fuel. Or put a whole new motor in with tougher pistons and block, high performance heads, roller cam, and maybe even a turbo. But those are all distant future ideas, nothing I'll be doing in the next few years.
Do you think the NV4500 can handle more power than the ZF 6sp?
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Also, haven't heard anybody say anything about the NV5600. 0.o
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Do you think the NV4500 can handle more power than the ZF 6sp?
I wouldn't say the NV4500 would handle more power than the ZF, but it should easily stand up to most daily-driver/street-driven small block and big block engines.
Also, haven't heard anybody say anything about the NV5600. 0.o
In my opinion: if you were pulling lightly loaded trailers occasionally the NV5600 might be okay, but it isn't really a heavy-duty transmission.
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Jason, I think you have confused the NVG5600 with the NV3500.
The NVG5600 is the 6sp tranny Derdge uses behind the Cummins.
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Jason, I think you have confused the NVG5600 with the NV3500.
The NVG5600 is the 6sp tranny Derdge uses behind the Cummins.
Engineer, you are correct.
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I've got a NV5600 6 speed manual in my 1990 Suburban. It's a tight fit but there were no clearance issues with frame and body. You would need an adapter to mate it to a 350 engine.
<<Any major differences between the NV5600 and ZF S6-650? How do they differ in toughness and reliability for towing/wheeling applications, longevity, cost, etc?
One major difference is the NV5600 case is cast iron vs aluminum on the ZF. If you're going to tow heavy with massive torque, my advice hands down is go with the NV5600. It's the best unit ever put into a 1 ton for heavy towing. You'll understand once you look at the internals. The ZF 6 is the same unit chevy used in corvettes 20 years ago. Ford really helped it out by adding coolers when they started putting them in trucks but GM chose a different approach by running synthetic fluids designed to take more heat.They also added a bushing, lengthened the shifter throw, and a more angled helical cut on the gears to quiet them down and improve the shift "feel". It's a nice unit but keep the oil in both units from overheating and full of oil (stock nv5600's had both of these issues working against it) and towing hard I would put my money on the massive NV5600 any day.
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Cool! So it is possible. I definitely like the cast iron housing over aluminum.
So did you do the install yourself? What type of adapter did you need to fit your np205 t-case to it? How about bell housing?
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I know this is a little old, but I didn't want to start a new thread.
Does anybody know about installing a dual countershaft style of manual transmission? I was looking at the Eaton 9 speed. Any pros and cons? I know it would probably be heavy as heck, but I think you'd be able to more effectively keep the vehicle in a good rpm range.
Thoughts?
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