Author Topic: Crate Motor/ Small Block  (Read 1702 times)

Offline Shamrock Motors

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Crate Motor/ Small Block
« on: June 24, 2022, 01:41:37 PM »
Hello All,
 I am wondering if anyone has run into the issue of finding a new crate motor. Seems all the common areas to look, Summit , Jegs, Etc are either out of them or they are on back order. When I started my project of swapping out my 305 with a standard transmission I had my heart set on the 350/290 replacement engines that all the speed catalogues offered. Now I understand that they have been discontinued. Would anyone have an idea where I could get something close to that offering ?

Thanks

Online Shifty

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2022, 04:53:29 PM »
Covid was tough on everyone.  My first thought was ATK or Blueprint, but they're probably hurting for product as well.
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Offline VileZambonie

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2022, 06:09:31 PM »
"Due to GOVID"

Nothing better than your own. Or find a local talent in your area.
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Offline Mike81K10

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2022, 08:10:06 PM »
VZ is right on! Get one from a salvage yard and if you cannot get a good running engine, get one that you can rebuild. I did not know they were hard to come by. Good thing I still have one I rebuilt awhile back in my shed, 350 4 bolt bored 40.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

Offline printingguy

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2022, 07:41:15 PM »
I just installed a 350CID 400HP in my 86 chevy K10 stepside to replace my tired V6.  I got it from Engine Factory out of New Jersey. Great  engine and people were great.  Many options .
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Offline Stewart G Griffin

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2022, 10:15:19 PM »
It seems that the 350/290 crate is discontinued?    Strange how they would discontinue it, unless sales were slumping?

1) But let's say it wasn't discontinued:  i am not sure i would expect this, and other cheaper crate engines, to last very long?   What do you expect for $3000?
My goodwrench reman crate 4.3 never ran right----until i got the heads rebuilt.  Needed new valve seats and valves.  Now, it finally runs good.
i heard ATK remans engines for GM.   i do not have confidence in ATK irregardless if they remanufacture for GM or not.

2) You might be better off with the "truck" 350's:
#19432780

#12691671

#19432779

i don't have time to research but some of these have vortec heads and can probably make as much power as the 350/290.   Provided they are new, not remanufactured, they might be a good deal.

Offline peewee0413

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2022, 01:02:22 PM »


It seems that the 350/290 crate is discontinued?    Strange how they would discontinue it, unless sales were slumping?

1) But let's say it wasn't discontinued:  i am not sure i would expect this, and other cheaper crate engines, to last very long?   What do you expect for $3000?
My goodwrench reman crate 4.3 never ran right----until i got the heads rebuilt.  Needed new valve seats and valves.  Now, it finally runs good.
i heard ATK remans engines for GM.   i do not have confidence in ATK irregardless if they remanufacture for GM or not.

2) You might be better off with the "truck" 350's:
#19432780

#12691671

#19432779

i don't have time to research but some of these have vortec heads and can probably make as much power as the 350/290.   Provided they are new, not remanufactured, they might be a good deal.

I thought Vortec heads tend to have spark plug clearance issues with headers..
Heck Summit brand alluminum heads are decent and have fastburn style and "angled" plugs, close to vortec quality.. I bought a pair for 900 dollars or so years ago and likely made over 350 hp on a 350.. (dyno simulator with a known accuracy of 3-5% compared to a real dyno number, and internet builds like motortrend list regularly.)

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Offline haroldwca

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2022, 09:26:11 PM »
What do you expect for $3000?

*cough*sputter*Huh?*

Stewart, I'm certainly not mocking you or trying to be confrontational.  Maybe we don't have the same frame of reference, but I expect quite a lot for $3000.  To the OP, if I had $3k to spend on a new engine, I would find a usable short block.  Check local machine shops for engines people have failed to pick up.  Check local salvage yards.  Check all the usual online and in person used markets.  Put the word out among your vehicle friends that you're looking for a usable 350.  You'll find your engine if you look, and you won't pay four figures for it, you'll pay three.  Now you need to build it.  Have your machine shop perform the necessary machine work and assemble the short block.  You might find an engine with good heads, or maybe not.  But now you still have cash to buy a good set and have them checked out by your machine shop.  Select a good cam, lifters, and pushrods.   Now you're down to intake, carb, distributor, exhaust, and accessories.  Yes, I've failed to mention plugs, wires, oil, antifreeze, and a dozen other items, but we now have a rebuilt 350 for about $3000 (or maybe less if you scored a deal or two). 

What I've described is a budget build, but the engine you referenced sounded like one that might be dropped into a daily driver that you want to have respectable street and highway performance for your own enjoyment.  If you are, instead, building a vehicle for heavy duty use or a street/strip or track vehicle, then my way is not the way to go.  Let us know how you proceed and what you find.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 09:12:46 AM by bd »

Offline peewee0413

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2022, 09:53:40 PM »
What do you expect for $3000?

*cough*sputter*Huh?*

Stewart, I'm certainly not mocking you or trying to be confrontational.  Maybe we don't have the same frame of reference, but I expect quite a lot for $3000.  To the OP, if I had $3k to spend on a new engine, I would find a usable short block.  Check local machine shops for engines people have failed to pick up.  Check local salvage yards.  Check all the usual online and in person used markets.  Put the word out among your vehicle friends that you're looking for a usable 350.  You'll find your engine if you look, and you won't pay four figures for it, you'll pay three.  Now you need to build it.  Have your machine shop perform the necessary machine work and assemble the short block.  You might find an engine with good heads, or maybe not.  But now you still have cash to buy a good set and have them checked out by your machine shop.  Select a good cam, lifters, and pushrods.   Now you're down to intake, carb, distributor, exhaust, and accessories.  Yes, I've failed to mention plugs, wires, oil, antifreeze, and a dozen other items, but we now have a rebuilt 350 for about $3000 (or maybe less if you scored a deal or two). 

What I've described is a budget build, but the engine you referenced sounded like one that might be dropped into a daily driver that you want to have respectable street and highway performance for your own enjoyment.  If you are, instead, building a vehicle for heavy duty use or a street/strip or track vehicle, then my way is not the way to go.  Let us know how you proceed and what you find.


I have probably 7k in my engine(including machine shop work, all new accessories, exhaust, and EFI.
Transmission with aftermarket controller, front end rebuild makes for around 11k. Still looks like shat on the outside and I won't do a thing to the outside. Inside is getting a big   and Summit order. Truck would never sell for what I plan to put in it. I will never get rid of this truck anyways, was the last vehicle and engine build my father and I did before he died.

https://youtu.be/1_0lmjTg4qo


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« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 09:14:38 AM by bd »

Offline Stewart G Griffin

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2022, 09:23:12 AM »
What do you expect for $3000?

*cough*sputter*Huh?*

Stewart, I'm certainly not mocking you or trying to be confrontational.  Maybe we don't have the same frame of reference, but I expect quite a lot for $3000.  To the OP, if I had $3k to spend on a new engine, I would find a usable short block.  Check local machine shops for engines people have failed to pick up.  Check local salvage yards.  Check all the usual online and in person used markets.  Put the word out among your vehicle friends that you're looking for a usable 350.  You'll find your engine if you look, and you won't pay four figures for it, you'll pay three.  Now you need to build it.  Have your machine shop perform the necessary machine work and assemble the short block.  You might find an engine with good heads, or maybe not.  But now you still have cash to buy a good set and have them checked out by your machine shop.  Select a good cam, lifters, and pushrods.   Now you're down to intake, carb, distributor, exhaust, and accessories.  Yes, I've failed to mention plugs, wires, oil, antifreeze, and a dozen other items, but we now have a rebuilt 350 for about $3000 (or maybe less if you scored a deal or two). 

What I've described is a budget build, but the engine you referenced sounded like one that might be dropped into a daily driver that you want to have respectable street and highway performance for your own enjoyment.  If you are, instead, building a vehicle for heavy duty use or a street/strip or track vehicle, then my way is not the way to go.  Let us know how you proceed and what you find.

No, that's fine----i want good discussion.

What i meant was about these basic crate engines----like the 350 base and 350/290hp.  Not too long ago, they were about $1500-1800.   Then, recently, maybe 1-2 years ago they jumped to $3000, and now for some reason, they are discontinued???   So, really when i said "$3000,"  that was the old "$1500-1800."

Now, on paper, they look great.  But, my opinion is:  You get what you pay for.    As i said, the reman  4.3 that is in the truck now cost $2100 with no core charge.  GREAT VALUE RIGHT???

Well, the thing would never idle right. Really, i couldn't get to stay running unless it stayed above 1200rpm in neutral. i did everything from rebuilding the carb and distributor, to putting a return line in the fuel system etc. etc. etc.

It turns out that some of the valve seats and valves were no good from the start.   So, after about $900----both heads rebuilt, reinstalled, it finally runs good.

So,i don't think the cheaper crate engines are that good.  Not saying that a good engine could not be built cheaply ($3000 and under).  Thus, i agree that the best way may be to find one in a salvage yard and rebuild it----or have someone good locally rebuild it.

Offline philo_beddoe

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Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2022, 05:02:05 PM »
I got mine from summit, VZ installed it, still running fast and smooth. I have not made the slightest adjustment since, paid like $2500.

There is a restoration shop up the road, I,‘ll see what they have in stock.

No? https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/059/7353K5/10002/-1
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 05:16:54 PM by philo_beddoe »
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.  Zechariah 14:1

Offline Shamrock Motors

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Re: Crate Motor/ Small Block
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2022, 02:34:41 PM »
Hello and thanks everyone for your feedback.
I have done a lot of research on the ' Target Master', replacement / crate engines that were once common at Jegs, Summit, GM Dealerships etc. ( P/N GMP-19421178-X). This was a standard replacement small block popular among hot rodders, restorers and
as a replacement engine. I have gotten 4 different answers as to why they are presently unavailable or discontinued. 1. They moved the plant from Mexico to the US and they were too expensive to make. 2. There are not enough raw material and parts to make them.
3. GM can make more money offering the engines with Vortec heads. 4. The applications they fit in (pre 1986  cars and trucks) are
not common enough for it to be worth making them.
 That all being said there are also not a lot of engine rebuilders around this area anymore, (Westchester County, NY), ironically
because replacement engines were so cheap, and those that are are not reliable. I have researched ATX, Jasper and a few others
and what it comes down to is the difference between new and remanufactured, not rebuilt, is maybe $1000.00 give or take. So
for a turn key engine you are looking around $7000.00. Covid, inflation, material shortage and don't forget Putin have made this what it is. Oh and you have to wait a few months to get one of these engines.
Thanks again for everyone's input.