Author Topic: turbo 350 to 700r4  (Read 29263 times)

Offline blazing816

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 08:45:03 AM »
The 700 was a POS when it came out, every year as the complaints came in the factory upgraded it until 87 that was the last upgrade that's why the preferred unit is 87 on up, but if you can pick up an early core for a good price it's not a big deal to upgrade it to the later unit, then there's even more upgrades to make it even stronger. Only difference in the "E" is the valve body, oh and some of the later ones had electric speedometer drive.

What usually goes wrong with the early 700R4?? and is there a way to tell the year on it?? (got mine in a package deal, I believe it is a 87, but do not know).
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1988 Chevy R20 Scottsdale Crew Cab (350/TH400/4.56)

Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 09:24:33 AM »
Well, the weak link is the sunshell but the early ones suffered everything from poor internal lubrication, pressure to hard parts. The ID is on the case on the right.


Offline Big Daddy

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 07:11:49 PM »
What year did they start using computers to shift the trans?  And what locks and unlocks the converter before computers?

Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 07:58:10 PM »
In 93 is when they came out with the "E", the lockup was electric through switches on the valve body, could also hook it up to a toggle switch for manual operation.

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 12:44:38 AM »
well i guess thats what i get for not prof reading. but yes they both are electric speed sensors. meant for that one line about the speed sensor to be up on the 87-93. looking back makes me think what was i thinking lol. but i dont know much about these transmissions this is why a used summit to help prove a point. you cant take a 4l60 rebuild kit and try to use it in a pre-87 700r4. they would have a "universal" kit if this was true. i mean who would want to rebuild a crappy trans with crappy parts if you can just throw the 4l60 parts in and be done. now you can retro-fit the newer parts (4l60) to fit the 700r4 but this is costly and its cheaper just to get a 4l60. this is like getting ticked at the parts store when you ask for a rebuild kit, cause they want to know what year your 350 is and you insist they all are the same just pick one. and yes the bells are a weak link and if your rebuilding one look for one out of a 4x4 it will have a "k" stamped into the bell i believe its about 2 O'clock and its 3" long been awhile since i looked but that means it is thicker to hold up to the abuse of 4x4. also the 30 splines on the tail shaft is better than the 27 splines. think that was pre 84. cant help out with the guts never had one apart to compare the 27 and 30 spline shaft. but the innards (ring-gear to the oil-pump housing)are a problem after the shaft


What year did they start using computers to shift the trans?  And what locks and unlocks the converter before computers?
The 4l60 is the upgraded version of the 700r4. The 4l60e is the electronic controlled shift version of the 4l60
the 4l60e was out in 93 but i think it was only in the trucks post 93 and pre computers torque converter clutch (TCC) lockup function was actuated hydraulically at a set pressure without computer input this was the 83-87 700r4 afaik you cant run a toggle to the tcc on these transmissions because they are hydraulic not electric like the 4l60. you can only run the toggle to the 4l60 which is 87-93. the 4l60e is computer shifted so no bypass, are you seeing why i am saying 4l60 instead of 700r4? this is cause they arnt "the same transmission" they may look similar but most sb look similar. most people look similar but like we all were raised on you cant judge a book by its cover
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 01:00:04 AM by Irish_Alley »
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Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2013, 08:27:51 AM »
Take a couple apart and you'll see they're the same tranny, you can take all the new upgraded stuff and put it into an early one, 4l60 just means it's a later upgraded tranny, the lock up is electric and and work off pressure activated switches on the valve body(same type switch as water or oil), it's solenoid activated and has two wires positive and negative and you can just put a toggle switch to it instead of the pressure switches doing the same thing, I know from experience I have one in my Nova..

This is a lock out solenoid, wires go to pressure switches on the VB and to a plug on the side of the case, it is electrically activated..

« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 08:42:13 AM by 74 C-10 Shorty »

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2013, 11:39:44 PM »
wow what you said is really different from what i said. that plug is off a 4l60 right? what i was saying is you cant just run a toggel switch to the 700r4 and think it will work without retrofitting something. but by time you retrofit everything you can you should of just got a 4l60 
you cant take a 4l60 rebuild kit and try to use it in a pre-87 700r4. they would have a "universal" kit if this was true. i mean who would want to rebuild a crappy trans with crappy parts if you can just throw the 4l60 parts in and be done. now you can retro-fit the newer parts (4l60) to fit the 700r4 but this is costly and its cheaper just to get a 4l60.
afaik you cant run a toggle to the tcc on these transmissions because they are hydraulic not electric like the 4l60. you can only run the toggle to the 4l60 which is 87-93. the 4l60e is computer shifted so no bypass, are you seeing why i am saying 4l60 instead of 700r4? this is cause they arnt "the same transmission" they may look similar but most sb look similar. most people look similar but like we all were raised on you cant judge a book by its cover
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 11:45:00 PM by Irish_Alley »
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Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2013, 11:55:45 PM »
wow what you said is really different from what i said. that plug is off a 4l60 right? what i was saying is you cant just run a toggel switch to the 700r4 and think it will work without retrofitting something. but by time you retrofit everything you can you should of just got a 4l60
You don't understand both trannys are the same, the lockup works the same on both, it's just a solenoid one wire to positive the other to ground with a toggle switch on one wire on/off, if you want it to work automatically leave it hooked up to the pressure switches on the VB, there's no retrofitting anything the lockup is a separate deal.

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2013, 12:17:56 AM »
Art your right i dont understand exactly how the 700 works like i first said in the beginning of the post. but have a ideal and know they arnt the same transmission. some parts maybe the same but they all arnt the same. i mean i love debating with you because im learning more with each post. im hardheaded so if i think im right, i am right lol. but i dont have a problem saying im wrong or have have no ideal what im talking about. but retrofit

1: to furnish (as a computer, airplane, or building) with new or modified parts or equipment not available or considered necessary at the time of manufacture

2: to install (new or modified parts or equipment) in something previously manufactured or constructed

3: to adapt to a new purpose or need : modify <retrofit the story for a new audience>
— ret·ro·fit noun

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retrofit


so tell me again how i dont understand, like i said i have no ideal exactly how they work just a fuzzy picture. what you are describing is 82-87 700r4 right. because afik 88 model the TCC hydraulic lockup port was plugged but you can take a 1st generation valve and let it be automatic lockup and 89+ was completely blocked off. so no lock up hydraulic lock up just toggle and ecm controlled well till the 4l60e came along.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 01:02:37 AM by Irish_Alley »
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Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2013, 08:19:27 AM »
Soo, what you're saying is you could take two TH400's and put a shift kit, 32 element sprag, add clutches and heavy duty input shaft in one and that makes it two different transmissions.. :D As far as the lockup goes that solenoid is there in all of them, now as far as not using the wires on newer ones is true but there's two sides to that story also and I admit I don't understand that one(not yet anyways)but my 91 has the plug in the case which I'm using with only the two wires directly from the solenoid, nothing hooked up to the VB..

Ok, I found a pic of my VB before I tore the tranny down, top right is the lockup solenoid with the two wires coming out of it which goes to the different pressure switches, then follow the wires to the bottom and you can see they go to a plug in the case which has three wires, if you pulled the pan now you would just see the two wires going directly to that plug in the case..

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:34:58 AM by 74 C-10 Shorty »

Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2013, 11:02:53 PM »
Soo, what you're saying is you could take two TH400's and put a shift kit, 32 element sprag, add clutches and heavy duty input shaft in one and that makes it two different transmissions.. :D
to this yes because they arnt built the same may have the same shell, but different personaltys if you would. they will handle power different, the way they shift and how much they can handle. its like saying a c10 and k30 are the same type of truck. since they both have the same shell but they where build for 2 total different reasons.

As far as the lockup goes that solenoid is there in all of them, now as far as not using the wires on newer ones is true but there's two sides to that story also and I admit I don't understand that one(not yet anyways)but my 91 has the plug in the case which I'm using with only the two wires directly from the solenoid, nothing hooked up to the VB..
see and i didnt know it was just a simple as running a toggle switch to the 700r4s'.
but for argument sake
lets leave this to the professionals lol
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_0704_700_r4_transmission/viewall.html
maybe after you read this you can clear up somethings with me also 8)
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ~Sherlock Holmes

Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2013, 08:49:03 AM »
to this yes because they arnt built the same may have the same shell, but different personaltys if you would. they will handle power different, the way they shift and how much they can handle. its like saying a c10 and k30 are the same type of truck. since they both have the same shell but they where build for 2 total different reasons.
So this means if I change the carb and put headers on my 468 I won't have a 468 anymore, LOL...

see and i didnt know it was just a simple as running a toggle switch to the 700r4s'.
I believe that was mentioned a couple of times, LOL..
Quote
but for argument sake
lets leave this to the professionals lol
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_0704_700_r4_transmission/viewall.html
maybe after you read this you can clear up somethings with me also 8)
Well, I sure ain't no professional but we already know this stuff, and I guess somebody really screwed up when they made this diagram, LOL, but seems like you have it all figured out..






Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 11:04:02 PM »
well yes they did. they dont take into effect of the 27 spine output shaft in 700r4s and the bell housing only was removable in i think in the 1996 4l60e and now your chart is saying the 4l70e is the same as a 700r4? about about your 468 well your not changing anything in the 468 to change it from being a 468. you will be adding power but the combustion chamber is still the same. lets say you have a 350 block get the 383 kit and have a machinist put it in. is this still a 350ci? may still be a 350 block buts not a 350 anymore.
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Offline Irish_Alley

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2013, 06:22:34 AM »
art i have to say i took what you where saying about the tcc switch as a grain of salt because you where the same one saying they all are the same, till i found that page i posted above. now i understand how they work and how you can RETRO-FIT them fairly easy to make them work thought there would be more machining to get it to work right.
If you can’t tell yourself the truth, who can you tell it to?~Irish_Alley

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Offline 74 C-10 Shorty

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Re: turbo 350 to 700r4
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2013, 08:31:28 AM »
That's why unless you can get an early one for the "super' good price, it's not worth it better off getting a later one and just freshen it up. I got one early core I thought about building since I got it for nothing, but I think I'm just going tear it down and throw it in the pile for spare parts..