73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: hotrod24 on December 09, 2008, 11:51:26 pm
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well as some of you have herd i have a 383 thats been sitting for about 4 years and its been rained on and stuff but it has been covered up but what would be the first thing i would need to do i wanted to do a whole rebuild.
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Put it on a stand and tear it down for inspection/measurements.
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the first part of a rebuild is to tear down the engine. send the block to get it magnafluxed and/or bored. order parts depending on how much bored. Send heads out for valve/seals. Get all parts back at about the same time and have fun with a toque wrench. Nuttin to it, huh?
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that is what i thought i just did not know if it was worth do it because it has sit in the weather for so long
and it is pretty corroded but i will tear it down and see what i have thanks
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where would be the best place to get 383 parts i know there is jegs and summit and gm performance parts would that be it?
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all the above
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well i was down there so i thought i would snap a couple of pics i wish i would have not took the carb off
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0237.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0235.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0236.jpg)
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believe or not but this motor sounded goooood
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That doesn't look too bad - I've seen junk yard motors much worse than that brought back to life ;D
I would use a new intake though
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yea i am going for a edelbrock intake
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You can clean all of that up. Send your parts to the machine shop for a hot tank and bead blast the intake.
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cool thanks vile i hope it all turn good
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i think it takes a 400 crank to make a 350 a 383 so could i make this 383 a 396 some how?
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i think it takes a 400 crank to make a 350 a 383
A 400 c.i. Crank and a matching 400 c.i. flex plate/flywheel. There is also a minor thing about the piston rods needing milling or shaved slightly for clearance. They sell these complete sets from summit or jeg's.
(http://www.delbridge.net/seasonsg2.gif)
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i think it takes a 400 crank to make a 350 a 383
A 400 c.i. Crank and a matching 400 c.i. flex plate/flywheel. There is also a minor thing about the piston rods needing milling or shaved slightly for clearance. They sell these complete sets from summit or jeg's.
(http://www.delbridge.net/seasonsg2.gif)
Clearance the block for the rods and use a small base circle cam
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If the engine was bored .060 over you would have 388 CID
(½ bore)² x π x stroke x # of cylinders = CID
example 4.030 bore ÷ 2 = 2.015 to the second power = 2.015 x 2.015 = 4.060225
4.060225 x 3.14 (pi) = 12.749106
12.749106 x stroke 3.75 = 47.809147
47.809147 x 8 cylinders = 382.47317
383 CID
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i know it is suppost to be a 383 from a 350 but i dont know what it was bored so i am just going to tear it down and see what the shop thinks because i have no idea ;D
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standard bore is 4"
typical oversizes are .030", .040", .060"
.030" = 383 with 3.75 stroke
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so could i build a 396?
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so could i build a 396?
396 is a big block 383 is a small block
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thats what i thought just giving it try so how high could i go?
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at .060 it would be (I think) a 388
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ok i will just wait and stick with the 383 and then put a big block in a 2wd drive
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Both 3.875" and 4" stroke cranks are available for the SBC. With a 4.03" bore they would give you 395 cid and 408 cid, respectively. But, I believe, at this level, stroker-profiled cap-screw type rods and a small-base circle cam become mandatory for clearance. Also, rod/stroke ratios become quite low (for an SBC) with these strokes, which really doesn't mean much for a mild street engine other than marginally increased piston side-loading and bore wear.
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what is the differents in a 350 and 383 what parts would i need for the 383?
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what is the differents in a 350 and 383 what parts would i need for the 383?
350 has 4.000 piston's 383 has 4.030 pistons
350 has a 350 crank
383 has a 400 crank
Think that about covers it. Some internal work needs to be done for rod clearance too
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ok i was just wanting to know because i am going to get a rebuild book and i did not know if i should get it for a 350 or a 383
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It's the same thing. you may have to clearance grind the connecting rods and everything will be a test fit assembly. Once you have it all together you may want to rip it all apart and have everything balanced. If you're gonna build a 383 do it right or don't do it at all imo
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i agree vile if you are not going to do something right the first time dont do it at all
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since a 383 stroker uses a 400 ci crank, the flywheel/flex plate will have to be for a 400 crank, and the harmonic balancer, since that goes with the crank.
www.delbridge.net/install
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thanks man very nice
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hey guys is this a good cam
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/12-600-8/10002/-1
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Read this article for good advice on selecting a cam. Be the Camshaft Expert (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0607phr_camshaft_basics/index.html) Normally I wouldn't just recommend any article from a major magazine, but in this case it is written by David Vizard, who is an expert on the subject of building hi-perf SBC's.
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David Vizard is the guy who wrote the book on SBC rebuilds, literally.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_adv_b/?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&field-keywords=&field-author=david+vizard&field-title=&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&url=&field-feature_browse-bin=&field-binding_browse-bin=&field-subject=&field-language=&field-dateop=&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=relevancerank&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=0&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_adv_b/?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&field-keywords=&field-author=david+vizard&field-title=&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&url=&field-feature_browse-bin=&field-binding_browse-bin=&field-subject=&field-language=&field-dateop=&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=relevancerank&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=0&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=0)
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thanks guys
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how big it a 224 roller camshaft
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Huh?
According to my calculator, Comp Cams 280 Magnum hyd roller #12-430-8 would have 60° of overlap at 0.006", based on it's 280° seat duration and 110° LCA. If you had those same lobes ground on a 108° LCA the overlap would go up to 64°. If you ground them on the more 383-appropriate LCA of 106° it would be 68°. As you can see for every 2° you tighten up the LCA, the overlap goes up 4°. Does this help?
If I were going to build a 383 with 68° of overlap at 0.006" it would have at least 9.5:1 CR (10:1 would be more like it) and probably 2000-2500 stall. I imagine this motor as very healthy, but very streetable. But, I've never built an engine, only dreamed of it ever since reading DV's books, LOL.
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i am new at this and i have been reading about David Vizard but have not got that far could can you explain this to me in another way so i can understand
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Did you read the article? This diagram (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0607phr_camshaft_basics/photo_05.html) explains all the relevant attributes of cam timing. Note that duration (items 3 & 4) are offered by cam companies as duration at 0.05" (the degrees between the point where the cam first reaches 0.05" of lobe lift until the point where it falls back to 0.05") or as advertised (seat) duration (this is where every cam company seems to differ - Comp measures this at 0.006", Crane at 0.004", Isky at 0.007", and so on). I've noticed that DV tends to use Comp Cams and uses duration @ 0.006" as his basis for determining overlap (item 5).
So after discovering, with this diagram (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0607phr_camshaft_basics/photo_11.html), that your 383 will tend to like about a 106 LCA (item 6). You now determine how much overlap you want with this diagram (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0607phr_camshaft_basics/photo_07.html) (note compression ratio requirements go up as you work your way up the scale - I use a dynamic compression ratio calculator and try to achieve 7.5:1-8:1 DCR). Then you determine the seat duration (at 0.006") you are looking for by using the formula ( ( degrees of overlap / 2 ) + LCA ) x 2. From there, you seek as much lift as possible from a cam with that duration. In the article, DV admits that this is not a perfect method (for example, it doesn't take into account that overlap is a not a single-dimensional attribute, it has an area - the overlap triangle), but it will get better results than selecting a cam based on duration first and all else second.
I should also mention that when I said grind it on a 108 LCA or 106 LCA, I meant have it ground, as in custom cam. Most off-the-shelf cams out there today are ground on 110 or 112 LCA. Also we are dealing with single pattern cams here. DV recommends them as the best choice, in most instances, for naturally-aspirated street engines.
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ok i am starting to understand lol i just need to do a little more home work on this. do you need to be a math wis to do this?
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LOL. No. Keep in mind, this is for those who want to come as close as reasonably possible to optimal cam specs. If 20 or so lb/ft of torque isn't that important to you don't worry about it. I'm gonna try it as soon as I get an opportunity to build my first engine, because I have faith that DV really knows what he's talking about. If you want a good source for info on building a Hi-perf SBC in general buy this book (http://www.amazon.com/Build-Performance-Blocks-Budget-Design/dp/1884089348/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232047582&sr=8-1). I've read it cover to cover several times and all I can say, is it's the best $14 I've ever spent.
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what should i have the machine shop do if i want to rebuild it myself? because they wanted $2500 for cleaning and some other stuff?
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what should i have the machine shop do if i want to rebuild it myself? because they wanted $2500 for cleaning and some other stuff?
Hot tank
Magnaflux
Bored if needed
allign hone if needed
recondition rods - if you aren't buying new ones
mount new pistons
Balance crank - if needed
etc.
You might do some shopping around for machine shops. Seems a bit steep to me.
I had the whole shabang done for my 350. They even ordered my rebuild kit from EPW, and sold me a new crank and heads for $1500.
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yea that sounds about right of what they said i might have to look to finding another one
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Shop around
Just had a block hot tanked , bored .030 over, new cam bearings , new freeze plugs, new bolts put in the rods and new piston put on the rods for 400. Hopefully Saturday I will have time to pick it up. Btw did you tell the machine shop it would be already disassembled ?
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yea i told them i would tear it down and bring it in and i ask how much it was and they told me that
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yea i told them i would tear it down and bring it in and i ask how much it was and they told me that
Hopefully there is more than one machine shop in your area
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That seems very steep, shop around and be very clear with what you want. I'd buy and read that book I recommended before continuing. He offers alot of advice on machining the block, what's needed and what's not and where there's some hidden power.
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yea i hope there is but yea i am going to buy that book and get some more info on this
thanks
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whats up guys well i have been working my butt off on the bank so i can have a nice place to work on the truck anyway the other day while i was taking a brake i took one of the valve covers off and there was some light rust on the inside of the head but i know it will become more then light so i was thinking maybe take the heads off and tear it down or just cover it up or put some rust remover on it?
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The rust will be taken care of when the parts are tanked. Just take the covers off and pour some oil on it and close it back up. Don't tear it down until right before you take it to the machine shop unless your going to do something specific like check condition of important parts.
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thanks the rockers and rods have a little rust on them the oil should help
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hey whats up well i got my 383 crank to turn with a bracker bar lol anyway i want to try and get to turn over but first i need to put a carb on it and change the spark plugs and try and get the distributor working some how and change spark plug wires and it should start maybe so how do would i do this?
please help
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Oh Boy ;)
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yea i know its a big one lol i know how to change everything its just the wiring and doing it with the motor out of the truck
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ok first thing how do i test my starter to see if it is working like it should?
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The Jeep I was working on had been sitting in a field with the hood open for several years, then sat in my neighbor's yard for a few months. He let his goats and chickens poop all in and over it. There was poop in the motor and tons of berry seeds and leaves in the intake. I asked around and everybody told me to just clean what I could and then run it and change the oil a few times. It looked about like yours did in the pics, but after blowing out the intake trash, it ran pretty good.
I'm not sure how to test the starter though. Good luck with it man.
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yea it has been sitting for about hmm 6 years but it run very well when it was in my cousins blazer so i am going to tune it up change the oil a few times like you said and see how it does along with a cylinder leakage test and that should do it and this is how it sits now not much has changed tho
thanks for the reply
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0455.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0456.jpg)
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ok in the middle of getting ready to take the cab off and waiting on some of my buddys i thought i would check the 383 out so i took the intake and valve covers off. well i dont think it is that a bad a little rust on the push rods and rockers only thing that has alot of rust is the heads but i think when i start it up that will be taken care of i hope.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0459.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0465.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0472.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0468.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0467.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0460.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0474.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0469.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0475.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0476.jpg)
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So what do yall think? good or bad?
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Take it the rest of the way down and rebuild it. The pics don't show the valves, but I'd say they are a mess also. The water jackets looked plugged and full of rust. Just bite the bullet and fix it right the first time.
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yea i know you are right but i was trying lol but i am going to take the heads off and see how bad it is. i am sure it want be good.
thanks for the reply
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If you really want to use it, take it inside, disassemble it and get the parts tanked at a machine shop that doesn't have such ridiculous prices.
You won't even be certain it has the stroker crank and rods in it until you take it apart. I looks like you had all stock heads and valvetrain, with an older holley intake and some budget longtubes, so who knows.
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yea have come down to just rebuilding it, but i have been busy with the cab and frame so i have not had time to take the heads off but i have been looking in to a engine stand so i can check it out better and i think you are right about the heads but it had a elder brock carb on it.
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ok well i was thinking on the two engines i have that i thought was a 350 and a 383 the 350 is on my 78 frame and the 383 is on the ground now i was told about the 350 that it maybe a 305 but i did not pay that any attention so i checked the casting numbers 14093627 well it is a 305 >:( sucks it says that it is a 87-94 engine but i new that because of the center bolt heads so i dont know what to do with the 305 i was going to put it in my 78 grand prix but i dont know now anyway on to the 383 that was suppost to be a 350 bored out to a 383 well i found 3 numbers for it 3970010 all the same number and it blew my mind that it could be a 302,327,350 it is prob the 350 but who knows i need to know if there is a way on finding out which one it is?
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This is what I came up with:
yrs. size HP levels
3970010 68 - 79 350 & 327 145-375 2&4-Bolt mains/Truck/Hi Perf
Hope this helps a little...
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so its a 350?
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well i finally borrowed a cherry picker to do a few things and move my motors well the 383 just started pouring water when i picked it up out the back as you can see in the pics there is no freeze plugs there so i guess thats where it was coming from and you can look and see it is rusting pretty bad
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0529.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0532.jpg)
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so its a 350?
Maybe not, a 383 is a 350 block with a 400 crank. I haven't read through this thread in a while, but I think I'd plan on tearing that down, if nothing else just to verify that it's not a ball of rust internally.
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yea i plane on tearing it down i just dont know if i should do it where it is or get a engine stand i found some on ebay at a good price so i might just do that
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A stand would help. Check Craigslist or similar for a used one. A clean place to work would help also. How are you making out with your slab?
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yea speaking of clean i am trying to do that now lol but the slab i am working on that also i just got to get this frame tore down and out of the way i thought it would be much easyer to just tear it on down and move it peace by peace so i can build a form but i think it will be later in the year i hope it is not to cold lol
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well the 383 is going to be in peace by the end of the week i have talked to a few people and they said oh my i bet that thing is no good so i am going to see with a stand or without
wish me the best
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Good luck hotrod. Just get a piece of plastic to keep it covered and you'll do fine.
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Good luck, like ccz145a said cover it well. My 350 spent winter and spring under a pine tree. When I put it up, I used tape to try to plug holes keeping debris to a minimum.
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well my luck was not so good the block inside of the number two pistion was crack so no more 383 i dont know what to do all i got is a 305 and i am not rebuilding that no way so the only thing is maybe getting a 350 or a 400 small block but it must have froze and busted over the 7 years it was sitting or it was already like that who knows.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0553.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/74chevy/SANY0554.jpg)
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That'll buff out :o I hope it looks worse in the pics than it really is.
Maybe a used 350 from somewhere (craigslist, newspaper, friend). How's the rest? Anything salvageable?
At least now your possibilities for a powerplant have opened up.
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That looks very skirt shaped... This was obviously a budget build!
Is the crank still good?
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no, I am sorry to say that it looks worse than on picture. it is bad, I could not believe it, I mean wow. I hope I can find a good 350 block to start with or a good engine, I just cant believe this has happened. I want a 400 small block along with a th400, that should be a good set up, but the crank seems to be good. The cam and pistons are, but the rest of it is not any good, also besides the cracked block it looked like it was going to spin a bearing and the water that was coming out of it >:( there was no oil just water
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Say that again.... ???
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yea the rust inside the intake ports on the head was the first clue that water had gotten inside the engine, ANYTHING stored outside for more than a couple of weeks should really be torn down and inspected. I could tell from the first pic things where gonna be bad, plus i don't see any clearanceing on the bottom of the cyl area of the block, so I'm pretty sure its just a reg 350.
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yea and you are right i was told it was a 383 but wrong its a 350 2 bolt
yea the rust inside the intake ports on the head was the first clue that water had gotten inside the engine, ANYTHING stored outside for more than a couple of weeks should really be torn down and inspected. I could tell from the first pic things where gonna be bad, plus i don't see any clearanceing on the bottom of the cyl area of the block, so I'm pretty sure its just a reg 350.
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you know you can't go by the casting numbers to figure out if its a 383 right?
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yea i do, i checked the crank and it said it was for a 305 or 350, not 400. well i was confused on 1 of the cranks numbers, but anyways it is ethier 3832442 or 3932442, i found the 393 but i dont know on the other.
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how can i find out what the block was bore, and what would it say on the pistions if it was bore 40 or 60
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Some calipers would tell you. It'd be like 4.030 for .030 or 4.040 for .040 and so forth. The pistons may not say anything, sometimes they don't. My 350 block I thought was fresh, was already at .040 over! The pistons looked factory and had no markings to indicate otherwise.
Don't feel too bad, I used to mess with Honda CB750 motorcycles in a previous life. Everybody who's trying to sell it has it with the "bigbore 836 kit" in it. Complete horsehockey. Just like every 350 for sale has got to be the 383. ::)
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yea all i think i could find was a part number
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Google the part #, you may get a hit.
On mine it was the opposite of TexasRed, I was told it was .030 over but it didn't seem to be when I measured it.
... Just like every 350 for sale has got to be the 383. ::)
Or a 'vette motor. ;)
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hey i am cleaning up around the carport and i was wondering if i should keep the pistons and all because i dont know if i am getting another small block or big block.
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Dusty,
throw it all out and start fresh, no need of using USED parts in a good motor. Just get rid of the misery and get rid of it all and start anew.. If you keep anything keep the top end(heads, intake ,distributor, and just junk the rest..
thanks
pat
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I would junk the pistons too.