73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: Stewart G Griffin on January 05, 2009, 03:31:10 pm
-
Is there anyway to prevent the torque converter from locking up?
The trans is a TH-350C.
-
Yes. Why?
-
sure, cut the wire on the left side of the body. Or just unplug it. I like my lockup conversion on my 79 big 10.
-
This would go against your quest for maximum mpg. Is it locking up too soon?
-
1) i was hoping (implying) that the question was more of an open-ended one.
2) It does seem to go against my previous thinking(s). But, right now, i'm just trying to simplify things as much as possible----a "C-10 simplex," if you will. The purpose of this is to make things as simple as possible and as such will make maintenance, diagnoisis, and repair as easy and efficient as possible.
My latest problem(see other post) has spanned almost a month, with 4 pages and still not solved. My new strategy would hope to prevent this. i do not have enough bread to buy a newer car outright right now. i have, of course, another car. So i'm covered there. But that one could go at any time as well as it is a 90. Then, i wouldn't have any transportation. And, EFI and coilpack ignitions are just as complex if not more complex than non-computerized carbs and HEI distributors. ( i will discuss why i feel this way and how i reached this conclusion in another thread)
i can ride my bike to one job as it's only 9 miles away, but the other one is 27 miles away and that would be out of the question. The bus doesn't go out that far.
So, what i need is maximum simplicity.
This is what i've come up with so far:
i'm thinking along the lines of:
74-83ish camaro or nova, chevelle, etc. Or convert the truck over into a "C-10 simplex"
No thermosat---just use a restriction washer
No emmissions equipment----pcv and vacuum advance to distributor so only 2 vacuum hoses.
HEI---pretty dependable if purchased new or at least is 100% GM
As far as carbs, a 2GC is probably simplier than a quadrajet, but i'm learning and becoming more familiarized with quadrajets, so they are simple enough to fit the criteria. With a carbed fuel system, we have a tank, the line, the pump and the carb and that's it----no relays, high pressure pumps, sensors, or other mysterious bullcrap.
Trans should be a TH-350 with only 2 cooling lines to the radiator and a vaccum modulator line to the intake manifold. There is, of course, a kickdown cable, but that usually never fails and even if it does, you can switch down gears manually.
-
The th350 or th350c are pretty dang simple. If the lock up part intimidates you (for whatever reason) as I stated earlier, just unplug it. There is only one electrical plug on the driver's side of the tranny body, it either has 4 wires, or 2 wires going to it. If you remove the plulg, I'd tape up the area so as not to get dirt/debris in it and tape the plug too.
For a stock lock up feature to work correctly, you do have a type of distributor switch, a vacuum switch (i think) and a brake switch. So that if any of these processes are being utilized ie: stomping on the gas (distr) or braking, the lock up feature is automatically bypassed.
-
I can understand the desire to remove all the emissions equipment and the miles of vacuum lines, but as for everthing else, I'd leave it alone unless it's definitely broken. Focus on solving the problem you have, rather than going on a "witchhunt" for anything that has more than one moving part. Buying another older vehicle will likely just give you a new project with new problems and a 2nd gen F-body wouldn't be my first choice for DD. Believe me I know how frustrating it can be diagnosing problems, but keep trying.
-
Stewart, why don't you just pimp out a lawn mower and put a canopy on it?
-
why don't you just pimp out a lawn mower and put a canopy on it?
I don't know about that. It may have a lock up converter on it too! Or, it is the devil trying to find the distributor on a Briggs and Stratton. The coil pack can be tricky on those puppies.
-
You all can keep joking, but i believe my way is the wave of the future----we must pursue simplicity!
There are at least 3 things that are bringing stress to people's lives. They are:
1) The economy situation.
2) cars/transportation; If you choose to do the popular route of buying a new car every 5-10 years and getting it serviced by the dealer, then you are, perhaps very much so, needlessly spending thousands and thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of dollars. If you would like to keep driving what you have and/or buy used and try to fix it yourself, but can't, then this can bring lots of stress and worry to your life---my strategy of simplicity can solve this.
3) Fixation on weight/ weight loss. Fortunately, i don't have to worry about this (yet?). Too much unhappiness exists because of perceptions of weight.
-
There are at least 3 things that are bringing stress to people's lives. They are:
Didn't mean to crack on ya, but, sometimes, OK, all the times, I see the humor in things.
The three things you mention;
1. the economy. Solution: get a job in law enforcement. The tougher the times get, the more job security for us.
2. cars and transportation. I think we on this site pretty well have this topic licked. We drive 30 yr old trucks that are easier to work on than trying to bake banana nut bread. I tried this once, and forgot the bananas and nuts. ;D
3. Fixation on weight... you mention " Too much unhappiness exists because of perceptions of weight." I think you are a little off base there. It's not unhappiness due to perceptions of weight. It is unhappiness due to one thinking perceptions of weight matters.
Solution: Eat what you want and be jolly, especially after you marry, because face it, the bar scene just don't matter any more. Where's my beer?
-
PT.2
i know it's real easy to get a decent rebuilt/remanufactured regular TH-350 trans if yours goes out---TCI, ATI, jeg's, summit etc for about $600.
But what if you have a TH-350C? Where are good sources for decent Th-350C's?
-
If the TH350C goes out. eliminate it and get the TH350.
-
The simplest vehicle I ever owned was a 65 Chevy C-10. 1 fan belt, no power anything, straight 6 with a 1 bbl carb, 3 on the tree. I put a later model HEI and I couldn't have gotten any simpler and it got about 15 mpg...
-
no matter what you do these trucks simply will not get great gas mileage
-
PT.2
Can a non-lockup converter be used in a TH-350C?
-
PT.2
Can a non-lockup converter be used in a TH-350C?
No.
-
You can control the TCC by installing a toggle switch. I did this for my 700R4. For some reason, it locks up as early as 37 mph in fourth gear, under light throttle. My engine really can't tolerate any load at this speed and rpm (about 1150). So I flip the switch to open the circuit whenever I get stuck in traffic, forcing my TCC to remain disengaged, then flip it back when I'm cruising again.
Note: This is really just a band-aid fix. The real issue I'll address at a later time, is why it engages so soon. It should engage at about 45 (at which speed my engine seems to operate fine with the TCC locked).
-
i'm not actually trying to prevent lockup so much as i want to try other converters and i thought(perhaps mistakenly so) that there are no hi-po lockup converters.
So perhaps i need to re-phrase the question:
a) Are there any hi-stall converters that also lockup and/or compatable with the TH-350C?
b) Is there/are there ways to have a stock converter run near stall speed for long periods of time without cooking or damaging the converter? For example at a traffic light.
Actually, this is stupid. What i'm thinking is that since i got my other problem to the point where the engine WILL run ok at rpms above 800, i would just for now since i can't seem to solve the problem, just raise the idle to 800 or so and run it like that for now----until i manage to solve the problem. Hence, my asking about stall speeds and whatnot.
Maybe i'm just screwed and should just bite the bullet and buy a more recent vehicle for transportation. (my cavalier is starting to act a little funny and the check engine light came on for a while today).
-
What is it doing?
-
Well, nothing really; It's just vibrating real bad at idle. And then, today, the check engine light came on for about 15-30 secs and then went out. So, i feel the prudent thing to do is to treat this car as if it could stop running at any time.
The real problem is if it stops running, i'm not sure how to fix it and i'm not 100% sure if anyone else can either. The truck i don't want to drive until i take care of it's problem.
i'm thinking of getting a 96 or newer car this way if it breaks, i can just take it to the dealer---no more complex, neurotic, frustrating attempts at trying to fix it myself.
i can technically afford a newer car, but my hours at both of my jobs got cut big time (sound familiar?) so money is tight. And i rather not operate tightly.
So now you can see my real problem.
-
Kinda off topic but if you do decide to get a new car, i would go with a newer model toyota celica. It's the one i will be buying when i get a gas saver. This car would go a long way towards your MPG quest. I have done much research, and so far it would seem to be the best option for non-hybrids. It gets around 41 MPG highway, and 35 city. Of course there are others like this such as the volkswagon diesel car, but they cost to much. The Celica is the "best bang for the buck". You can get a 2000-2005 year celica from $5k-$10k. I would go for the '05 if possible as it would have the most revisions done to the vehicle if there was anything that needed revised. Not to mention that even as a newer maximum efficiency 4 banger, there are still things that can be done to improve MPG a little further. If you pulled out the whole bag of tricks you could probly get one up to around 44 MPG. That's far greater than anything you could ever hope to achieve with this older stuff. And probably a lot less of a headache.
-
Well who owns one of these trucks for good fuel mileage? You should see the stuff the leading manufacturers have done to the ice to make them fuel efficient. As far as simplicity goes you can't get much easier than a chevy cavalier. You don't need to take it to the dealer to get it fixed. Does it only vibrate at idle? Does it have to be in gear?
-
1) Yes, we do tend to get off topic in my posts; i tend to go off on tangents and tend to make mountains out hills etc.
a) i don't believe that a person has to go hondayota etc. for good mpg; My cavalier gets 32 consistently. If anyone digs toyota, then that is fine as they do make good cars.
2) Yes, it only vibrates at idle in and out of gear. i did the paper clip thing and it flashed a code 24 and the service manual is saying faulty park/neutral switch. If this does not cause the car to stop running, i'm not worried about it. If, however, it prevents the car from starting, then i am worried about it. i noticed that when i push the stick foward as far as i can (i'm not pressing the button in on the gear selector) without actually going into reverse then the vibration stops.
-
TCC pt. 3
Next question, can a 200R4 be operated without a) the computer, b) without lockup feature or c) with the lockup feature but without any computer intervention as in the case of Mr. Horizon's 700 if, in fact, that is the case, which leads me to the next question:
2) Does the 700 trans need a computer to operate?
-
Get a Manual transmission then no worries :) My Cavalier gets (havent verified) 38 hwy 32 city according to the sticker.
I can not wait till I get my truck done so I wont have to use the gas friendly car for my DD :)
-
Both the 700R4 and 200R4 transmissions use a TV (throttle valve) cable to communicate with the engine. Neither use a computer to shift. On the TBI vehicles with 700R4s, the TCC lockup was controlled by the ECM, but this can be retrofitted back to older non-electronic style.
-
1) yes, i actually am considering using a manual, but after you get beyond the lockup and the TV cable, auto's really aren't that complicated assuming they don't internally have a problem; In that case, they are very complicated. My solution would be to replace the trans. We can do this cheaply and easily in the case of the TH-350. The others, i'm not so sure. i was asking about the 700 and 200R4 because some of the vehicles i'm seeing for sale have these.
2) Basically what i'm trying to do, if i go this route, is to have my next vehicle as simple as possible with no frills whatsover. i'm sort of like the Mr./(Ms.) Garrison/Woody Allen of cars and i'm sick of getting stressed out about maintenance and repair.
There are at least two possible solutions to this dilema:
1) To buy a brand new, or recent (within 5 models years) car/and/or get a 96 or newer car because they have OBD2. And then, if there are any problems simply take it to the dealer. Simple and no stress.
2) To get a used RWD Gm car/truck----73 up to about 87-90ish and take out (if so equipped) ALL the electronics and emmission controls whatsoever. Actually, it would be even better if the car is stripped without a drivetrain; This way, i can completely re-wire it myself and add whatever drivetrain i want--in this case, i feel the simpliest way to go would be SBC and TH-350.
As i learn more, i can add more convience items such as lockup feature, electric choke etc.
-
How much more of no frills is a manual ? If your tach is working (mine broke 20k ago) you can upshift to your hearts content only thing you need to worry about is the clutch.. Lot less go wrong with a stick compared to a automatic. My cavalier is a 04 so its in your time frame..
-
If you want no frills, might I recommend a bicycle?
-
If you want no frills, might I recommend a bicycle?
If you are going to go there why not just a cheap pair of sneakers :D
-
It's funny you mention that because i did more research last night and i found that in conjunction with the train and bus lines we have here, i can actually get to my other job which is 27 miles away with the help of a bike. And i'm actually going to put that in place as a backup plan.
So actually, i can survive without a car, technically. It's just that i feel i need a car for other things-visiting friends, anything else i would need to do etc.
-
I would love to walk/ride a bike to work. The train is 14 to 15 miles from the house (and on MARC it has to be foldable)
-
Yeah, i'm definitely getting a foldable and will use MARC as part of the plan. i know metro allows a regular bike on the trains but that's only during non-rush hours, so that won't fly with me.
PT.4
1)Will changing the idle speed to 800,900, or even 1000 be harmful to the torque converter?
a) And, if so, would using a heavy duty transmission cooler remedy this?
-
We're talking about the truck again, right? Do you know that your problem is rpm related? It could be dependent on the throttle position instead. Raise your idle speed to find out. I really don't think that raising your idle speed to 1000 rpm will hurt anything other than gas mileage.
The point of my last comment was that all automobiles are technically complex machines. True, some are more complex than others, but they will all require repair at one point or another.