73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: Kusto on March 21, 2009, 12:18:00 am
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I have a set of 1.94 Camel Hump heads from 1967 327 engine. I am thinking of getting these machined out to 2.02's and using them on a freshly built 350. I will be running a Holley 650cfm carb and an air gap intake with an additional 2" throttle body spacer. This setup will be pushing a fresh built TH 400 transmission with extra clutches, shift kit and other aftermarket internals. The truck is a 1948 Ford on a 74 Chevy 1/2 ton chassis that has been shortened to fit this application. It will be a cruiser and just be-bopping around town and roasting the tires at the lights. I want to get as much low end torque as possible and am not really interested in top speed. Any suggestions on cams and torque converter specs would be greatly appreciated?
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We need more details. What size tires are you running? What's the rear end final drive ratio? What's the combustion chamber volume? Give more detail on the engine and it's implements.
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Vile - I think he want us to tell him what parameters are best for just roasting the tires.
Kusto - A line lock and/or trans brake would help with roasting tires too.
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Hey guys, I do understand that you require some additional detail. Here is where I'm at right now.
I just purchased a freshly rebuilt 350 engine from out of town, It will arrive Tuesday next week. I purchased it from a polish gentleman that had a engine shop build it for him for use in a street rod application, 2 years ago, he gave up on his project for financial reasons and sold the rod for parts and kept the engine and transmission. Since then he does not recall the exact parts that were used in the engine, but what he does know that it was better than stock on all parts.....I need to do a little home work and see what is actually in the engine. Also it has never been fired and rockers have not been set. I will provide some additional detail as soon as it arrives and I get a chance to look it over. It comes with a 700R4 AOD trans that has been serviced and shift kit installed, but I don't need OD so will be selling it.
The question I have is if it is worthwhile getting my camel hump 1.94 heads converted to 2.02 for this application and is there any way I can determine what cam is already in the engine without removing it? Is there a number stamped on the face where the timing gear is mounted?
As previously indicated I am looking for low end torque rather than top end speed. Since the truck is lowered 5" I had to go with ceramic coated shorty headers (Camaro), I understand that this is counter productive for low end torque but no room for full length headers. I also will be swapping out the HEI distributor with a MSD pro billet distributor with blaster 2 coil and MSD plug wires.
I will also be port matching the intake with the heads. The intake is a high rise airgap and may also be adding a a 2" TB spacer for additional atomization of the fuel. I will be using and electric fuel pump with pressure regulator for optimum fuel delivery.
As for wheels and tires, I am going to be checking out what I can fit under the fenders with appropriate back spacing/off set. Will likely be 17" rims and low profile tires (not sure yet) . I will provide wheel info as soon as I can determine what I will be running.
Please let me know what additional information you may require and I will try and get it for you. I will be running the numbers on the engine and heads as soon as it arrives on Tuesday. Anything I should watch out for?
And yes I know a line lock is a must....
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Combustion chamber volume, I'm guessing 64cc but not 100% sure.
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well like you said you don't know what is on the motor as it sits right now. Could be better heads already on it. If they are stock smog heads then absolutely put the work into the double humps. Don't forget to have them ported and polished since that is what does seperate them from other stock heads really.
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Vile - I think he want us to tell him what parameters are best for just roasting the tires.
Kusto - A line lock and/or trans brake would help with roasting tires too.
Russ130, his post does not state "I want parameters for just roasting tires" Nor is there such parameters except for saying build as much overkill as possible. If he wants the best advice from us experienced builders we need as much detail as possible.
Now are you on a tight budget? The camel hump heads were the vortec heads of their day but are nothing special with todays technology and may not be worth pumping $$ into. I have a set of 2.02 Camel humps wasting away as they've been surpassed by better and better heads that seem to fall in my lap. To determine lobe lift you can use a dial indicator affixed to the back of the rocker on the intake and exhaust. Multiply the lift by the rocker ratio (ex. .300 lobe lift x 1.5 rocker ratio = .450 valve lift etc). If you already have the 700R4 ready to go there's nothing wrong with that just build more gear into the rear end. What gears are back there now? Are you planning to swap the cam? If so I'd invest in a roller cam retrofit if you can afford it. Let us know and post some pix of your project too.
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It looks to me your real question is "Should I spend the money to go from 1.94 to 2.02 valves", is this correct? If so, no. Back to Vile's "Were good heads, but now...". If you want to use them fine, get a good valve job done & be done with it. Assuming that you have 76cc chambers now, you will raise your compression some (which most likely you could use). When the machine shop says "They need guides, seats, a couple valves, surfaced, ect. resort back to Vile's "Were good heads, but now...".
On a side note, if they are '67 heads, they will not have the front bolt holes, which will lead to alternator bracket changing plans. The truth is, try to sell them to someone who wants/needs them for a "period correct" vehicle ('60's hot rod or old streetrod built to look like it was built in the '60's) & get yourself a set of newer heads. My Two cents, Lorne
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Look into RHS for heads they are really nice, avail in 2 different cc sizes and are very cost efficient.
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Just trying to keep costs down. I can get them converted to 2.02s for $600.00 new valves and guides, etc.
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600 bucks would get you a set of Vortecs. will have to add the proper intake manifold but they will provide more power than unported 2.02 humpers. *However*. some 2.02 Camel humps, good compression ratio, decent cam, and rear gear will provide a lot of tire smoke. Just gotta know whats in the motor.
Derek
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600 bucks would get you a set of Vortecs. will have to add the proper intake manifold but they will provide more power than unported 2.02 humpers. *However*. some 2.02 Camel humps, good compression ratio, decent cam, and rear gear will provide a lot of tire smoke. Just gotta know whats in the motor.
Derek
Well Derek, if you can find me a set delivered here in Alberta Canada for that price I'll take them and give you a finders fee.......Is there a Vortec head that is better or worse that the other?
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here ya go:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12558060&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12558060&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku)
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24756 (http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24756)
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12529093&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12529093&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku)
now about that finders fee ;D
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Once I run the numbers on the current engine set up, I then will report what it is I have, but it'd be funny if the heads were already Vortec......
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here ya go:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12558060&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12558060&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku)
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24756 (http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24756)
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12529093&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12529093&N=700+400129+4294867081+115&autoview=sku)
now about that finders fee ;D
Nice try, but the heads are from the US and range from 279.99 to 299.95 each plus shipping, duty and exchange so I'd still likely be looking at close to or over $1000.00......then theres the vortec intake issue?
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(http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/beer-toast.gif)
Your finders fee......
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Try your local chevy dealer go to parts dept. get a gm performance parts catalog if u still want to try the vortec may save alittle or not?
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If you have any junk yard they should be easy to snatch off of a newer model chevy 350.
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Where in Alberta are you? I'm just outside of sherwood park and theres a few places in Edmonton that have decent priced stuff. JBs has aluminum heads on sale occasionally for a good price but you can sometimes find good deals elsewhere.
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I am located in Grande Prairie, Alberta. The engine just arrived and got the following numbers.
Block Casting # 3970010 - a quick search found that it was cast between 69-79 (BJ - Big Journal?) 2 or 4 bolt main 185-370Hp depending on application.
Heads # 462624 - 79-85, 1.94 intake and 1.5 exhaust, 76cc chamber - used on 350 and 400 sb
Intake # 14014440 - ??
pulled a couple of plugs and it appears that the pistons are domed with dishes for valve clearence?
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Appears to be a regular mid-late '70's 350, should be good for a start. If the pistons have been indeed replaced with domed ones, you will want to be careful with the head chamber size (your double hump or Vortec's will be too small). You will quickly have an engine that won't like pump gas. Sounds like an "Old school" build..."You need domed pistons to get the compression up", the builder was most likely over 50 or was being mentored by someone over 50, built about 10 years ago. Lorne
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domed with valve relief? If they were domed how would you see both reliefs? Might wanna look again just to be sure
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I used a Rigid camera that has a light and uses fibre optics to transmit the image to a screen on the tool. Yes I could see both reliefs because I kept pulling plugs until I found a cylinder that was at the bottom of the stroke so I could see the top of the entire piston.
The dude I got it from said he had it rebuilt 2 years ago. Maybe these pistions were used to increase compression with the stocker heads? I was thinking of taking the heads and intake right off so I can take a good look at the cylinder walls.
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Well I guess that answers your original question. Putting the camel humps on is not an option with domed pistons if you plan on running pump gas. Piston to valve clearance is going to be one of your main concerns with any mod that effects the valvetrain. I'd put the motor in and see what it does.
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I think I'm gonna pull the heads any way and take a real good look at things. Since the motor hasn't been fired after the rebuild, the head gaskets should still be good.
In the event that they are indeed domed, I will leave teh heads as they are for now and maybe save up for new top end by the winter and then switch to a good set of aluminum heads.
Thanks, but as I'm sure you are all aware, these things are ever evolving and I will likely change my mind 10 more times before I get this thing on the road.
Thanks again.
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forget about reusing the head gaskets. Once you torque them down you can't unbolt and reuse them. No problem though sbc head gaskets are cheap enough.
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Agreed, do not reuse the head gaskets. Take pix when you get the heads off.
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I would'nt use the double humps they were good in there day but are nothing compared to the heads you can buy now. If all your wanting is low end torque, look at something like the World Products s/r torquer heads, I think you can get them with the 76cc chambers that you will need with dome pistons to keep your compression reasonalble, and a cam around 210-220 duration @.050 with a lift around 450-470. Put that together with a set of 4:10-4:56 gears and you can smoke the tires until you let out of it.
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Do the '67 heads have the accessory bolt-holes in the ends? just a thought...
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No...But they can be drilled and tapped
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I still think you should run it as is and see what it has for power. If it has enough power for you there are a million other things you can spend that money on like a serious sound system:) GPS, lift kit you name it.