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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Rear Drivelines, Drive Axles and Gearing => Topic started by: SUX2BU99 on June 23, 2009, 09:11:33 pm

Title: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 23, 2009, 09:11:33 pm
I'm thinking on passing on the 700R4 upgrade from my TH350 and go instead for a diff rebuild. The factory Gov-lok isn't working and I can either purchase a new one (which apparently are built by Eaton) for about 1/2 the price of an Eaton limited slip unit. I know the aftermarket Eaton will be much stronger and last longer than the OEM style unit but I'm not sure how 'bad' the OEM unit would be. I wouldn't abuse either unit by doing right-hand turn WOT burnouts, but I might try to do that odd left-hander tail-swinger here and there ;)  Biggest concern if having both tires to put the power down when racing. My truck isn't a dragstrip warrior but the 1-tire fire is affecting my launch.

So, for what I want to do and need it for, is springing for the Eaton worth it?

And, is an entire diff rebuild a necessity or just a good idea to do? I'm also contemplating going up to 3.73's while the work is being done, up from the 3.40 I have nw.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on June 23, 2009, 09:13:17 pm
Do it righ the first time. Gov-loc = broken.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Hertzdaddy on June 23, 2009, 09:19:02 pm
I haven't heard anyone that likes a gov-loc, especially if you will drag race. Many tales of exploding diffs. Go with the Eaton posi. Its stronger and rebuildable too. And its a better unit for the street than a locker.

Eric
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on June 23, 2009, 09:30:46 pm
If you're lookin for smooth and powerful check out auburn pro-series carriers. The only downside is they're not rebuildable but I haven't broken one yet.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 23, 2009, 11:00:43 pm
Seems like the smart thing to do is to not spend the money on a rebuilt Gov-lok. I'm surprised that you recommend the Auburn, Vile. Seems most of the responses I've seen when googling this topic is that Eaton's are always recommended whereas Auburn's are about 50/50. I thought the Auburn cone clutch design was interesting until I read about them not being serviceable once the cases are worn out. Friend of mine put one in his 83 Z28 when he blew up the stocker and it worked great but this was 15+ years ago.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 24, 2009, 11:08:34 am
And, is an entire diff rebuild a necessity or just a good idea to do?


Anybody have comments about this? Must I spend more on a new bearing kit and such?
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on June 24, 2009, 12:51:36 pm
I have an auburn pro behind a pretty powerful big block and have never had a problem with it. Sure you can rebuild a clutch pack which would be more suitable for drag racing but for a mostly street driven truck they're smoother and they bite hard.

I would at least get new carrier bearings and a shim kit.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 24, 2009, 05:51:33 pm
Thanks for the input. I have found that a local rearend specialty shop is selling a pre-Gov-Lok, but OEM-style rebuilt Eaton.  I asked how it could be OEM-style but not a Gov-lok and they said this was the kind of LSD that GM used before Gov-lok came out in 1973. The picture looks just like a newer Eaton Posi, but you can tell it's an older case. It does not look like the typical Gov-lok. I've asked if this is as good as a newer Eaton since they look like the same design, or more of an in-between the Gov-lok and the newer Posi.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Captkaos on June 24, 2009, 06:12:08 pm
The one they used before the Gov-Loc was the one currently label Eaton Posi.  Same design, just uses carbon clutches now.  I have one in the truck I am building.  If I was to buy another one, it would be the Eaton Posi.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 24, 2009, 11:13:26 pm
Great to know, it'll be worth trying to purchase then. I'll ask if they upgraded the clutches at all. Makes a person wonder why they bothered at all with the Gov-lok design. It is intriguing though to look at it and wonder how it all works. Must have been smoother operation or something, or cheaper to build.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on June 25, 2009, 04:55:23 am
The idea behind the gov loc is that it's only used when needed otherwise acts like an open differential.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 25, 2009, 12:49:21 pm
I was reading a little bit of history about the Gov-lok and the design is intriguing but it's application falls short when it comes to strength and reliability.

Anyway, if I can snag this older rebuilt Posi I will, otherwise I found a new one for a great price too. I've found a couple Auburns for around the same price. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of clutches since they wear out and rely on how well they hold to determine how well they work. I like the Auburn design since there are no clutches, but it too relies on friction (the cone gear pressing against the case) and that too can wear out. Probably it will just end up coming down to price and availability on which one I get.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Captkaos on June 25, 2009, 12:56:31 pm
The Gov-Locs work as designed in the applications they were designed for.  They were NOT designed for drag racing, and have recieved a bad rep from this.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: team39763 on June 25, 2009, 01:18:00 pm
LOL...I'm still pushing my luck running the Gov-lock.  I don't know how or why it's still working, but it is.  I plan to buy one of those Yukon LSD's.  I read that they are almost a complete copy of the Eaton unit but for a lot less cash.  I also read that Eaton is in the process of sueing them for copying their design.  You may want to give them a look.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 25, 2009, 04:41:50 pm
I ran across a few people saying that, about the Yukon. I'll have to take a look at that. Their ring and pinion sets are quality pieces so I don't doubt their LSD is built well too.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on June 26, 2009, 11:05:59 pm
So I bought the one from the local vendor. It was on Ebay but I won it for $228.50 USD. It's an older OEM Eaton and fully rebuilt with new bearings and steel clutches, not the carbon ones. But that's not so bad. It's a heck of a lot better than the non-functioning Gov-lok I have. New Eatons from them are $599 CDN  :o I get it put in on the 8th :)
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: team39763 on June 27, 2009, 09:21:25 am
Sounds like a good deal.  I wonder if you could upgrade to carbon clutches later?
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Captkaos on June 29, 2009, 01:55:25 pm
Yes you can get the better clutches later.  You can pretty much get everything for these now.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 05, 2009, 01:27:56 pm
Yeah, they said it would be $120 for the rebuild kit and an hour's labor. Sounds good to me! I'll do that if and when I need to. Woohoo! Come Wednesday, no more 1-tire fire!
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: The dream on July 08, 2009, 12:02:34 pm
good luck... you must be working on your truck right now.  ;D
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 08, 2009, 09:49:04 pm
Well, 'I' wasn't, but 'they' were   lol   Picked it up today. $850-ish in parts and labor quote turned into $1200 after tax, $230 in new axle bearings, diff bearings and a u-joint.  :-\  Ah well, at least everything in there is fresh now. I still have that pulsating vibe I feel through the floor and not the wheel. They said the axles looked good though so I dunno. Guy suggested maybe pinion angle. I haven't really had a chance to test out my new posi as it was wet out and I had my daughter with me and wife following me, but come Friday, it's track day :)

lol Dude who road tested my truck said it was scary to drive and I really need to be careful. Too powerful he says. My truck ain't all that powerful but I guess on the wet roads, it gets a little squirrely.

Oh yeah, so the Gov-lok was totally pooched. It was seized enough that they had to torch it out. He showed me stripped and broken teeth and a broken cross pin that prevented the unit from doing anything except just spinning around in the diff. Then he just tossed it in the trash can and said "that's what we do with these"  lol
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 11, 2009, 06:40:57 pm
Ugh  >:(

Drove my truck to the store today with my daughter. Got straight on an even nice road and ran it up through 1st and 2nd. Back off the gas and WHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.   :o   So on throttle I get lots of noise and howl with the occasional scraping sound that comes in and out. Not sure what this could be now. I know of a guy who had his diff serviced some years back and he went on a long road trip up here to Canada. On his way back from Whistler, lots of noise starting coming from the diff. Turns out the shop didn't fill his diff with fluid! Sound didn't start right away though.

I have no idea what this issue is. I'm worried the shop that did the work is going to give me flak and try to weasle out of fixing it for no cost.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on July 12, 2009, 07:42:46 am
Check the fluid level and see if they filled it. Sounds like you have some hacks. Fins a driveline specialty shop.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: fitz on July 12, 2009, 08:34:52 am
Check the fluid level and see if they filled it. Sounds like you have some hacks. Fins a driveline specialty shop.

I just bought an Eaton posi unit and it came with a bottle of Ford Motorsport Posi Additive. I noticed you bought a rebuilt posi unit off ebay, did it come with the additive?
I had mine installed with new Yukon gears and Timken bearings. It's as quiet as can be, you would never know it was modified until you jump on it and see the smoke from the 35"s.
I hate to be the one to say it but I think you have some other issues going on as far as the install goes. I would do something about it quick before you start chewing up some expensive parts.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 12, 2009, 10:48:10 am
Thanks guys. I DID go to a specialty differential shop. It's called "Rear Ends Only". They've been around doing just diffs for almost 25 years. I'm stunned this has happened. What's the best way to check it, except by dumping all the fluid out? Open up the fill plug and see if the fluid is up to the leve of where the plug is?

I don't know why, but I just have this sinking feeling they are going to try and weasle out of fixing anything because they think I abused it somehow. I did tell them before I bought the unit that I drag race my truck occasionally and how fast my truck is. They said the unit should be fine for my application and didn't express any concern whatsoever about it not being strong enough. Maybe something just failed, which happens sometimes but that shouldn't cost me a dime. THEY rebuilt the unit in their own shop, THEY installed it (with their own fluids they recommended) and I also bucked up for new axle and diff bearings. Nothing really can be blamed on anything old or not something they provided. They told me the ring and pinion looked good and so did the axles.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 14, 2009, 01:28:50 am
So I phoned today and the guy I dealt with when I got the work done was surprised obviously to hear that this happened. He said to bring it in right away. I live 60 miles or so away so it's not exactly down the street and they won't pay for a tow. I explained I don't want to burn up my ring and pinion bringing it down there since I won't be paying for that to be fixed. He said to just take it slow and easy but to get it somehow to there shop. Blah. That's one reason I guess on why a person should shop locally!

I asked him if I should check the fluid and he said sure, and check to see if the fluid is black or has shavings in it my dipping my finger in thru the fill plug. I pulled the plug and fluid immediately came out so I know it's full and it wasn't discolored at all. No shavings that I could tell by dipping my finger in thru the hole but it's rather small too. We'll see what happens when I get it down there. It's gonna be a loooooong drive doing about 35-40 MPH on the backroads.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on July 14, 2009, 04:53:27 am
Are the u-joints ok? U-joint straps tight? Did you get under there and wiggle things around?
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 14, 2009, 10:27:20 am
I did and it all seemed tight. I tried moving the driveshaft up and down at the rear u-joint (which was replaced) and it was tight. I put it in neutral and turned a tire and the other moved in the same direction and no strange sounds but then the noises are quiet until about 35 MPH anyway.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: The dream on July 14, 2009, 11:51:01 am
It sounds like a nightmare.  :o
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 14, 2009, 06:23:20 pm
Yeah it's going to really suck getting it there but they had their hands on everything in there, so I can't really see how anything other than what they did, touched or replaced would be to blame, so therefore at their cost.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 15, 2009, 05:06:59 pm
Drove it just for a little bit last night and when the fluid gets warmed up, it gets the most noisy on very light throttle application. Like when you are driving on flat ground and holding steady speed. On accel it quiets a little bit, but then my exhaust sound level picks up quite a bit so it might be being drowned out.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: campcrf on July 16, 2009, 12:48:33 pm
wow... I really hope you find out your problem (and the shop doesnt screw you). I have learned alot of information with this thread as I am trying to make a decision on my diff (thanks)... still wondering what to do.  Do you have a thread on the specs of your truck?... I was leaning towards the eaton way aswell. The good ol "lincoln" posi just wont cut it anymore...lol
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 16, 2009, 02:55:00 pm
Glad to be of help! Specs for my truck are pretty much listed in my signature. From what I've seen and learned, for my power level the Auburn or the Eaton are 50/50 as good. Auburn's seem to be at least $100 cheaper. I was told that Eaton went through 2 price increases over the past year or so for the same product. There are still some cheap, new ones on Ebay to be had. I talked to a shop in Savannah, Georgia about one. The ones they had were from when they bought them at the old prices and have since lost their dealership for Eaton since they cannot sell enough yearly volume to keep selling them. So, they are blowing them out at their cost.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: campcrf on July 16, 2009, 03:39:22 pm
it looks like we are running close to the same set up.. minus the diff... how do you like the 3.80?  I have 3.73 right now and was thinking of 4.11. I am have traction problems and ordered a comp. engineering slide-a-link to see if it will help...  383 stroker, 562 lift comp cam, dart pro heads, aprox 490+hp with a reverse manual valve body t350, 3000 stall.
  So when do you take your truck in?.... There was a truck that looks just like yours at street machine weekend last week in Lethbridge alberta....
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: campcrf on July 16, 2009, 03:41:49 pm
sorry, I meant "how do you like the 3.40?"
  Let us know how the results go for your diff.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 16, 2009, 09:50:03 pm
I like the 3.40's over the 2.76's I had before, that's for sure lol  I think alot about wanting 3.73's but that's such a small jump over 3.40 it wouldn't do a whole lot. I go through the traps under 4500 RPM and that sucks because I'm leaving speed on the table. 3.73 and a 700R4 would be great, or eve 4.10s but it will be a rather long time before I can pony up $2500+ for a 700R4 I can trust.

I take the truck in next Friday. I started a new job this past Monday (after 13 years at my 1st career job and then being told to pack yer stuff n' go, but I got a severance) and I would feel weird to take a day off so soon, and I have to get the truck there myself. So it's either take it slow on the backroads or rent a pickup and wheel dolly from U-haul and tow it there. They weren't willing to help me get it there, which totally blows.

There's a twin to my truck I occasionally see on the highway. Trips me out. Only difference is he doesn't have the stainless band on the tailgate.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 25, 2009, 11:30:37 am
So, a day taken off from a new job, a flatbed tow from BCAA that cost me $150 to join (which I know cost at least 1/2 of what it would cost to just tow it to the shop), my wife and daughter getting up early to take dad down to the shop, and I'm back on the road. But now I'm back on the road with a set of Yukon 3.73 gears :)

Basically to run it down, this is how it went:

- drop off truck at 9am, describe problem. Probably R&P they say. OKay, we go for breakfast.
- get call while at breakfast, "Can't find anything wrong. You sure it isn't your tranny that's the problem?" Me: "No, tranny is just fine. I'll be there shortly."
- arrive and yep, they find that the R&P is wiped out
- me: "You told me the R&P was just fine, had fine wear pattern and said nothing about possibly replacing it"
- them: "Well, they are old gears which have never been removed and sometimes this can happen"
- wife: "But you didn't warn him of that at all. You didn't say anything other than they were in fine shape"
- them: "I know. $&*% happens but I'll cut  you a great deal on labor to replace them. We dont' have any in stock and can't find them anywhere. All of our suppliers are always out of 3.08 and 3.40/3.42 gears. I can call you though when we get some"
- me: "So I can drive this thing home?"
- them: "Oh sure, it will just be noisy and you could have driven it here."
- wife: "How long is this thing going to last the way it is?"
- them: "Maybe a month"
- me (mentally preparing to have to come back or go somewhere else and pay more money): "Ya know it really sucks that GM made the posi carrier fit only up to 3.42 gears. I'd go with a 3.73 if I could."
- them: "Really? You'd go with a 3.73? We can do that. We just use a 'thick' gear set. I'll see if I have one.....yep, I have one."
- me and wife, pondering why this wasn't suggested much earlier on: "Uh yeah, let's do it!"

So after free labor for the change and $360 after tax for the 3.73 R&P I'm back on the road. I'm driving under 50 MPH, off the freeway and gently for 300 miles to break the gears in as required by the shop.

I'm not happy I've sunk over $1500 into my rear diff but having 3.73s and a fully rebuilt diff now is alright for drag purposes and around-town driving.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: team39763 on July 29, 2009, 03:17:03 pm
Wow, seems like a nightmare.  I don't have a good rearend shop within a few hundred miles, so I think I'm just gonna grab a few how-to books/videos and do it myself.  Glad everything worked out for you in the end though.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on July 30, 2009, 10:39:09 am
The break-in process is still underway. I have 470kms on it so far and the shop said take it easy for 500kms, which is about 350 miles. I checked on Yukon's site last night and they said no heavy acceleration for first 100 miles, no towing for 500 miles, and drive lightly for the first 15-20 miles and stop to let cool. He also said don't just hop on the freeway and drive all the way home; the gears will be wiped out by the time you get there. Fair enough, I had to stop at a friends about 20 miles away and get a new windshield and I replaced my slider with a solid rear window and chilled for the evening.

Anyway, I've been a really good boy about break-in. No WOT acceleration, ripping it up thru the gears, nothing over 90 kmh (50 mph), I've been taking it to work which is about 20 miles 1 way. Nothing really for noise has been coming from back there. Slight howl at the typical 45 mph but I've had new trucks do that on me.

Last night I was just about home and these 2 guys pull up beside me and want me to light it up  ;D I'm already rolling so I don't but I dropped it into 1st and romped on it through the 1-2 change and then back off. Then I hear some more howl  :-[ Kinda like I heated up the fluid a lot. I drive home and it quiets back down some. Today, I seem to hear a little more howl with the window open and the radio at a level below converstaion level in a truck with the windows open. This is at 45 mph. I don't think I'll worry too much about it. Shop dude said the Richmond gears he was going to put in originally were really noisy because of being such a hard metal but the Yukons were softer and quieter. Whisper quiet I don't know but a little howl isn't a huge deal is it?

I'm wondering if a lube change after the break-in period is over will do anything. I don't know what fluid they use but it's honey colored. I used the Castrol stuff in my diff all last year and beat on it and no issues.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: team39763 on August 04, 2009, 12:23:02 am
Nobody told me any better when I got my gear swap...I made a 400mile trip right after my gears were installed and then did a few burnouts to show-off in front of my mom.  ;D  My gears howled for a few weeks after that then it went away.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 04, 2009, 10:32:04 am
^ That's interesting that your howl went away because everything I've heard about howl is once it's there, it isn't going away. That's great that yours did!

Mine is there for sure I think to stay at 80 KPH (50 MPH), which seems to be a magic number for rear end howl for some reason. I ripped on it this morning (440 miles on it now) and like I expected, some extra noise after I backed off which went away after a minute or so of normal driving. I'm going to drive like I normally do (cruising around with some occasional wide open blasts up to 3rd) and see how it shakes out over the next couple weeks. I hope to get at least one or two drag racing nights in there too and see how it does. I still think it's noisier than it should be. I should get a local 2nd opinion. Just sucks that the shop who did the work requires taking a day off work. Old job wasn't a problem, the new job I started is moreso  :-\
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 05, 2009, 10:17:37 am
 >:(

 >:(

 >:(

So my R&P pooched itself last night. I had 500 miles on it finally and I figured "okay, I'm going to let this thing rip from a dead stop."  So I did that, got a little spin out of the hole and ran it up WOT to 3rd gear and backed off. Lots of noise was present after that, and it didn't go away. Very light throttle application, where the gear teeth are neither loaded on accel or coast, produces lots of gear gnash and noise and slowing to a stop makes a nice growl. It's not the trans either, as I hear it clearly out the side window and not from under the trans tunnel. Same sound as when my original R&P went out. I'm at a loss here and I'm worried even more about phoning the shop to let them know but this is all entirely under warranty. I really did follow the break-in procedure well. This just boggles me.

They said they put in Yukon gears although I didn't actually see them. They are a 3.73 'thick' gear set to use with my 3.42 and down carrier. They were going to put in a Richmond set but they found they were mis-boxed. I wonder if something is up with the same kind of thing. Or, they set the gears up to 12 bolt CAR specs and not truck? Does it make a difference?
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 12, 2009, 05:43:01 pm
Well so I had it out with them today on the phone, the manager and the business owner. I was trying to be very flexible to ensure I had my truck done by Friday afternoon and at no cost to me. I was even going to have it towed there Thursday so they had extra time. All they could say was "we'll do our best to get it done Friday".  That's not good enough in my opinion. I'm having it TOWED over 60 miles to get there! Anyway, after that we got into the warranty coverage and after a lot of back and forth and raised voices it came down to I pay the entire bill for new gears and labor (about $1000 or close to it), then they send the gears back to Yukon for inspection and if they determine the gears were faulty, THEN I get reimbursed. Gee, who do you think has the biggest chance of losing out on that one? The shop that does thousands of dollars a day in business, or the guy who works 2 jobs to keep a comfortable life and his wife at home with his daughter??? I said that to the owner when he asked me why he should take the risk of me not paying up front.

So long story short, I'm 90% sure I'd be out the money anyway through them so I think I'll just eat it and go to a local shop and pay AGAIN for gears and labor. Frick man, what a bloody gong show.

Be forewarned, if you are in the Lower Mainland of BC and are considering using IWE Rear Ends Only for rear end work, read this thread.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on August 12, 2009, 09:37:27 pm
That sucks. Go to your motor vehicle department and file a complaint against them. Contact the Better Business Bureau and consumer protection.

Try this, go on like Craigslist or something and put an ad for someone who does rear ends ( lol that doesn't sound good any which way think about it! ) :D

If you were closer I'd hook you up. Sorry man
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: campcrf on August 12, 2009, 11:36:36 pm
sux...
sorry to hear that... wow... i cant beleive that, what a bunch of crooks.... to bad you didnt live closer to me (Brooks, Alberta). I could of hooked you up with a good shop that would actually stand behind their work. Well, hopefully you find a shop that will treat you right... let us know what you end up doing.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 13, 2009, 01:04:01 am
Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words. I am filing a complaint with the BBB as we speak and we do have a consumer protection association. I did the mechanical design for their offices now that I think about it so I will contact them too. It's too bad I can't find any other ways to impact their business to a point where they would want to right their wrong.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on August 13, 2009, 08:54:20 am
Get an estimate for repair from a garage.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 13, 2009, 09:58:10 am
That I will indeed do. I know it's going to be about $900-1000 after taxes for a new R&P, 'install kit', fluids and labor. They'll want to do bearings too but those are new. I would think the install kit would just be reuseable too but I will ask the shop about that. I sent thru my complaint last night and on the part where they ask how you want the complaint resolved I said either for that shop to fix it at no cost to me, or pay for a local shop to fix it. I also said I wasn't entirely confident that if the orignal fixed it, that the problem wouldn't happen again since I'm feeling their skills are suspect. But, my original desire was to have them just fix it at no cost so if that's what's offered, that's what I should take.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 27, 2009, 05:05:39 pm
Well I got a phone call this morning. Dude who owns the shop I'm having this mess with said he had heard from Yukon (I talked to another person at Yukon yesterday and I think that got the ball rolling) and from the BBB. To boil it down, he kindly said to bring it in and the gears will be replaced at 0 cost to me. Sounds like Yukon and/or the BBB gave it to him strong enough that he now has a more humble attitude. I'm glad to hear this but I'm apprehensive still about their skills even though they are rear end specialists. I think they will probably give my entire rear end a thorough look to make sure nothing else is wrong (and a possible excuse to get more money out of me) but for now, the gears and anything else that might need replacing because of this, is covered.

I had it towed there this afternoon and it probalby just arrived. With baited breath and fingers crossed, I hope to have it back by tomorrow afternoon. And have it back fixed properly this time, without costing me anything more!
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Captkaos on August 27, 2009, 05:19:13 pm
This is good news!
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Armor on August 27, 2009, 05:35:44 pm
best of luck, i hope they get it right this time!!!
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: campcrf on August 28, 2009, 04:20:43 pm
wish you luck man
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 29, 2009, 03:29:22 pm
Picked it up yesterday and drove it home. They wanted us out of there and were cordial but certainly didn't want to see my face again. They replaced the R&P, all seals, and fluids. They test drove it 3 times including once on the hoist to 'bed the gears in'. I drove it home very gently, just like last time, and had a couple of min. 1 hr cool down periods on there too. Seems fine so far but I will be a little apprehensive for obvious reasons.

He had the gall to put on the invoice that I had a 'race' truck, that warranty is void if 'raced' and that 'unfortunately we will no longer be able to serve you in the future'. So get lost, basically. Nice, eh?
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: fitz on August 29, 2009, 03:42:09 pm
Did they use Yukon gears again? I don't know if you got all of the paperwork with your gears/posi but don't forget that Yukon recommends changing the gear oil at 500 miles and Eaton recommend to use Ford Motorsports posi additive.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on August 30, 2009, 10:48:25 am
Yep, they used Yukon again and after 500 miles I will change the oil again. I'll use Castrol Hypoy-C along with the Ford additive. I remember that part from the original Ebay auction I won when I got the rebuilt Eaton.

They also replaced my chrome cover with a plain painted steel one to disappate the heat better, at least through break-in period. I can see some validity in that. Chrome doesn't help to shed heat.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: team39763 on September 02, 2009, 03:35:09 pm
That's cool that the BBB got some results for you.  We tried that with a shop a few years ago, but they guy changed his number and BBB couldn't contact him so we were out of $400.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on September 11, 2009, 11:13:28 am
Okay, so I got 550 kms on the setup, which is about 350 miles. That's just the mileage I know though from when I picked it up at the shop. They said they road tested it 3 times and 'bedded the gears in'. It's been pretty quiet. Just a very little bit of howl at 50 mph but pretty small. Weather conditions have been good (not too hot) for the days that I've been driving it and have been doing no WOT runs.

Today I figured would be a little test day. I even taped it with my digital camera. I did a short WOT run from a stop and all I believe was okay, but my governor short-shifts my trans on the 1-2 at like 3500 RPM sometimes. After driving some further distance, I did another WOT run. This time a 5500 1-2 shift. Now my tranny does shift hard and the cam and heads did open up a powerband that brings it on stronger above 3500. Result is some louder howl now at 50 MPH. It's not as bad as it was the previous time around where it got rather loud and then quieted down after about a couple of minutes but left a louder level of howl.

Does this freak me out again? Yes! I was on the power not even 10 seconds. How could howl result from such a short power blast? Can gear oil heat up and break down THAT fast? I was REALLY hoping for complete peace and quiet this time. I know it's a faint hope, but I think my only hope is that an oil change will ideally keep things more quiet or at the very least, not any louder.

I might get my oil changed today before I drive it home from work. If I do I'm going with Castrol Hypoy-C and what for friction modifier? On the Ebay auction I won, the shop said 2 bottles of GM modifier yet Fitz says above that Eaton recommends Ford Motorsport additive? I emailed Eaton. Hopefully they will reply soon.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on October 24, 2009, 04:12:09 pm
Just as an update to this, I got all my money back I spent at the original shop for the posi unit,3.73 gears, labor and taxes. Still out the towing costs and time lost from work but I got back what I spent there so that's great. I returned the R&P and posi to the shop.

I bought a replacement diff out of a junked 77 2wd 1/2-ton. It's a 3.40 12-bolt with a Gov-lok that was entirely rebuilt with new parts (according to the seller) about 5 years ago, then the motor threw a rod 4 years ago and everything sat.

I've since stripped it, repainted it and transferred the brakes from the diff I put in July 2008. I've got the old diff out now and the new one is ready to go in. Pretty much exact same process as I did in July 2008. It's AWESOME though to have bolts that come off nice and easy because I used all new hardware last year. Still quite a bit of work though.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: VileZambonie on October 24, 2009, 04:26:11 pm
Good luck with it. Too bad you had so much bs to deal with.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on October 24, 2009, 07:50:52 pm
Thanks. What should have been an enjoyable upgrade turned into a complete mess. I truly hope that in the spring when I basically want to do this over again with 3.73s and an Eaton, it goes the way it should: right the first time.

I found it interesting that I found "GM 73" cast into my old housing. My new one has "GM 77" on it, which makes sense as it was original to the 77 it came from. My old one may have been a 1st-year unit for the then-new Gov-lok which it had but was not working anymore. Kinda wish I had looked to see what the original housing that came with my truck with the 2.76 gears had cast into it for a year since I don't believe the frame to my truck is original. This would be the 3rd rear end now my truck has had in it since 2008. Original 2.76 open I took out for a 3.40 gov-lok, and now another 3.40 gov-lok.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on November 06, 2009, 10:24:13 am
I've got the new rear end 95% installed. I'm having an issue with the driver side lower shock mounting ears. The one side got bent in somehow from the previous owner and the bend is right above the hole for the bolt, making it not so simple as banging it straight with a hammer. That just bends the end of the ear out but not where the kink is. Is there some kind of spreader type tool out there I could use? Something I could put in between the ears, then crank on it and bend it straight?

I tried using my bench vise by getting it in there and spreading it open but that just busted the cheap little C clip that retains the one jaw of the vise and made it useless now  >:(
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: Captkaos on November 09, 2009, 08:49:24 pm
How about putting a cresent wrench on it and bending it out.
Title: Re: Rebuild Gov-lok or spring for Eaton?
Post by: SUX2BU99 on November 10, 2009, 12:13:24 pm
Hmmm I never thought of that. I bet that would have been of some help. I ended up grinding down the portion of sleeve in the shock end that was sticking out, and made it flush with the rubber bushing. It was about 1/16" and grinding that down plus knocking it in with my small sledge did the trick and the bolt is in. Just have to bleed the brakes now and get the wheels back on :)