73-87chevytrucks.com

73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => 73-87 Chevy & GMC Trucks => Topic started by: olblue2 on September 17, 2009, 09:24:32 pm

Title: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 17, 2009, 09:24:32 pm
ok people i need help. im trying to find my 1973 chevy c-10 4x4 that i owned in 1994, reason im looking for it us my 17 year old son just passed away a month ago and i remember when he was younger he loved riding in it, so i wanna find it to rebuild it in rememberance of him.  i have a 1977 k-20 4x4 thats similair in looks but its not the truck he rode in.

im in virginia, any way i can remotely find that old truck?  i dont have the vin anywere but could i contact dmv and get the info from them???

please guys any and all help in locating this truck will be a miracle for me.  all i have do go on is make model year color, but i have the old license plate number that was on the truck


thanks for any help
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: hotrod24 on September 17, 2009, 09:47:45 pm
If you dont mind me asking what happen to your son at such a young age?
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: oldredtruck on September 17, 2009, 09:53:17 pm
 My sympathies to you and your family...
I hope you find it! - God Bless.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 17, 2009, 10:01:46 pm
If you dont mind me asking what happen to your son at such a young age?


he took his own life
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: hotrod24 on September 17, 2009, 10:17:53 pm
wow i am sorry olblue he is in my prayers and your family
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: dumbucket1 on September 18, 2009, 07:05:12 am
If you end up not being able to locate it turn your 76 into a replica of it.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: maddog on September 18, 2009, 08:13:03 am
Oldblue
Words can not discribe how you must feel, Im am a father of a teenage boy myself and this would be life changing for me if I lost him.
I will keep you in my prayers.
Every day is a new life to a wise man, begin everyday by reminding yourself to trust in God
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 18, 2009, 08:21:47 am
i appreciate all the prayers.  ive been thru so much in my life i never thought anything could be this bad but was wrong.  i would just love to find the exact truck that he used to ride in.  i mean the plan is to fix the one i have now to look exactly like it but, its still not the truck he rode in and loved as a baby.  just was wondering how people go about finding old vehicles, here in virginia the dmv are pricks and wont give u info as if your trying to hack into nuclear launch codes.

just was looking for ideas how to find it.  and again appreciate the prayers.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: joesgarage71 on September 18, 2009, 09:27:48 am
If you still have the VIN numbers you can do a car fax and it should tell you the current owner (or who had plates on it last)
sorry for your loss.
 Steve
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Stewart G Griffin on September 18, 2009, 11:46:42 am
Did you try the local dmv or richmond?

i had to call richmond once to try to clear an unpaid (or so i thought) ticket and they were very helpful.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 18, 2009, 12:28:37 pm
I am sorry to hear about your loss.   I have a 4 year old boy right now and he loves my suburban and my green truck.  He calls my sub the "big" truck and he calls my green 383 79 pickup the "fast truck".  He loves them both and I hang one of the forum's 2009 calendars up in his room and it is always November because daddy's truck in on there.

I don't know what part in virginia you live, I am in Henrico County.  Here's what I can advise...go down to the Richmond main DMV on Broad Street, next to the children's science museum.  All the head hancho's work there. If you get the run around at the booths, ask to talk to a supervisor.  Ask them what the procedure would be. Surely you have a copy of an old regisstration card or copy of title or old tax forms with VIN...do you use the same insurance company?  The agent could pull your file and retrieve VIN.  Do you live in same county?  They have tax records as well to get the county sticker. Or, go to the old county you used to live in and get the info.

If all that fails, go to your general district court and fill out a subpoena duces tecum.  It will cost about $20 to fill it out and get the sheriff's office to serve it.  It will have a court date on it saying when the records are due.  It is a court order for the DMV to give you that info.  They have no choice.  They are ok with that because they have documentation from court ordering them to do this so they are covered when it comes to privacy issues and such. 

Now, you may have to file another subpoena duces tecum because one will be to get the VIN number.  The other to see who the current owner is. IF they are still in Virginia.  You may be able to ask for all this on one subpoena although.

If you get the run around at the clerk's office, consult an attorney.  If you are in the Richmond area, I can give you some names. It will be a nominal fee and sounds like it will be worth it.



 

 

Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 18, 2009, 07:28:31 pm
well guys by a miracle of God i found the vin #.  found an old insurance policy and sure enough i got it.    carfax wont work as they only go back to 1981 when they started requiring 17 digit vin""s .   talked to the deputy director at dmv and he said he will look into finding it but wont release to me the info on owner because of laws, but can send them a letter stating that im looking for it and why.    maybe will work who knows.  hopefully it aint wrecked or been totaled.   any other ideas guys if this doesnt work??  heck im about to print up fliers and post em all over like a lost puppy.    best dang vehicle i ever had and the one he loved the most and my dumbass let it go.      any help will be so ever greatful. 
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 18, 2009, 09:05:02 pm
Quote
he said he will look into finding it but wont release to me the info on owner because of laws, but can send them a letter stating that im looking for it and why.

Maybe he can unofficially pull up info and tell you if it is still on the road, at the very least.  If you push a little, he may tell you the county.  The more it can norrow down the better.

From there, do as I suggest and petition the court to get the info.  That is why they are there.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 21, 2009, 10:39:32 pm
well guys one step closer. the deputy director got me info and as far as i know the trucks still on ride (kinda) and within 20 miles. talked to guy that just sold it few months ago, hes had it for 13 years.  the made it into a pullin truck but doesnt matter to me, one step closer to gettin it back..  wish me luck guys
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: 87OldYeller on September 22, 2009, 06:35:52 am
Goodluck, hope you get it back.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 22, 2009, 07:49:13 am
I hope the guy you talked to told you how much he sold it for so you'll have an idea what the guy'll take for it. good luck
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: eventhorizon66 on September 22, 2009, 09:05:55 am
Don't let him smell desperation or the price will double.  Good luck.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 22, 2009, 11:36:18 am
yeah he told me he sold it for $1,600   so i know what i wanna give for it
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: oldredtruck on September 22, 2009, 08:21:49 pm
Good things happen to good people - plus persistence...Go get em'!
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: mean79 on September 22, 2009, 08:35:52 pm
Im sorry for your loss,im in henrico and you said that it was turned into a pulling truck.hmmm... i go too alot of truck pulls and i may have seen one,idk.but it was a 78 and older chevy. good luck on finding it.hope this little bit info helps
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 22, 2009, 08:45:16 pm
Im sorry for your loss,im in henrico and you said that it was turned into a pulling truck.hmmm... i go too alot of truck pulls and i may have seen one,idk.but it was a 78 and older chevy. good luck on finding it.hope this little bit info helps

yeah this truck was a 1973 c-10.  used mostly around expo here in augusta county im assuming.  talked to guy tonite still no luck on finding who he sold it to yet, he said he knows a few guys that should know but no luck yet :'(
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 23, 2009, 10:21:15 am
Quote
augusta county

I do a lot of camping out there.  Beautiful country--stuarts draft--near sherando, st. marys wilderness, to south of Staunton (home of Woodrow Wilson) near augusta springs in the national forest and a shooting range out there, where I hone in my shooting skills--great camp sites near there. I even had a girl friend way back when who lived near verona in augusta off the, as Virginia native Bruce Hornsby calls, old Valley Road, hwy 11.  They have a lot of expo things around Fishersville, you may be lucky to see her pop up there some day.  Hopefully the guy knows whether he sold it to a local guy in the same county or nearby.   
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 01:23:54 pm
well finally located the guy that owns it, its about 25 miles from me. said he didnt think he would sell it :'(    but told him id like to at least see it     u know life sucks so bad, u loose someone like i did and one dang thing i wanna do in rememberance i cant even make that happen.      very sad :'(
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: 87OldYeller on September 23, 2009, 01:56:31 pm
sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: 87OldYeller on September 23, 2009, 02:00:17 pm
Well if he says he would like to sell it, and it is more than you can pay, I would be happy to try to contribute anything i could to help you buy this truck back. Just please keep info up and i hope he will come around.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 02:29:27 pm
Well if he says he would like to sell it, and it is more than you can pay, I would be happy to try to contribute anything i could to help you buy this truck back. Just please keep info up and i hope he will come around.


wow thats a very generous offer. means alot to me that someone u dont even know is willing to help.  its just a very sad time for me. never ever thought id loose my son, and never ever thought id find that truck but i did, but the guy didnt seem to freindly or understanding and seemed not interested in selling.  hard now to afford paying a super high price for it as i been out of work since he passed away and also the funeral expenses were about $4,000 more than the insurance poicy covered, so funds are limited.  i know i can never have my son back but sure would love to have that truck. he used to love riding in it.   just been a rough life for me. last year found out wife had cancer and this year i loose my son.   maybe God will cut me a break and let me get this truck.   guess ill keep on praying
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: DnStClr on September 23, 2009, 02:44:42 pm
This is a story too rivetting to pass up. Count me in on a donation. Let's see if we can get this guy to sell the truck back.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 02:58:36 pm
This is a story too rivetting to pass up. Count me in on a donation. Let's see if we can get this guy to sell the truck back.

your guys are great, words cant describe what it means that people are willing to help me with my goal.  i only have one photo of me and my son with this truck but it says its to large to put on here, so if anyone knows how to get it on here id love for u all to see it.   i told my wife id sell everything i own to have that truck back. sometimes i wonder why ive been dealt the life i have, but its good to know that there are some caring people out there like u guys and i deeply from the bottom of my heart appreciate it all.   
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 23, 2009, 05:21:04 pm
email me your picture....I'll downsize it for you and host it.

andy@delbridge.net


Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 06:44:59 pm
email me your picture....I'll downsize it for you and host it.

andy@delbridge.net




email sent.   thanks for doin that, like everyone to see that truck
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 23, 2009, 07:38:02 pm
here ya go dennis.  Glad to do it...


(http://www.delbridge.net/Scan_2.jpg)
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 07:40:29 pm
here ya go dennis.  Glad to do it...


(http://www.delbridge.net/Scan_2.jpg)

thanks so much,  now everyone can see what im after, or what it used to look like.  thats the only pic of the truck and my son together,  the little girl is his half sister.  everytime i see that pic it brings tears to my eyes. not only that ill never see my son again, but that his favorite truck is within reach but seems impossible to get.  i know when i see the truck ill break down bad.    God if you are listening as i know u are grant me one wish,  grant me the wish to get that truck back in loving memory of my son.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 23, 2009, 07:43:51 pm
here's another

(http://www.delbridge.net/Scan_3.jpg)(http://www.delbridge.net/Scan_4.jpg)
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 23, 2009, 07:53:47 pm
thanks so much sgtdel.  it really hits home and i deeply appreciate u puttin those on there for me
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 23, 2009, 08:34:18 pm
not a problem.  I wish I could do more.  Makes me wanna rethink gettin rid of my 4 year old boy's toys as he outgrows them.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: mean79 on September 23, 2009, 08:56:44 pm
i hope he sells it too... what i meant to say is it was a 73-78 chevy didnt really look but the bezels didnt cover the bottom lights like on my 79.  do you know maybe what the paint scheme or r u clueless of what it looks like im trying to help a little bit.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 26, 2009, 04:44:13 pm
well guys tried to call guy back about truck and think it sound like i got hung up on.  then called back and all i got was answer machine.  guess he figures im some scam or something. this is really disheartning.  any body have any ideas what i can do to convince this guy to sell or heck at least let me see the truck???? :'(
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: low budget on September 26, 2009, 04:58:54 pm
Maybe have the guy that sold it to him talk to him.  Maybe he can say something in your behalf sense he has dealt with him before?  Keep looking for a way, but don't keep bugging him or he might put some kind of charges against you and you won't get it back...
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: choptop on September 26, 2009, 07:51:34 pm
This is a story too rivetting to pass up. Count me in on a donation. Let's see if we can get this guy to sell the truck back.
+1 with added prayers
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 26, 2009, 08:29:40 pm
write him a letter, note or something just explaining things and if he ever has a change of heart to contact you.  Let it ride at that for while.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Irish_Alley on September 27, 2009, 01:26:34 am
i would do what low and Sgt say. get the guy that sold him the truck maybe talk to him give him your info then just let it ride from there. if the guy has any heart he will contact you
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: devious on September 27, 2009, 11:36:27 am
I'd be more than happy to donate some funds your way...Im sorry for your loss and I hope the guy that owns the truck now is understanding enough to sell it back to you so you have some kind of rememberence of your son. just let me know if the guy has a change of heart & ill send funds your way.

btw beautiful truck
wish you the best
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: 87OldYeller on September 27, 2009, 12:35:38 pm
Yea if he does name a price, just post it up here... Maybe we can help you get it back if he will sell it.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 27, 2009, 03:48:20 pm
ill keep everyone posted, and i really appreciate all the help. right now cant get him to return my calls.  just makes me sad and mad that the truck is within 25 miles of me after 15 years and the guys seems like a dick about it.  i told him if he didnt wanna sell id at least like to just see it and takes some pics.  guess some people have no heart and dont give a dang.  but really really appreciate all your offers for help,  hopefully he will come around
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 29, 2009, 04:09:06 pm
well guys no luck. the guy that had it that sold it to this guy doesnt know him personally, just sold it to him. he even said he was a jerk when he bought it.  so guess im screwed :'(

guess ill just have to make my 1977 a replica just very very sad cant get the truck my son rode in.

Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: hotrod24 on September 29, 2009, 04:52:14 pm
would he trade trucks with you?
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 29, 2009, 04:55:41 pm
would he trade trucks with you?

heck cant even get him to answer to ask him, but id be really gettin screwed. my 1977 is a 3/4 ton, with a $2,500 motor in it and new clutch, rad,   the 1973 i had has no motor, been made into a pullin truck, and heard its in rough shape.    believe me i thought about it, but i guess this guy thinks im someone trying to scam him.  i just told him the reason i wanted it  but seemed he could not care
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: hotrod24 on September 29, 2009, 05:12:08 pm
yea i understand that some people just dont have hearts maybe he will come around

good luck
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: fitz on September 29, 2009, 09:08:36 pm
Cash talks. I'd show up at his house with cash in hand and he may have a change of heart.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 29, 2009, 09:12:01 pm
Cash talks. I'd show up at his house with cash in hand and he may have a change of heart.

thats just it i dont know were he lives, i know hes working about 100 miles from here but the truck is only 25 miles from me.   id sell my soul to the devil for this truck back.  ive lost my son and all i wanna do is get that truck back and redo it in his rememberance.   
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on September 29, 2009, 09:13:29 pm
maybe i should post his name and number and get some people callin off here and convince him to sell it
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: TexasRed on September 29, 2009, 09:58:05 pm
I believe that would be construed as harassment.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: eventhorizon66 on September 30, 2009, 07:45:57 am
I believe that would be construed as harassment.

I would think so too.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Captkaos on September 30, 2009, 10:43:05 am
maybe i should post his name and number and get some people callin off here and convince him to sell it

Don't do that, I will remove it.  Put yourself in his situation for a minute.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: DnStClr on September 30, 2009, 12:13:49 pm
It looks like the best thing to do is forget about getting the truck back and make a replica. It's not the truck that has importance. It's your son. This might be hard to understand but there are times when the good Lord keeps things away from us for a bigger purpose than we realize at the time it's happening.
Just look at the lives your story has touched here on this website! 
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on September 30, 2009, 01:41:24 pm
Good point Don.  Reading this kind of thing kind of puts things into perspective of not taking anything for granted and cherish the memories.  Each person is put on this Earth for a reason, no matter how long, or how short, and we certainly don't know the reasons the way things pan out. 

It's human nature to want to hold on to something as a reminder, but, when you get right down to it, all your memories are inside you and not in some tangible object. 

It's very similar to when parents lose a child and they keep the child's room exactly as it was when the child was last there.  I can understand that, but, we all must move on.  By going into that room as it was left will not bring the person back.  At some point, after a period of grieving, we must move on.  They would want it that way.  Life doesn't have to end for the survivors as well.
   
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: oldredtruck on October 01, 2009, 08:57:10 am
SgtDel -
 very, very well said...
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 01, 2009, 10:20:13 pm
well guys im pretty much convinced that gettin that 1973 back is not gonna happen,  but if any in the area of stuarts draft va id love some help workin on my 1977 trying to turn it into a replica of the 1973 my son loved

any and all help will be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 01, 2009, 10:36:25 pm
man i love that area.  If i could sell everything and move out there, i'd do it in a heartbeat...around the St Mary's wilderness and george washing nat'l forest.  I almost bought 20 acres on the dirt forest road (Coal Rd) a few years back....i should've done it.  I camp along forest road 42 off the road to Sherando.   
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 01, 2009, 10:39:56 pm
man i love that area.  If i could sell everything and move out there, i'd do it in a heartbeat...around the St Mary's wilderness and george washing nat'l forest.  I almost bought 20 acres on the dirt forest road (Coal Rd) a few years back....i should've done it.  I camp along forest road 42 off the road to Sherando.   

well im not far from there, sure love some help getin this 1977 lookin like my old one. 
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 01, 2009, 10:54:48 pm
next time I'm out there, i'll send ya a message.  I usually take the back way from the GW nat'l forest to howardsville turnpike and pass that old campground with a lake that is abandoned now and get to Stuarts Draft on 340 that way.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 02, 2009, 06:57:09 pm
next time I'm out there, i'll send ya a message.  I usually take the back way from the GW nat'l forest to howardsville turnpike and pass that old campground with a lake that is abandoned now and get to Stuarts Draft on 340 that way.

i appreicate it, can use all the help i can get. 
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: jdguthr1986 on October 03, 2009, 10:40:36 am
Mark me down for a donation as well. Sorry to hear of your loss. I pray you get that truck. Beautiful truck, BTW.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 03, 2009, 08:31:00 pm
Mark me down for a donation as well. Sorry to hear of your loss. I pray you get that truck. Beautiful truck, BTW.

hey i appreciate it , but seems gettin it back wont happen.  guy wont return calls so guess its over.  just trying work on my 1977 to make it a replica.   just need time and funding. but do appreciate all the offers, means alot
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 22, 2009, 09:25:23 pm
anyone close to stuart draft sure love some help on makin my 1977 into a replica of my 1973 i had when son was little

need help with timing,  any help greatly appreicated
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 23, 2009, 08:07:22 pm
heres a couple pics of my 1977
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: oldyeller on October 24, 2009, 09:42:15 am
Beautiful truck.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 24, 2009, 09:47:13 am
Beautiful truck.

thanks old yeller. now if i can find the time and money to make it an exact replica of my 1973 id be very happy.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 24, 2009, 10:43:41 am
Are those outlaw2 wheels?  I love that style.  Looking for some for my sub, 8 lugs as well. A lot of people have that style, but I like 'em. 
I won't be in the Stuarts Draft area 'til probably next spring when my camping trips start up again.  If you're still looking for a hand, I'll let you know when I come up there.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 24, 2009, 04:35:01 pm
Are those outlaw2 wheels?  I love that style.  Looking for some for my sub, 8 lugs as well. A lot of people have that style, but I like 'em. 
I won't be in the Stuarts Draft area 'til probably next spring when my camping trips start up again.  If you're still looking for a hand, I'll let you know when I come up there.

i think thats what wheels they are, really wanna find a set of chrome modulars so it will look like the 1973 but 16.5 wheels are gettin hard as heck to find.
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 24, 2009, 11:07:20 pm
I am trying to get rid of my 16.5 wheels/tires. I have two sets of them.  Gettin' harder to find rubber for them.

I'm going to get some 8 lug  16" outlaw2's for the sub.


http://www.wheelsforless.com/detail.aspx?ID=848 (http://www.wheelsforless.com/detail.aspx?ID=848)

www.delbridge.net/suburban
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 25, 2009, 03:52:55 pm
I am trying to get rid of my 16.5 wheels/tires. I have two sets of them.  Gettin' harder to find rubber for them.

I'm going to get some 8 lug  16" outlaw2's for the sub.


http://www.wheelsforless.com/detail.aspx?ID=848 (http://www.wheelsforless.com/detail.aspx?ID=848)

www.delbridge.net/suburban


what size 16.5 tires u have?
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 25, 2009, 10:18:20 pm
besides the set i have on my sub  now, my extra set is around 265 75 i think. 
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: olblue2 on October 25, 2009, 10:27:28 pm
besides the set i have on my sub  now, my extra set is around 265 75 i think. 

oh was hopin u had somethin in my size  35x12.50 x 16.5    think  next im gonna get a set of the hummer take offs 37x12.50r 16.5  see u can get em shipped on ebay for round $500
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: Lt.Del on October 26, 2009, 06:43:31 am
i have 33x12.5 on the sub now and i want to decrease that---a little tall for  3.73 ratios
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: bigandrich22 on June 01, 2010, 01:46:38 pm
hey any more news about it..did you ever get that guy to talk to you or sell you the truck or are you still fixing up the k20
Title: Re: help me find my old truck
Post by: heavychevy91 on June 02, 2010, 05:38:44 pm
yeah if theres anymore news i might be around lexington around the end of the month if you still need a hand workin on it