73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Diesel Engine Discussion => Engine/Drivetrain => Cummins Swaps => Topic started by: crewcabfred on January 08, 2010, 01:11:52 pm
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Been viewing this site for a while now, lots of great tech and interesting projects going on. Thought i would drop in and introduce myself. My name is Fred, i have a 1989 v3500 that i have repowered with a 12 valve cummins and nv4500 5speed. I recently upgraded to h2 wheels and 315 allterrains. I built it primarily to tow my rock buggy with. I have been driving with the swap for about 2 and half years now, but of course i still have plans for it that i will probably be working on forever! Otherwise, i am very happy with the way it has turned out so far. Anyways, here are a few pics.(have better pics somewhere but i cant find them, will up date when i do) Like i said, i have been on here for a while and have gotten lots of great information, tech and ideas for my truck, so i though i would contribute my project as well. -Fred
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/DSC00001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/DSC00002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/IIIBuggy012.jpg)
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Welcome from Texas. Nice truck and nice toy.
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Very nice truck, welcome to the site.
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NICE! I wanted that style hummer wheels for mine but the ones I got were CHEAP, so I got them instead.
Look forward to more pics!
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Awesome truck and welcome!
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Nice ride! You've got Cummins power and GM good looks!
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hears a few more from when i got it and a couple from the swap. Thanks for all the welcome's -Fred
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/crewcab-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/crew.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/chevycummins-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/DSC02200.jpg)
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Nice truck,love the colors.
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That's incredible! Is there information out there about that engine swap, or did you just figure this out yourself?
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there is some info out there, most of it on turbodieselregister.com under conversions, but for the most part i figured it out myself with the help of a couple of friend's ideas and wisdom.
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Awsome job... My buddy is building an 80 crewcab dually 2wd and putting a 12 valve in to tow his 86 swb 454 to show's/track. We might have some questions for you if you dont mind.. Love your truck.
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Awsome job... My buddy is building an 80 crewcab dually 2wd and putting a 12 valve in to tow his 86 swb 454 to show's/track. We might have some questions for you if you dont mind.. Love your truck.
sure no problem. Main thing I can tell you if y'all haven't started yet, is to get the motor as close to the firewall as possable, which might require you to dimple the firewall/tunnel to clear the top
two bellhousing bolts. This will help with The main fitting issue which is the clearence btw the fan and the radiator
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oh, ok... we will be sure to do that... thanks... Was this a frustrating swap?
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That is so sick, you must give away some details about that swap.
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that truck is awesome. i want a cummins in my truck that would be my dream come true. then with the extra gas mileage i would be able to drive my truck a lot more. love the truck
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oh, ok... we will be sure to do that... thanks... Was this a frustrating swap?
That is so sick, you must give away some details about that swap.
Here’s a quick rundown on the swap. Forgive the rough nature of the explanation: did it in a hurry but if anybody has any questions or would like me to elaborate on something I would be glad to answer.
It might be a little more difficult with a 2wd because of the engine crossmember and coil buckets. For me the most difficult thing was figuring out the radiator, innercooler, and ac condenser placement. On the 94-98.5 dodges(and probably through 2002) the radiator, innercooler, and condenser are all bolted together closely and neatly as a unit. I made my Gm radiator and condenser work for the swap, but i had to put the innercooler in place of the condenser, and remount the condenser in the front. If i had to do it allover again, i would just build the front of the truck to accommodate the dodge setup from the fan shroud to the condenser.
You can install a 1 inch body lift or raised hood to make the swap easier, but regardless of what some people say, it can be done with body in its stock form. i did.
2wd: you will have to do something with the coils , get some stiffer aftermarket ones or find some from another stock application that are stiffer
4wd: lift springs or have custom ones made to accommodate the extra weight.
ac compressor clearance. It will not clear the frame how it is. I had to make a cutout and beef the frame back up to clear. However, somebody has since then found a factory cummins application that come in some of kenworth’s smaller b series trucks that moves the compressor and alternator around to clear the frame and i dont think it is that expensive. I can find the part number it is somewhere out the on the internet.
alternator: the dodge one sucks!!! another thing i would do differently. The standard old gm alternator like the one that came on the truck originally is self regulating, and works a lot better that the dodge one that requires a regulator, and a ton of wiring. From 1991.5 and up, the dodge alternators were regulated by the ecm. I did not want to use the giant ecm just to use it as a regulator, so i bought the external firewall mounted ones that came on dodge trucks in the 80s. Unfortunately these regulators are also NOTORIOUS for breaking. i have gone through 4 so far. There is also a stock cummins mount (or make one) that uses that gm style alternator, then all you do is have to find a pulley that works. I strongly suggest using the gm alternator. If you do use the dodge one, dont use the dodge regulator like i did.
fuel, drop tanks and clean. run fuel lines to cummins supply pump.
wiring: if using a engine from a 1989-1993 dodge, with a rotary pump, simply hook up ignition hot to the hold solenoid and done
however, if you are using a engine from 94-98.5 with a p7100 inline pump, their is a relay that operates a pull and then hold function on the fuel shutoff solenoid. This has to be hooked up correctly or it can catch on fire so i hear. Mine hasn't caught fire so i think i got it right lol. Starter just hooks up with same wire, i just had to shorten it to clean it up.
hydroboost. If the pick up has hydroboost brakes, just take off the reservoir can from the chevy powersteering pump and put it on the dodge. Then you get the extra return port for the hydroboost (the cummins uses the same saginaw pump as gm or at lease its similar and the reservoir fits)
vacuum: if the chevy has a vacuum booster for the brakes, the cummins has a vacuum pump right inline with the powersteering pump, simply hook it up to the booster. Otherwise, just use the vacuum pump to operate the gm ac controls in the cab.
transmission crossmember: stock one and mount worked for me on my nv4500, just moved it back and re drilled the holes, and shorted the intermediate driveshaft.
If u use a standard transmission
Getrag transmission: came on 89-93 notorious for coming apart btw the 4 friends i have that own first gen dodge cummins that have all replaced theirs, one even twice. Nothing you can really do to fix them
Nv4500 Transmission: came on 94 and up. notorious for the fifth gear falling off the main shaft. Can be fixed with a upgraded fifth gear locking nut. otherwise great transmission.
clutch: i used the dodge slave cylinder and a ford master and line from a early 90s f350. you can also go with universal aftermarket parts which will cost more but is a cleaner looking and working alternative.
Engines:
early 89-93 engines are good and inexpensive
94-98.5 are great! the inline pump design allows for much more power. The motors come with much more power stock as well. These motors were available with 4 different horsepower from the factory depending on year and transmissions. I have the highest one stock at 215. i have also bumped the fuel plate and advanced the time which has gave it quite a boost.
24 valves and HPCR(High pressure common rail) engines. Same issues as far as fitting, just much more wiring being that they are electronic.
DOWEL PIN! there is a dowel pin in the front gear case of these motors which can rattle loose and destroy the motor. Research dowel pin on cummins it will come up allover the place.
motor mounts: some people build and sell them. I would make them personally that way you know the motor will be placed in the truck where you want it.
you will have to trim the very front xmember the clear the harmonic balancer
ac lines: save all parts from the factory set up on the dodge and chevy as they might be used when having a shop build new lines for the truck
sound deadening: They are loud! too loud. while the motor is out i would recommend spaying bed liner, undercoating, or lizard skin sound deadening on the firewall to cut down on the noise.
im sure there is something i forgot to mention, just ask I enjoy helping.
-Fred
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awesome info! Thanks for sharing!
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Great Information :)
I am looking to putting a 96 12V with an NV4500 in My 84 1 Ton 2wd.
Question: With the NV4500 not having a Speedo Gear how did you get the speedo to work@, is the a box to buy or something?
Thanks Again
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well i have a 4wd and the speedo gear is in the transfercase so i was home free.
I think 2wd nv4500's do have a a speedo gear if im not mistaken. They sell the replacement parts for them hear:
http://quad4x4.com
and
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/nv4500.htm
Call high impact and they will tell you what to do they have been very helpful in the past.
Gm used the transmissions as well starting in 1992 (everybody will tell you 1993, but my dads 92 has one)
You can do custom configurations with the transmission being that many of the parts enterchange. For example i have a dodge nv4500 with a gm output shaft installed to work with my gm transfercase.
Im sure there is a way to make your setup work
Hope this helps -Fred
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Thanks for the Info :)
It would probably jest be easier to pick up a VSS Dash assembly out of a 90 - 91 Suburban?
Thanks
Dan
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Sounds like something to look it too... News to me ;D i wasent even aware a 90-91 sub had a vss. Learn something new everyday i guess.
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how about that rock buggy?
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buggy is still not finished here are some wheeling pictures http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=61289&id=502534028&l=9501ce6654. It is built from the ground up out of dom tubing. 4 link from and rear and held up by air shocks. I will try get some more recent pics of it. It now has a jeep hood and grill on it and looks a lot more complete
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crewcabfred....
Thank you for all the info and advise.. we havent started the swap yet (just put the bags in).. but i printed your info for my buddy to look over before we start... we will let you know when we begin and hopefully we dont run into too many problems... talk to ya soon.
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buggy is still not finished here are some wheeling pictures http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=61289&id=502534028&l=9501ce6654. It is built from the ground up out of dom tubing. 4 link from and rear and held up by air shocks. I will try get some more recent pics of it. It now has a jeep hood and grill on it and looks a lot more complete
that thing is really awesome, its nice to see some custom tubework, up here in bew england its few and far between, but my brother and i are trying to hold the fabrication legacy.good stuff
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Man that's awesome stuff! The more I read on this swap, the harder it seems, but the more I'm ready to try it!
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Man that's awesome stuff! The more I read on this swap, the harder it seems, but the more I'm ready to try it!
I agree, it looks tempting
You are agreeing with yourself....-Admin.
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It is a rewarding swap for sure. But like i said earlier. If you are going to drive it daily go overboard with the sound deadning inside and out! The noise is my only complaint, that and the fact that people keep flagging me down asking if i want to sell it........
The swap isnt really that difficult. The main thing is to have everything you are going need for the swap right there the first time.
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bad swap!!!! I'm planing on a cummins swap in my 74 2wd crewcab some day. First on the list is the 4wd conversion, any tips or tricks I can use during my 2wd to 4wd conversion that would help my cummins switch later? ..........or maybe i should do both at once..........
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bad swap!!!! I'm planing on a cummins swap in my 74 2wd crewcab some day. First on the list is the 4wd conversion, any tips or tricks I can use during my 2wd to 4wd conversion that would help my cummins switch later? ..........or maybe i should do both at once..........
definitely do them both at once if possible... driveshafts, shifter(s) placement, spring rates, tranmission x member, and other things im sure im forgetting will change with the swap.
You also would really need to swap in a dana 60 front axle to hold up to the extra weight of the cummins and the crewcab.
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Your truck is awesome! Excellent seeing you post up some details on how you did it also! Thanks for sharing!
Cya
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Nice truck man...my friend CampCRF was talking to you about the swap and printed out your tips for me...thanks eh. Yeah im planning on starting it this weekend but thats providing i get a transmission mount. Do you have a close up picture on how you made you engine mounts? Ive got an ideal in mind but always looking for additional info. Im going to post both my truck on the members rides check them out some time...
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Nice truck man...my friend CampCRF was talking to you about the swap and printed out your tips for me...thanks eh. Yeah im planning on starting it this weekend but thats providing i get a transmission mount. Do you have a close up picture on how you made you engine mounts? Ive got an ideal in mind but always looking for additional info. Im going to post both my truck on the members rides check them out some time...
Ok heres the deal with my motor mounts.... i mentioned earlier in the run down that it would be ideal to make your own motor mounts to insure proper placement. Another reason that i didn't mention is one that i learned from experience. Buying parts from people off the internet can be a pita.........apparently......When i started the swap i bought the motor mounts and some other conversion parts from a person who had done the swap in a truck like mine and was selling his parts. The motor mounts were good. The rest of the parts were not, and some got lost in the mail and other complications arose, in the end i was out several hundred dollars.
The person i bought them from is most likely a member on this board and i dont feel comfortable posting pictures of them on here.
I can tell you however that it is just a piece of 3/8" plate that bolts to the four holes on the block with two tabs made out of 1/4" that come down and accept the factory gm motor mounts.
Another way you could try is using the stock mounts off of a 94+ cummins and weld tabs coming off the frame of your Chevy to accept the stock dodge mounts. I have been told however that the frame is too narrow on the chevy which could very well be true, but i personally have not tried it.
Sry about this, hope it still helps, feel free to ask me anything if you get stuck. -Fred
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now that i think about it. I remember being told that the stock cummins\dodge mounts will work on a 2wd but not a 4wd. I would mock the motor in there with the stock dodge mounts and see if it will work. Im sure the stock cummins mounts would hold up better..... If they do fit, then all you have to do is build some tabs just like the ones on the truck your motor came out of and weld them to the frame and done...
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yeah ive been a victim to buying from other people aswell at a ton of money on my 86 short box....But ive got a drawing done up for my mounts when i get them done"hopefuly this weekend" ill post them up if they work well enough i might even make a few sets and sell them...
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Cool. Do that im intrested in see some other designs. If you do make and sell them, dont leave sharp corners on them, send them in a used thin cardboard box wraped in tape and filled with paper, and DONT send them USPS.......lol. Im still mad about that.
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that is aweomse.. well if ya cant get a duramax in there a cummins will do the trick... you did a nice job on your truck i like the rims... i bet i could put a cummins in my 84 k5 hmmm dang this site gets me in trouble with the misses lol
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Can you take some detailed photos of your throttle set up as well as you clutch slave cylinder Please :)
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Ok i wi try to get u some tommaro have to locate my camera. My master and hyd line to the slave is from a 90s model f350. The slave is from a 96 dodge. The stock chevy master is real small. I used the ford master and li e because it uses the roll pin style fitti gs on the line like the dodge one. A nother option For the line is to get some rollpin to a/n adapters and make a line. To use the ford master i had to egg out the hole on the monting plate on the ford master slightly. You also have to extend the rod the fastens to the clutch pedal. Sry this post is so sketchy im typing it on my phone
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looks like I could nearly park my Fiero under that thing on the trailer. cool.
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/P1010129.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/P1010130.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/P1010137.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/P1010135.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/k5fred/P1010136.jpg)
For the throttle i cut a mount off an old chevy tbi motor i had and mounted it to accept the square on the cable i dont know what the cable is from i think it is jeep. someone gave it to me
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Thanks for posting the photos :) I was worried about the throttle cable, I had to remove the factory bracket to install my new alternator bracket and was wondering what I could use. The roll pin to AN adapter is a great idea, I wonder if a good hyd shop would be able to make me a line?
Thanks
Again for the info
Dan
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A hyd shop could probably make it. I would assume they would be 3 a/n. What i have been doing for things like that is making them out of tfe teflon braided stainless line from summit. The brand is areoquip. It is expensive but you can make your oil pressure gauge line, boost gauge line, hyd line ect... Out of it and it looks really clean. The tfe teflon line can also be used for brakes. that stuff is all over my rock buggy so i can testify that it holds up. You just by the fittings, cut the line to length, then install the ends.
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do you have a part number for that master cylinder? Do you know the bore and stroke or fluid displacement of it?
Thanks and again, thanks for sharing!