73-87chevytrucks.com
General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: Redneckchevy on February 10, 2010, 03:55:28 pm
-
1997 k1500 4.3
Replaced 8-4 months ago
Dist
Coil
Cap/rotter
Plugs wires
air filter
fuel filter
alternator
Ok So there i was driving home...Had the radio on..So i didn't here it happen...What i did hear was a small clunk or back fire.
Wouldn't start or 30min When it did start it would barely run and i had to give it gas it smoothed out..And felt under powered made it home...Checked for spark. All is fine Put my Snap on scanner on it no codes no misfire nothing.didn't check fuel pressure yet....and i no i have a small intake leak i use maybe 1 cup of coolant every two weeks but the strange thing is i have water coming out of my tail pipe truck is warmed up but outside is 10 degrees Any help would be great i just don't no why it would stop running if it was the fuel pump why would it even start? after it shut off i turned the key on and off 5 times and nothing then i did it again 20mins later....and held the gas all the way down and it started
-
i also have a 96 W/T 4.3 2wd...130,000. recently it had the same problem. would run like absolute dog duke...ecspecially when it rained. changed fuel pump just to be safe.. also my exhaust sounded rattly, found out my cat was junk, and honeycombs were rotting & falling & plugging it up, i should have replaced the cat... but i didnt, just put a test pipe inplace of it, also replaced the o2 sensors... it helped greatly but still had a slight misfire. so i changed the cap and rotor and now it runs like a raped ape! i dont know if this will help but maby look and hear for an exhaust problem...?
-
check your fuel pressure
-
Yep, Vile was right when I had that EXACT symptoms on a 95 G20 I was working on for my brother-in-law. Turned out to be the in-tank fuel pump.
-
it sounds like its the cat almost would bet on it. any smell? but I would check the fuel pressure like vile said if that's ok I would cut the pipe before the cat and see what it does. my brothers 89 irock did the same thing one day if he let it cool (30 min )it would run but like crap. after cuttung the pipe all was fine
-
Ok so i did the pressure check im at 57...With Wot im at 62psi...Turn key off i drop to 47psi...Going to let it sit for an hour and see if it drops more...Came home from work and it wouldn't start so i turned key on and off.....Then i had to pump the peddle to start it....Ok so i have a snap on mt2500 scanner...I did a injector pulse test...1..didn't drop....2..10psi drop 3...10 psi drop..4..no drop....5...10psi drop....6....no drop...does this mean them injectors that didnt drop are bad? or is there a sensor to replace? it has them stupid spider injectors and i dont want to pull the upper intake off to take a chance
-
Ok so my injectors are bad....Going to do the $299.99 spider injector upgrade...And replace the leaking manifold....But what i cant find no ware is that bad injectors can make it stall out....Did find out that it can make my truck hard to start.....But come on...Stall out and that hard to start? Has to be more wrong with it then just my injectors..Right????
-
vile...hint hint :) little help?
-
Do you currently have CSFI or MFI? and yes if it is the injector poppets sticking it can cause your condition.
-
CSFI but im buying new injectors should i upgrade to the MFI?
-
Have you read the TSB on it?
-
no....But im going to...if i can find it
-
Fuel System - MIL ON/Rough Idle on Start-Up
Notes
File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System
Bulletin No.: 00-06-04-003B
Date: February, 2003
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Rough Idle After Start, And/Or A Service Engine Soon (SES) Light
(Unstick And Clean Central Sequential Fuel Injection (CSFI) Poppet
Valves or Convert to MFI)
Models:
1995-2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Models
1996-2002 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, G, P Models
1996-2001 Oldsmobile Bravada
1999-2000 Cadillac Escalade
with 4.3L, 5.0L or 5.7L Engine (VINS W, X, M, R - RPOs L35, LF6, L30, L31)
Except 2002 VIN X - RPO LU3 Models
This bulletin is being revised to update the Warranty Information. Please discard previous copies of Corporate Bulletin Number 00-06-04-003B with warranty chart (Section 06 - Engine). This copy is for Dealers in the state of CALIFORNIA ONLY.
Condition
Some customers may comment on rough idle after start-up, especially if the vehicle has sat overnight. These symptoms may be intermittent. The Service Engine Soon (SES) light may also be illuminated. Current misfire or history misfire codes may be detected with the Tech 2 scan tool.
Cause
A deposit build-up on the CSFI poppet valve ball and/or seat may cause the poppet ball to stick open or closed. In either case, the specific cylinder will be mis-fueled, resulting in a cylinder mis-fire condition.
Correction
A new injector unsticking and cleaning process has proven to be effective in restoring poppet valves to an "as new" condition. CSFI injector replacement should NOT be considered as a correction for this customer concern.
Check the vehicle history to determine if the vehicle is returning for a second fuel system repair for this condition. If the fuel system has been repaired for this condition previously, then inform the customer that an alternate fix is available. A new MFI fuel system has been developed that will back service the CSFI fuel system. The MFI fuel system eliminates the CSFI poppet valve ball and seat. The CSFI fuel system will need to be replaced as a unit. Refer to Central SFI to MFI Conversion instructions in this bulletin.
Notice : Individual CSFI injectors can not be replaced with MFI injectors. The entire CSFI fuel meter body will need to be replaced. The bracket used to retain the injectors in the fuel meter body is different between the CSFI and MFI unit. The unit may not seal if you mix injectors. Severe engine damage could result.
Cleaning the CSFI injectors is the preferred repair. The CSFI unit should not be replaced until cleaning has been attempted. If the vehicle should return for the same repair, then the CSFI unit can be replaced with an MFI unit. If the vehicle is out of warranty, the customer should be given the option of which fix to pursue.
Important : "GM of Canada" dealers require District Service Manager approval prior to replacing the CSFI unit with a MFI unit under warranty.
The first step of this process is to use the J 41413 Evap Pressure/Purge Station, in conjunction with the J 44466-10 pressure regulator/hose assembly, to provide the required high pressure (150 psi) source to perform the unsticking procedure. The J 39021 fuel injector tester and accessories provide the means to "energize" the injector. Some later model-year vehicles may utilize the Tech 2(R) to "energize" the injectors.
The second step of this process is to run the engine on a solution of 10% Top Engine Cleaner and 90% gasoline. This will effectively clean any deposits from the ball and seats of the poppets. It is very important that the engine fuel system is separated from the vehicle fuel system. Top Engine Cleaner may have detrimental effects on the fuel pump.
Parts Information
Cleaning Procedure Parts
CSFI to MFI Conversion Parts
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
Warranty Information
Important : Some California vehicles may be covered by Special Policy 99066E if built with California Emissions RPO YF5. If the vehicle is covered by the special policy, then that warranty information should be used.
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use information contained in Special Policy 99066E.
-
. Loosen the fuel filler cap to relieve vapor pressure in the fuel tank.
2. Remove the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) clean air tube from the air inlet tube and set aside.
3. Remove the bonnet and inlet tube from the throttle body.
4. Remove the brake booster vacuum hose and connector from the intake manifold.
5. Remove the electrical connector from the CSFI fuel metering body.
6. Remove ignition wires 1, 3, 5, and 7 from the distributor cap.
7. Remove the fuel line bolt (4) at the rear of the intake manifold.
8. Relieve the fuel system pressure at the service fitting on the fuel line. Use a shop towel to contain any fuel that may exit the service fitting.
9. Remove the nuts (1) and clamp (2) from the fuel pipe.
10. Remove the fuel pipes from the metering body. Be careful not to disturb the O-rings, washer, and spacer in the metering body.
11. Install the J 44466-12 (2) and the J 44466-13 (1) to the metering body and tighten. Make sure that the fuel pipe 0-rings, washer, and spacers are present and in their proper position.
12. Install the J 44466-11 (4), clamp (2), and J 44466-13 (1) to the fuel pipe and tighten.
13. Obtain the J 41413, close the valve (2) on the tank, and remove the regulator assembly.
14. Install the J 44466-10 (5) to the J 41413 tank (3). The J 44466-10 regulator is preset to 150 psi.
15. Connect the J 44466-10 hose (1) to the J 44466-12 (3).
16. Install the J 39021 Injector/Coil Balance Tester, the J 39021-210 Injector Tester Adapter Box, and J 39021-301 V6 Fuel Injector Test Adapter (1) or J 39021-302 V8 Fuel Injector Test Adapter to the metering body electrical connector.
17. Adjust the amperage selector switch on J 39021 to 0.5 amps.
18. Open the valve (2) on the tank (3).
19. Open the valve (4) on the J 44466-10 to pressurize the fuel system. The minimum pressure required on the gauge (6) is 150 psi. If 150 psi is not obtained, the tank (3) must be refilled prior to performing this procedure.
20. Close the valve (4) on the J 44466-10.
21. Energize one injector using the J 39021. Observe a pressure drop on the gauge (6) and verity the injector/poppet valve operation. An injector/poppet that is "stuck" and not operational will have no pressure drop on the gauge. It an injector remains "stuck", repeat the procedure multiple times (as required) until the injector is operational.
22. Repeat Steps 19, 20 and 21 for each individual injector to verify that all injector/poppet valve assemblies are "unstuck" and functional.
23. Shut off pressure valve (2) on the tank (3) of the J 41413.
24. Bleed off the pressure at the J 44466-10.
25. Disconnect and remove the J 44466-10 (5) from the J 44466-12, and the J 41413.
26. Remove the J 39021-301 or J 39021-302, J 39021-210, and J 39021 from the metering body.
27. Install the vehicle electrical connector to the metering body.
28. Install the brake booster vacuum hose and connector to the intake manifold.
29. Install ignition wires 1, 3, 5, and 7 to the distributor cap.
30. Install the air inlet bonnet 10 the throttle body, tighten the wing-nut.
31. Install the PCV fresh air tube to the air inlet tube.
32. Obtain J 35800-A (2). Make sure the valve at the bottom of the canister (3) is closed.
33. Remove the canister top and add 24 ml (0.8 fl. oz.) Top Engine Cleaner, P/N 1050002 (Canada P/N 992872), to the canister.
34. Fill the remainder of the canister with regular unleaded gasoline and install the canister top.
35. Suspend J 35800-A from a convenient underhood location.
36. Connect the hose from J 35800-A to the service port on the J 44466-12
37. Open the valve (3) at the bottom of J 35800-A.
38. Connect a "shop air" source to the fitting at the top of J 35800-A and adjust the regulator (1) to 75 psi.
39. Start the vehicle. It may be necessary to re-adjust the J 35800-A pressure regulator to maintain 75 psi.
40. Let the vehicle run at idle until the canister is empty and the vehicle stalls.
41. Remove the shop air supply from J 35800-A.
42. Depressurize the J 35800-A.
43. Disconnect the J 35800-A hose from the J 44466-12.
44. Remove the PCV clean air tube from the air inlet tube and set aside.
45. Remove the bonnet from the throttle body, and set aside.
46. Remove ignition wires 1, 3, 5, and 7 from the distributor cap.
47. Remove the brake booster vacuum hose and connector from the intake manifold.
48. Bleed the residual pressure from the J 44466-12.
49. Remove J 44466-13 (1) and J 44466-12 (2) from the metering body.
50. Remove J 44466-13 (1), clamp (2), and J 44466-11 (4), from the fuel pipe (3).
51. Install the fuel pipe (3) to the metering body. Make sure that all of the 0-rings (6 and 8), washers (7), and spacers (5) are present and in their proper position.
52. Install the clamp (2) and nuts (1).
Tighten
Tighten the nuts to 3 N.m (27 lb in).
53. Apply threadlock, P/N 12345382, or equivalent to the threads of the fuel pipe bolt (4). Install the bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the fuel pipe bolt to 6 N.m (53 lb in).
54. Install the brake booster vacuum hose and connector to the intake manifold.
55. Install the bonnet and air inlet tube to the throttle body.
56. Install the PCV fresh air tube to the inlet duct.
57. Install ignition wires 1, 3, 5 (7) to the distributor cap.
58. Add one (1) ounce of Port Fuel Injector Cleaner, P/N 12345104 (Canada P/N 10953467), to the vehicle fuel tank for each gallon of gasoline estimated to be in the tank. Instruct the customer to add the remainder of the bottle of Port Fuel Injector Cleaner to the vehicle fuel tank at the next fill-up. Further recommend that Port Fuel Injector Cleaner be added to the fuel tank every 3000 miles (4800 km) particularly if the vehicle is not started and driven every day. Inform the customer that the Port Fuel Injector Cleaner is not to be used at every fill up but may be reapplied every 3000 miles (4800 km).
59. Tighten the fuel tank filler cap.
60. Start the vehicle and check for fuel leaks.
61. Using the Tech 2(R) scan tool, check for any stored Powertrain DTC codes. Clear codes as required.
62. Disconnect the Tech 2(R) Scan tool.
63. Advise the customer to change brands of fuel.
-
Conversion to MFI
Central SFI to MFI Conversion Instructions
Notes
This procedure outlines the steps required to replace the existing Central SFI Fuel System with a new MFI (Multiport Flexible Injection) Fuel System. Be sure to use the appropriate year and model Service Manual for proper disassembly and re-assembly procedure(s).
Important : Cleaning the CSFI injectors is the preferred repair. The CSFI unit should not be replaced until cleaning has been attempted. If the vehicle should return for the same repair, then the CSFI unit can be replaced with a MFI unit. If the vehicle is out of warranty, the customer should be given the option of which fix to pursue.
V6 Engines
1. Remove Upper Intake Manifold plenum and SFI Fuel Meter Body according to Service Manual Procedures.
2. Remove the Fuel Meter Body bracket and discard. Install the new bracket as shown in Figure 1.
3. Position Fuel Tubes of MFI Fuel Meter Body as shown in Figure 2. Tubes must be oriented away from the fuel pressure regulator end of the fuel meter body.
Notice :The number 3 Fuel Tube must be positioned behind the number 1 Fuel Tube to eliminate interference with the Upper Intake Manifold plenum when installed. See Figure 2.
4. Insert the MFI Fuel Meter Body into the Fuel Meter Body Bracket on the Lower Intake Manifold being careful not to bind the Fuel Tubes. Make sure that the number three Fuel Tube is routed in behind number 1 and 5 Fuel Tubes as shown in Figure 2. Push down firmly on the fuel meter body locking it into the bracket.
Notice :Use caution when inserting injectors into lower intake manifold to be sure the correct injector is being placed into the correct hole.
Injectors should not be removed once they have been installed.
Removal of injectors from the intake manifold may cause damage to the retaining lugs on the injector.
Important : The Injector holes are numbered on the Lower Intake Manifold. The injectors are numbered on the side of the Fuel Meter Body.
5. Insert the number 3 injector into the correct Injector hole in the Lower Intake Manifold first. Install the number 5 injector next and then number 1. This sequence must be followed correctly to prevent interference of the Fuel Tubes. Injectors 2, 4, and 6 are then installed.
6. Insure that the electrical connectors of the injectors are positioned so that they do not interfere with each other and are pointing towards the center of the Intake Manifold. If necessary, rotate the electrical connectors inboard.
Notice : Lack of lubrication will make installation of the Upper Intake Manifold plenum difficult and may cause damage to the 0-ring.
7. Lubricate the Fuel Meter Body Upper Manifold 0-ring (orange in color) with clean engine oil.
8. Inspect the Upper Intake Manifold plenum gasket and replace if necessary. Reinstall the Upper Intake Manifold plenum following the procedures outlined in the Service Manual.
Important : Lubricate the Fuel Inlet and Return Lines with clean engine oil before inserting them into the Fuel Meter Body.
Make sure that the Fuel Line Retaining Bracket is properly oriented with the tabs down.
V8 Engines
This procedure outlines the steps required to replace the existing Central SFI Fuel System with a new MFI (Multipoint Flexible Injection) Fuel System. Be sure to use the appropriate year and model Service Manual for proper disassembly and re-assembly procedure(s).
1. Remove Upper Intake Manifold plenum and SFI Fuel Meter Body according to Service Manual Procedures.
2. Remove the Fuel Meter Body bracket and discard. Install the new bracket.
3. Position Fuel Tubes of MFI Fuel Meter Body as shown in Figure 3. Fuel tubes 1, 3, 5, and 7 are oriented toward the fuel inlet side of the fuel meter body. Fuel tubes 2, 4, 6, and 8 are oriented toward the fuel pressure regulator side if the fuel meter body.
4. Insert the MFI Fuel Meter Body into the Fuel Meter Body Bracket on the Lower Intake Manifold being careful not to bind the Fuel Tubes. Push down firmly on the fuel meter body until the tabs snap into the bracket locking the fuel meter body in place.
5. Orient the fuel tubes to coincide with their corresponding cylinder. The fuel tubes are numbered on the side of the fuel meter body and the corresponding cylinder number is cast in the intake manifold.
Notice :Use caution when inserting injectors into lower intake manifold to be sure the correct injector is being placed into the correct hole.
Injectors should not be removed once they have been installed.
Removal of injectors from the intake manifold may cause damage to the retaining lugs on the injector.
Important :The Injector holes are numbered on the Lower Intake Manifold. The injectors are numbered on the side of the Fuel Meter Body.
6. Insert the fuel tubes into their corresponding holes in the intake manifold. Install tubes for cylinders 1, 3, 6 and 8 making sure that the injector electrical connectors are facing in toward the center of the manifold.
7. Insert fuel tubes for cylinders 2, 4, 5, and 7 in the same manner.
Important :When installing fuel tubes, it is important that the tubes are oriented properly to provide minimal interference when installing the upper intake manifold plenum. Intake holes for cylinders 2, 4, 5, and 7 are closer to the fuel meter body. It is necessary to cross tube 5 over tube 7 and tube 4 over tube 2 as shown in Figure 4.
Notice :Lack of lubrication will make installation of the Upper Intake Manifold plenum difficult and may cause damage to the 0-ring.
8. Lubricate the Fuel Meter Body Upper Manifold 0-ring (blue in color) with clean engine oil.
9. Inspect Upper Intake Manifold Gasket and replace if necessary. Reinstall the Upper Intake Manifold plenum following the procedures in the Service Manual.
Important :Lubricate the Fuel Inlet and Return Lines with clean engine oil before inserting them in the of the Fuel Meter Body.
Make sure that Fuel Line Retaining Bracket is properly oriented with the tabs down.
-
As always i thank you..If not for you and the others on this site im pretty sure i would of lost it a cpl times and bought a new truck.....On the upside the install went well...The intake didn't give me no prob....The injector upgrade was easy..Thanks to the TSB...Down side it i broke the EGR tube...Was locked up and twisted and snapped...So truck wont run for a while....Gives the RTV time to set...So ill let it set and wait for the part...Thanks again for the help..
-
dang i hope that was a cut and past lol
-
Went to the junk yard and broke 3 more of them trying to get them off...Dealer wants $150
Said no to that...Bought one on ebay for $30 And all it is ..is a flex pipe....Like whats on a gas dryer...With a nylon looking heat wrap around it....So o well...Make the best of it while im down this fare i but no valve cover gaskets on it...Bought a new timing chain and water pump...Its my daily driver so i want to get all the "ware" items replaced now instead of having another head ache down the road..Do have one more question tho...While valve covers wear off...I checked my rockers...And there all a little lose....The set nuts are tight...But i can spin the push rods...I don't hear any tapping or anything...But is that normal ware? i think i have a roller cam....So any ideas?