73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Projects Posts (NOT VEHICLES) => Topic started by: HAULIN IT on February 12, 2010, 05:22:23 pm
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This should help! ;D Details to follow. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TURBO002.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TURBO003.jpg)
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How is a can of Pepsi going to make you go faster??
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I think he is talking about that industrial blow dryer... ;D
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Its the caffeine in the Pepsi! Red bull gives you wings, Pepsi gets you spooled up!
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I'll be watching
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You guys gotta have H/R mag do a write up on this! Your truck is awesome and a turbo is the bomb!
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I'm planning on a twin turbo for my stepside next year....details please!
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T4? How are you going to manage fuel? I've done some turbo setups on fuel injection but never on a carb setup. Just curious on how it's done...
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You better keep us posted on this! You have my attention! I figured I could either swap my motor or turbo the little Ramjet 350 if possible... gotta go - too much drool on the keyboard!
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wow you deff got ma attention :o ill be watching this one, be sure to take lots of pics and explain what you did how you did it and where any and all parts come from 8)
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Guys, Here's the basics of the plan. The truck is going to be a rolling testbed for my turbo set-up since it is in one piece & has been tested a bit at the track. I've been researching & gathering parts for over a year now...real fab progress won't start for another month or Two
due to being crazy busy at work.
The turbo engine is actually for my '73 Vega that I bought in the summer of '87. It's been in the back corner of my garage since '89.
I'm going to build the headers/hotside, coldside, ect. in the Vega then transplant it all to the truck for testing. As long as Chris doesn't mind some "car" underhood shots on here, I'll post the build as it goes together...otherwise once it's in the truck you'll see pic's.
The engine is a basic steel crank, forged rods/piston 355 Chevy, the turbo is a T-6 based Bullseye Performance 80mm. I'm working on a Holley 750, modifying for blow-through. That's about it for now...should make the "Black Box" a little quicker :D Lorne
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i know you are planning on blowthru, but the other thing i wanted someone to investigate is the system they used on the 80-81ish transam---not the later GNX engine, but the first transam turbo system.
It may be worth a look. i would do it myself, as i feel this is the "ticket" for carbed turbo setups(not saying other styles wont work..), but i don't have the time. i may eventually get to it, but i would have to win the lottery at this point.
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You got it backwards...The blow-through is the "ticket" for carbs. The draw-through has been abandoned by just about everyone doing performace turbo set-ups. The big problem with those systems is keeping the fuel in suspension throughout the intake tract. What is it about the draw-through that would make you feel it is superior? I assure you, that thinking isn't accurate. ;) Lorne
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Agreed, it's pretty amazing that companies aren't blasting out turbo systems at this point since the technology is there and the cost is fairly cheap.
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You can post anything you want!
You are a much braver man than I. I won't touch a turbo'd carb motor.
You definitely want blow-through though.
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That's so cool! Blow-through makes total sense. Don't blame GM though for trying draw-through on the very under-whelming turbo V8 Trans Ams. Turbo's and carbs had not been tried too much by the domestics prior to then, save for the turbo V6 Regal and Monte's of the late 70's and then the early 60's Olds Jetfire and Corvair. Speaking of, those Jetfires were pretty cool. Turbo aluminum V8, wastegate, alcohol injection (Turbo Rocket Fluid). Pretty far out there for early 60's.
Blow-throughs can benefit from intercooling and as mentioned, the shortest possible path from the introduction of fuel to the combustion chamber. About the only downside is the carb is postively pressurized, increasing the importance of gasket and orifice sealing.
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Cool project.
But I have always been under the impression that carb'd turbo setups aren't popular because they are rather tricky to tune, as it is difficult to coordinate the fuel curve with the non-linear boost curve of a turbo. Centrifugal blow-through setups, on the other hand, are extremely popular presumably because of a very linear boost curve.
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You mean centrifugal blowers? They operate very similar to turbo (as opposed to say a roots or screw-type positive displacement blower) by building more boost with more RPM. I suppose a turbo would be more non-linear than say a Vortech blower since it's not belt driven but both are more inherently non-linear than a roots-type blower due to their centrifugal compressors.
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both are more inherently non-linear than a roots-type blower due to their centrifugal compressors.
What I meant was centrifugals build boost with rpm without any need to spool up, making them easier to tune than a turbo. Once they build boost, yes they do it in a "positive-slope" linear fashion, but the lag period creates a major hicuup in the curve. Roots build boost in a "constant" linear fashion. "Positive-slope" linear is what I meant in my previous post. :P :P :P
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Correct me if I'm wrong... I believe that a boost/vacuum dependent fuel pressure regulator is used to increase fuel pressure depending on boost. It increases fuel pressure depending on the boost pressure of the turbo. The one that i had used for a fuel injected setup needed a fuel return line. Not sure how you set it up with a carburetor...
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Yes you would want a boost referenced regulator, but I am talking about the fuel curve that the carb delivers, not proper delivery of fuel to the carb.
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both are more inherently non-linear than a roots-type blower due to their centrifugal compressors.
What I meant was centrifugals build boost with rpm without any need to spool up, making them easier to tune than a turbo. Once they build boost, yes they do it in a "positive-slope" linear fashion, but the lag period creates a major hicuup in the curve. Roots build boost in a "constant" linear fashion. "Positive-slope" linear is what I meant in my previous post. :P :P :P
lol "postive-slope linear". Did you make that up? C'mon now. :P I kid, I kid.
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Guys, Yes a boost referenced regulator to raise the fuel pressure as boost comes up is part of the equation. Of coarse there is much more to it with the "fuel curve" as was mentioned.
People have come up with some pretty unique ideas for this...some include: one injector in the charge tube (with a pressure switch) that sprays at 100% once the engine comes into boost, fuel solenoid/jets from a nitrous kit & the most popular method...modifying the carbs "power enrichment" circut to flow much more fuel than originally designed. Some means of control (boost, co2, air, electric, ect.) seem to be the better working systems.
I'm sure (as with anything new) there will be quite a learning process.
One BIG advantage for me & others at this point, is that (like this site) many people that have made the in-road are very willing to help.
I've been building the carb for a couple months (hobbie time has been a minimum due to work, family activities & SNOW removal) with the help of some great guys. Here is a photo of the metering blocks, I paid a fellow (Brent Davis) to do them...He has been a big help to many with blow-through set-ups. I felt that for the money he charged, it was a good plan for my first attempt & also "gives" him a few bucks for something he likes to do, sort of a "Thank You" for being there.
The power valves are modified & will be controlled by air, the restriction channels opened up conciderably...this allows a more "normal" jet to be used so the engine runs correctly out of boost, among other mods.
That's all for now, Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TURBO.jpg)
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Can't wait to see how it works out for you.
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With an hour here & there, I got the carb built! I can't take any credit for the designing/planning of what & how to make the carb work under boost. Brent Davis came up with pressurizing the power valve cavities that originally used vacuum to hold the power valve shut...now the air will push them open. Not much to look at & but let's hope it works!
You can see in the photos (Red carb cleaner straws) where I drilled through the main body to make "air passages" & where the body is threaded for the external fitting for the air hose. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/blow-throughcarb003-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/blow-throughcarb002-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/blow-throughcarb012-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/blow-throughcarb011-1.jpg)
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I built a blow through big block twin turbo setup for my 72 vette three years ago and it is working out good. I still need to do a little more tuning on the carb for off boost fuel economy but its very driveable and a monster with a measly 15 lbs of boost pushed through it. I am running an 8.5 compression 468 motor with a 4l80e trans and 3.08 rear gears. It makes enough power to blow the tires off at anything under 65 mph. Good luck with your project, post some videos when you get it going.
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I got a couple boxes the other day...Somebody forgot to attach them! ;) Just kidding
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders003-1.jpg)
Got a few hours in planning, fitting, ect.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders002-1.jpg)
Moving Along
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders012-1.jpg)
Getting Closer!
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders010-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders026-1.jpg)
Just about done!
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TurboHeaders033-1.jpg)
Need to finish the rear tubes when the 45* bends come, trim back the ends & install the collectors & V-bands. More pic's to come, Lorne
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Nice looking headers you got there Lorne.
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Wait, I thought you were building this for your olds engine??
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Nice looking headers !! Where did you get all the piping, collectors, v bands, ect from?
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Vile, You must have skipped over this post.
Guys, Here's the basics of the plan. The truck is going to be a rolling testbed for my turbo set-up since it is in one piece & has been tested a bit at the track. I've been researching & gathering parts for over a year now...real fab progress won't start for another month or Two
due to being crazy busy at work.
The turbo engine is actually for my '73 Vega that I bought in the summer of '87. It's been in the back corner of my garage since '89.
I'm going to build the headers/hotside, coldside, ect. in the Vega then transplant it all to the truck for testing. As long as Chris doesn't mind some "car" underhood shots on here, I'll post the build as it goes together...otherwise once it's in the truck you'll see pic's.
The engine is a basic steel crank, forged rods/piston 355 Chevy, the turbo is a T-6 based Bullseye Performance 80mm. I'm working on a Holley 750, modifying for blow-through. That's about it for now...should make the "Black Box" a little quicker :D Lorne
I'm hoping to have the turbo set-up done in a couple months & pull the Olds engine after the Olds Nationals in July. I'll check the bearings, ect. & sit it in the corner until I'm done testing the turbo engine or if I have trouble with it close to September...I'll stick it back in for DragWeek if I have to.
The truck will be ideal for testing since we're used to running it & it's wide, long & heavy compared to something like the Vega.
All of the guys I talk to that have done turbos, say it's like addicts on crack...pretty soon you want a turbo daily driver, lawn mower, ect. So the truck may get a turbo Olds before it's all over...who knows?
As for the parts, they have come from several places. The flanges came from CPR, most of the bends came from Chassisshop, the V-bands came from Racepartsolutions. The 45* bends for the headers & the BIG bends for the downpipe are from Heart throb. I'll keep everyone posted, Lorne
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Sweet! and yeah I had a brain fart there.
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Once you Turbo it, you WILL be turbo'ing EVERYTHING!
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I can't wait to see this. How much power are you looking to get?
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Well, Progress has been slower than anticipated, but I did make a little ground in the last couple days. I finally took the time to get the headers built...I just need to drop them off to get the flanges surfaced. I'll post more as things progress!
Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/finishedturboheaders004-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/finishedturboheaders008-2.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/finishedturboheaders003-1-1.jpg)
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Where are you getting your band flanges?
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Racepartsolutions, They are US made by a company - Five Star. They have a groove on one half & a lip on the other half around the center hole that keeps the Two parts aligned while installing the band...they seem to be nice, heavy quality, stainless steel band. Lorne
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Thanks! I am trying to find some for my setup.
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Got a few hours here & there to get some port work done on the heads. We're going slow...but a little progress is allways good. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/Vortecheads004-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/Vortecheads002-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/Vortecheads003-1.jpg)
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lorne and cap, check those band clamps for fitment and the bolts, out of the 5 weve gotten from them 3 were perfect, one didnt seal correctly, and the last one the nut was cross threaded and bound up. we're having a hellofa time finding a reliable source for them.
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Those headers look amazing! Can't wait to see this thing all together.
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Bringing this back up...Project is not going near as fast as I'd hoped (Does anyone's?), but still making a bit of headway.
Got my Wastegate & Blow-off valve the other day...they are JGS 50mm units, American made good stuff. A piece here & there...one hour at a time. I have a machinist friend making some stubs with the flanges included so I don't have to have Two welds a couple inches apart or end up with a step from the tube to the flange. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/TURBO002-2-1.jpg)
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Lorne if you're looking to get your hot side coated, we use a place called QC coatings in michigan, super reasonable (down right cheap) and they actually warranty turbo stuff.
Russ
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Russ, Thanks! I have seen where a few guys have used QC with good reviews. I do plan to coat the headers & the hotside tubing...I'll have to check them out. Lorne
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What heads are you starting with? I looked through the thread but didn't see a casting number. (I admit I could be missing it tho)
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What heads are you starting with? I looked through the thread but didn't see a casting number. (I admit I could be missing it tho)
They are the Vortec 906's, these ones that have the Inconel exhaust seats. I had several sets to pick from...These are said to flow slightly less than the 062's & the 3 angle 906's, however I felt they would be better with the added heat & these were a VERY low mileage pair. You can see the number on the bottom of the one runner in this picture. Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/Vortecheads003-1.jpg)
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Lorne,
I've read that a zillion times too and I think it just comes down to someone read it on the internet so it must be true. I've ran both castings without ever encountering any issues or noticeable difference in performance.
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Vile, The ones with the Inconel seats have a single angle cut (they do have a chamfer /backcut at the top) where the 062's & the regular 906's have a 3 angle cut so I do believe there could be a slight difference...Again, Can you feel it if you swapped from one to the other? I doubt it. Nothing an extra pound of boost won't fix ;D Lorne
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A little more progress. My friend got my tubes machined for me. It WILL run someday! Lorne
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/wastegate-bovtubes001-1.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/HAULINIT/wastegate-bovtubes002-1.jpg)
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WOW man this is amazing!!! keep up the awesome work
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Sweet, I have a lil turbo Cobra im building....