73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Engine/Drivetrain => Topic started by: 1980c10 on November 04, 2010, 10:40:55 pm
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It's time to begin my 350 build and I will have more than a few questions along the way. (On a budget)
I guess this is my before (current)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv222/titera1/4.jpg)
transmission is a sm465
I am planning on buying a parts truck for the engine, mounts, radiator, brackets and whatever else I may want for parts. then I will sell the left overs when I am done.
I am planning on having a local machine shop put the block together.
bored as needed,
flat top pistons, (about a 9.3:1 ratio)
mild cam with a decent range say 2-5500 rpms,
big valves in the heads and polished etc.
and assembled crank to heads and timing cover
price should be about 1400 for the machine shop work.<is this a fair price?
The truck is a sat night cruiser, don't need to race but want it respectable and okay to drive all weekend withiout filling the tank up 3 times.
I will get a set of headers to connect to my 2.5 inch magnaflow duals
I will also need an intake and carb, so I am looking for any advice on any of these areas. I will continue to post as I make progress.
btw here is a pic of the truck the engine will go in:
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv222/titera1/gray.jpg)
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That is a nice looking truck, you should be very happy with a 350's power. Just ask your questions and you more than likely get more answer's than you want. lol
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Nice truck man. :P
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Edelbrock Performer EPS and a 670 Holley Street Avenger would be a good setup.
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big valves in the heads and polished etc.
Does this mean rebuilt stock heads with big valves? It would be a MUCH better choice to rebuild a set of vortec heads. For performance, this is the one thing you should stretch your budget for.
There is nothing wrong with a Q-jet. You can buy a good 800 cfm core for $25 and rebuilt it. If gas mileage and low speed torque are a concern, it is king of the carbs.
http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Modify-Rochester-Quadrajet-Carburetors/dp/1932494189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1289167325&sr=8-1
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/parts.html
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I have considered vortech heads, however I am going to save my money and keep it simple. throughout this whole project I have been keeping things on a tight budget while not skipping things either. i should see plenty of HP for what I need it to do. some extra money will be spent on the machine work and on the pistons cam headers etc. I have a show winning truck and I'm not embarrassed to say how much it cost and want to keep it that way. However, vortech heads would be next on the list if I were to add more power for sure.
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Thinking about this carb listed as;
Chevy and GMC Trucks 8CYL ( 4BBL ROCHESTER ) QUADRAJET
1978-80
350 CID 400 CID
ROCHESTER QUADRAJET
http://www.guaranteedcarbs.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=CTMHX3628
This could save me a lot of work.
I am thinking I would want at least 700 cfm not sure what this is.
what would be a good intake for this carb?
Single plane, dual plane, raised runners or stock?
bear in mind the other mods and I want to keep the powerband pretty wide as I will be using the sm465.
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also considering a high rise or the raised runner intake for appearance sake but only if it fits my application.
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I've never heard of that guy. If you want to save yourself the trouble of a rebuild SMI, The Carb Shop, and Cliff's High Performance are all very reputable Q-jet rebuilders.
I am thinking I would want at least 700 cfm not sure what this is.
CFM is the air flow of the carburetor in Cubic Feet per Minute. You basically want as much cfm as you can get while still maintaining proper fuel atomization. So for any carb there is a compromise to be made here. For a Q-jet you can get a 750 cfm or 800 cfm model. The Q-jet is designed with very small primary venturii and very efficient boosters. This translates to big airflow (supports big horsepower) without giving up drivability around town. Check out that book I posted earlier for good info on this carb including tuning it for max performance.
what would be a good intake for this carb?
Single plane, dual plane, raised runners or stock?
bear in mind the other mods and I want to keep the powerband pretty wide as I will be using the sm465.
For this mild engine, you want a dual plane, low rise intake like the Edelbrock 2101 or Weiand 8125. A raised runner intake would only be compatible with raised runner cylinder heads and these are pretty much a race-only item.
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I meant I wasn't sure what the specific cfm of the specific carb was, i understand cfm in general.
I have had very good luck with a q-jet before. I am one who would rather be a little higher on the cfm than most most people. would I be alright with a dual plane hi-rise intake or should I stick with a low rise-what would be the difference performance wise? think I will stick with a q-jet on this one. btw-I haven't put an engine together in about ten years so all the help is really appreciated.
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High rise dual planes have a straighter shot to the intake runners and a larger plenum volume under the carb. This means they breathe better, but because of the larger plenum volume, they give up some low speed velocity. On an engine with those heads, and a mild street cam it would cost you some low end torque, and maybe give a little more top end, when compared to a low rise dual plane.
You don't necessarily what to seek out high cfm above all else. Fuel atomization goes downhill fast if you go too big and both power and drivability suffer. In addition to this there is a point where power returns from increased cfm dimenish. For an engine like this you would typically go for a 600-650 cfm Holley or Edelbrock carb for the best overall drivability. But for the reasons I mentioned earlier no such compromise needs to be made for a Q-jet. That's why it's such an excellent street carb.
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High rise dual planes have a straighter shot to the intake runners and a larger plenum volume under the carb. This means they breathe better, but because of the larger plenum volume, they give up some low speed velocity. On an engine with those heads, and a mild street cam it would cost you some low end torque, and maybe give a little more top end, when compared to a low rise dual plane.
wouldn't the fact that it is a dual plane intake kind balance out the higher plenum volume?
if so-
with that in mind I feel like maybe the high rise isn't a bad idea as I won't be running an auto trans(less weight to get moving) and I can rev it a little more to get the air moving. I do also feel pretty safe going with a q-jet.
The last engine I put together was pretty much this same set up heads, compression, headers, cam, four speed etc, I used a high rise intake plus adapter with a holley 600 dual feed in a 2wd swb s10. everyone said too much carb but I already had so I tried it. throttle response from take off was impressive, I always sarted in 3rd gear(geared pretty low), only problem with this truck was traction, could not believe what this v6 could do. carb seemed to be a perfect match. From that experience I would not want be below 700 cfm with a 350.
However that was not a q-jet on a high rise, kind of wondering if the q-jet would work as well.
btw what would be a good set of headers to get for this truck, I want something that won't rust right away and is budget friendly.
Thanks again for the help.
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wouldn't the fact that it is a dual plane intake kind balance out the higher plenum volume?
Compared to a high rise single plane like the Victor Jr, yes. But compared to a low rise dual plane like the Edelbrock 2101, it should make less torque at low rpms. I'm not saying it would be a dog, but it probably wouldn't ideal either. If you don't mind giving up a little low end for some top end, go for it, but I'd be running a low rise. Also if high performance is a serious goal, I'll reinterate that you are probably using the wrong heads.
However that was not a q-jet on a high rise, kind of wondering if the q-jet would work as well.
Q-jets can make power. http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/rebuild455jh99.html
btw what would be a good set of headers to get for this truck, I want something that won't rust right away and is budget friendly.
Here is a set of headers I see recommended quite often by our resident expert VileZambonie. I have no experince with them but they seem nice for the money.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=31500FLT&dds=1
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-Those headers and the edelbrock 2101 both look really nice for the money and a q-jet. maybe down the road I will get some different heads but I need to keep the budget under control for now.
- If I did the vortech heads now I would probably have to give something up for them-don't really know where I could give something up at this point. I had also considered a stock 350-but I knew I wouldn't be as happy with the final product so this puts me somewhere in the middle-I just really want a dependable solid performing engine and the inline 250 sucks, Ive been getting poor mpg without the fun and I've already got about 10k in this truck (worth it btw) trying to keep this total under 15k by spring if I can.
-I am hoping to see 300-350 hp.
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That's OK, you can definitely hit 300-350hp with those heads, but it won't make as much torque as the vortec heads on a combination making the same 300-350hp. I still think you'll have an enjoyable engine so long as you keep the cam mild and do a good job tuning the Q-jet. And regardless of what you do with the engine, you have mighty fine looking truck.
Good luck and have fun.
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Depending on what exact manifolds you are comparing, low rise DP vs high rise DP intakes, high rise intakes can move the powerband from 500 too 900RPM higher up.
Whichever intake you get, it will be a lot more fun. and you have a great looking truck! looks sharp!
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Without knowing your convertor size or rear end gear ratio, my vote is for a dual plane intake with an 600 Holley. On the street you will get better throttle response with an smaller carb. An 750 Holley will gain you a few more H.P. but in the upper rpm range. I think Holley's are simple to work on or rebuild. Nice looking truck.
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I'm not really planning on ever running this engine above 6000 rpms,
my exhaust will be headers and 2 1/2 magnaflow duals(already on the truck).
I ran a holley 600 dual feed on a 4.3 v-6 with awesome results, engine was put together with the same size heads, compression ratio, high rise intake, headers etc was a 4 speed swb 2wd s10 though. but from that experience I would go at least 750 cfm. I agree the holleys are easy to tune but I am hoping to gain some mpg with the q-jet as I drive the truck a lot. I also won't run a catlytic convertor or any emmisions at all nothing will be added that isn't needed(I don't have to worry about inspections).
btw plan is as of now
sm465 manual trans-350 cid
-9.3 to 1 compression ratio
-2.02 and 1.60 valves ported, polished etc
-q-jet carb
-edelbrock 2101 low rise dual plane intake
-Flowtech 31500FLT Full-Length, Steel, Ceramic Coated headers.
-2.5 inch magnaflow crossflow duals
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couple more questions:
should I use an electric fuel pump for quicker starting, volume or any other reason?
should I use a high volume oil pump?
should I look for a serpentine belt system from the local u-pull it or won't anything match up?
should I go with an electric fan set up?
-I have power steering and no a/c
-I don't want to pay 500 or however much from the aftermarket(maybe at a later time).
also how easy is it to rebuild the sm465 for someone who never has done any trans work or are their certain parts I should replace besides front and rear seals and a clutch kit?
btw-I will worry about the rear end gearing and posi after the engine is in.
any other thoughts opinions.... send 'em my way please.
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If you upgrade to Vortec heads later you will need a new intake, or modify the one you have. If you are seriously considering it down the road, I would do it right away when you build the motor. You'll have it out where you can work on it, so it will make for a better build to do it right the first time. You'll save on gaskets and labor and you won't have to ream holes in a shiny new intake.
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If you upgrade to Vortec heads later you will need a new intake, or modify the one you have. If you are seriously considering it down the road, I would do it right away when you build the motor. You'll have it out where you can work on it, so it will make for a better build to do it right the first time. You'll save on gaskets and labor and you won't have to ream holes in a shiny new intake.
I am leaning away from the idea of vortech heads even down the road as I could just get a decent set of aftermarket heads and keep my intake etc. everybody seems to be in love with the vortech heads and I get it they will add some HP. But so does the aftermarket. I've seen pleanty of big HP without vortech heads. So it might get me 20 additional HP. I'm not against them it just isn't that important considering other options to add to this project. I think I would rather save my money and put it towards other things I'm not doing such as fuel injection, serpentine belt kit, stroker kit or a 5 speed just for example rather than a set of vortech heads. Being on a budget comes with an oppurtunity cost.
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You're in Wisconsin too, the vortec heads don't have exhaust heat crossover which is a little nice in colder weather. Good luck.
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This one gets stored in the winter to keep it out of the salt, everything up here rusts right away.
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I've thought about moving to NH and'll prolly have to do the same. Course mine's not 4x4 as Houston doesn't get snow that often (but it does get it!). I used to have a picture of my truck in the snow.
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it would be very hard to get around here with a 2wd+rwd. the city has a rule that they won't send out a plow for less than 3" on side streets, which gets really bad say if it snows 2" 3 times in the same week. The 8-10 ten year old chevys have have rust around here, cab corners and wheel wells are the first to go. I'll try to post some good snow pics this winter.
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EQ lightning vortec heads
good deal or not?
http://eauclaire.craigslist.org/pts/2056557049.html
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Yes EQ lightning heads are excellent. There are a few different variations of their "Vortec" head. Make sure this is the style that is the factory vortec style (4 intake bolts per head, a pair flanking each water passage). Based on the gasket in the pic, they are.
These were the heads used in this build: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/chevrolet/smallblock/0611em_vortec_small_block/index.html
The EQ heads have the benefits of screw in studs, larger spring accomodations, and thicker castings. $500 for an assembled pair is a great deal. BTW according to EQ they are 170cc heads like the factory Vortec L31 castings.
The only concern is the 400 steam holes that were drilled. They did not come from EQ this way. As long as the person who drilled them did it correctly, they won't cause a problem. Just make sure your head gasket seals these holes off properly, which most composite 350 gaskets should.
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I didn't notice the steam holes. I read some of the other ads the guy has posted, seems a little bit of an odd combination. buys the stuff new then sells for a lot less after using only a little while or not at all. Why wouldn't he return the stuff if he changed his mind or just go ahead and use it. Doesn't seem too smart, kind of makes wonder what else he may have done to the heads.
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I didn't notice the steam holes.
He mentions that these heads are drilled to work on a 400. That is what he means.
I read some of the other ads the guy has posted, seems a little bit of an odd combination. buys the stuff new then sells for a lot less after using only a little while or not at all. Why wouldn't he return the stuff if he changed his mind or just go ahead and use it. Doesn't seem too smart, kind of makes wonder what else he may have done to the heads.
??? As far as these heads go, you can buy them assembled elsewhere for about $600 plus shipping. So he is offering about $100 off. Could be he changed his mind and didn't want to pay return shipping + restocking fee and just decided to price to move. Check them out and use your best judgement.
Here they are bare for $500 after shipping: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-7-Vortec-Heads-062-906-NEW-Replacement-/250723825595?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a604df7bb
If a set of Vortec heads is now in the cards, you should consider finding the heads locally and having them rebuilt or buying rebuilt heads.
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yeah, I am going to pass on these, not thinking to hard about getting the vortech heads as I talked to a guy with the same set as I am considering (same package from the same machine shop), and he is more than happy with it with the older heads and overall performance, this shop has put together hundreds of this same combination together for the local hotrodders. I think my money might be better spent on a posi rearend or one of the many things I haven't thought of yet that I will need to buy, but who knows it could really go either way yet.
-anyway the truck will go in to storage in the next weekend, snowing all weekend now so can't even get it for one last ride before i put it away.
-So that opens space up in my garage for a parts truck-hopefully I find one soon, I will then strip it of what I need and bring the engine in. so I can can get my work truck in the garage(pretty much has to be in the garage for Dec, Feb and mar).
I am going to have more than enough time to dress up the new engine or whatever.
btw dug up a pic with my helper
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv222/titera1/DSCN0461.jpg)
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I should be going to pick up a parts truck tonight. It is a 84 2wd lwb for $550. I looked at it yesterday, it has a '75 350-looks stock with a 4bbl q-jet, started right up and runs good. It is tucked away behind some cars and the bed was full of stuff so I gave him some time to clean it out and make sure it will go down the road. I will post some pics. btw the truck has power windows tilt wheel etc so maybe i will get some extra parts.
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Update. Got the parts truck home. The 350 runs good, plenty of leaks on the truck, smoked most of the way home from coolant and transmission fluid leaking. maybe I won't have to rebuild the q-jet. Also stoppped in a transmission shop today to ask about some bushings in the shifter for my sm465 and walked out with a rebuilt nv3500 5 speed for $400 ;D. It was work they did for somebody that never picked it up. so add a little work to the project. Also I need to find a better machine shop to do the work as I heard some pretty bad things about the shop I was going to go with for the engine work.
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maybe I won't have to rebuild the q-jet.
I wouldn't count on it. Not if you want it to run its' best. You should give that Cliff Ruggles book I posted earlier a read through.
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pulled it in the garage after burning off a tire about a 1/4 mile long-mine won't do that. looked at the q-jet and its dirty bit it does run great. I will rebuild it just to make sure.
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Update: This engine is most likely going to get vortech heads, also the engine should be out of the truck this weekend if all goes well and in the machine shop on monday, I need my garage back my other vehicles are ice covered plus they need some misc. work too and it is too cold outside.
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Update: Engine is out of the truck, disassembled and at the machine shop. I picked up a set of heads today casting #062 vortech 350, they are used; bought from craigslist and when I went to get them turned out it was a friend of mine from H.S. so I am a little more confident that they will be good, couldn't see any cracks anyway. Also picked up a nice set of tall billet aluminum valve covers for another $25 from him. so far the plan is to bore block as needed, flat top pistons. Balance rotating assembly, a little heavier springs for the valves, any recomendation on rocker arms for these heads? heard I need roller tip.
also looking for some opinions on this cam: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-00904/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-00904/)
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Are you going to have the heads inspected, magnafluxed, etc.?
You do not need roller tip rockers. They are just a performance enhancement as they reduce friction and valve side loading. You do need to use self-guiding rockers if you retain the factory press in studs. If you have your machine shop drill and tap for screw in studs, also have them machine for guide plate and then you should run regular rocker arms.
That's fairly typical mild street cam. A Summit 1103 cam would be exactly the same for a lot less. David Vizard recommends cams spec'd on a 108 LCA for a typical street performance 350. He says that you are basically forfeiting torque everywhere in the powerband if you don't. I've got no personal experience to back this up but he does apparently.
When I build my 350 up I'll go with some sort of Vortec head variant, about 10:1 CR, and a cam with about the following specs:
262/262 ADV DUR
218/218 DUR @ 0.050"
.493"/.462" Lift (with 1.6:1 intake and 1.5:1 exhaust rockers)
108° LCA
4° Advance
Based on his writings, I expect this combination to be very docile with good low-end, but still offer 420-430 ft-lb potential (with excellent tune and well thought out components of course).
http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards-Build-Horsepower-Design/dp/1934709174/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291608071&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Chevy-Small-Blocks-Budget-Performance/dp/1932494847/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1291608071&sr=8-2
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BTW here are some very nice cheap springs. According to Chevy High Performance magazine, they are drop in for Vortec heads. These are the same springs used in the ZZ4, ZZ383, and CT350/400 crate engines from GMPP.
Springs:
http://paceperformance.com/i-5136483-12495494-small-block-chevy-lt4-valve-spring-kit-used-on-1996-lt4-engines-zz4-fast-burn-385-crate-engines-16-springs-1-32-diameter.html
Retainers:
http://paceperformance.com/i-5135247-19171528-valve-spring-cap-kit-lt4.html
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Those are the exact springs, The cam would be through the machine shop if I give them the okay on it, I don't know their price yet but I'll mention the summit cam to them if it's much more since they are pretty much identical.
The heads will be tested. They will also get a 3 angle/radius valve job and the screw in studs and some polishing and maybe a small amount of porting on the exhaust side. btw The heads will be machined, assembled and installed on the block by the machine shop, that way I can't screw it up.
thanks
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update; cliffs high performance will not be able to complete the carb work until july or august. So I am going with this guy;http://bigsperformance.com/ (http://bigsperformance.com/) he is a local guy that comes recommended by people I trust. At this point I am going to have him rebuild/modify the q-jet. however I have yet to bring him my cam specs and the carb, but i think it will work. If something isn't going to work with my current carb; I will probably go with a new holly modified/adjusted by him for my application. One nice thing about having this guy take care of it is that he will run the carb in his shop to test it and ball park the setting and then he will be able to fine tune it in my truck and being local I don't have to send it and If I have any issues I can drive to his shop to get it taken care of. He says he can do a little more with a holly but mpg will suffer, but he also says he can make this q-jet go.
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Another question: I currently have a cable driven speedometer and will be installing the nv3500. can i get a newer electronic oem speedometer-use it-and-if so-does the speed sensor send the signal to a computer or someting before it reaches the speedometer? If so the only other option I see is buying this http://www.gaugeguys.com/cablex.htm (http://www.gaugeguys.com/cablex.htm) and i would rather not spend another 325 if there is a cheaper solution. Ides, thoughts, any one do this?
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^^^^Anyone???^^
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Just a word of caution. When I was building my 350, the guy who did my machine work told me not to run the Vortec heads with flat top pistons. Too much compression and it eventually blow up. He builds a lot of racing engines so I took him at his word. I've heard other people say the same thing. I think if I already had the Vortec heads I may consider running a dished piston.
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Just a word of caution. When I was building my 350, the guy who did my machine work told me not to run the Vortec heads with flat top pistons. Too much compression and it eventually blow up. He builds a lot of racing engines so I took him at his word. I've heard other people say the same thing. I think if I already had the Vortec heads I may consider running a dished piston.
I am hoping for 9.5:1 ish.
I haven't actually calculated what it will be.
assuming;
the heads are 64cc
standard head gasket.. so .040
4.030 bore and 3.48 stroke
7cc valve relief??
the block wont be zero decked so .025??
These numbers calculate to 9.59:1
I am not too sure if I am correct with these numbers btw the block has never been machined. Does anyone think I am way off with these numbers?
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I had a set of 882 heads and the flat top pistons. My machinest told me that would around 9.5 to 1 compression. The 882 heads are 76cc.
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1980c10: You are correct; you should have a shade over 9.5:1. That's assuming the pistons are 25 thou in the hole. This is a great street compression, but 89 or higher octane will most likely be required.
bobcooter: With a zero decked block, 76cc heads, 0.040" thick gaskets, and 7cc relief flat tops pistons you've got less than 9:1.
There are a ton of compression calculators out there.
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
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Wow, thanks.
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Here's a little interesting reading on the subject of vortec heads and piston selection.
http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/index.html
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the .025 deck clearance is a complete wag.
the block will only be surfaced enough to clean it up and has never been rebuilt before.
Does anyone know what a realistic number or range might be on this^^^?
With a zero deck I would be at 10:1 so your concern is very real and definatley made me do my homework on this.
I am waiting for the block to be re-assembled at the moment to get an actual measurement from the the machine shop.
btw: http://www.baxterengines.com/ (http://www.baxterengines.com/)
On a side note;
My carb should be ready to pick up in the morning considering I dropped it off this morning that's pretty amazing so we'll see- he said he had nothing to do today until UPS arrives with parts so he would work on mine right away.
My intake is supposed to arrive in the morning also.
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No point in guessing what your compression height will be; just wait for the short block to be assembled. Either way you'll be between 9.5 and 10:1. And 10:1 should be perfectly acceptable with premium pump gas, especially with vortec heads (I imagine that article was referring to trucks that weigh a bit more than yours and that see regular towing). I certainly wouldn't worry about it for a weekend cruiser. If you are worried about excessive cylinder pressure just slide in a bigger cam. ;D It would be a good idea to know what CR you end up with, though.
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yeah I definatley want to know where the compression ratio ends up at. I got my intake in today and picked up my carb. I dropped off my carb less than 24 hours ago and is done and ready to run. I told him when I dropped it off to also make it look good if he can and it looks better than new. I'll get some pics of it one of these nights. Anyway it is painted cast iron gray with the throttle plate and choke painted silver I don't think I've ever seen a quadrajet look so good.
This carb has the old style choke and my intake doesn't have the area machined for it. I am thinking I'll try to run it without a choke and use an ac selenoid and a switch to activate it to bump up the idle at start up. I will only drive this truck in the summer. plan B would be to install a choke cable.
^^Thoughts?^^Anyone running without a choke?
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Find an E-Choke kit, they're worth their weight in gold if you plan to drive it under 50 degrees. Choke cables are for lawn mowers and 2 ton trucks. If you have it set up to start without a choke in that cold of weather, it won't be at it's best when running at operating temp. there's no possible way to make that heppen except for EFI.
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78 Chevyrado
Sounds great except, I don't have a hot air choke, it's a divorced choke. There isn't a kit available for this that I am aware of for a vortech intake that will work with this type of choke.
A choke pretty much gives the engine a richer fuel mixture, I am thinking I can do that by giving it a few pumps before starting it. The switched a/c solenoid could turn up the idle a few hundred rpms until I shut it off after it's warmed up. I am hoping this works. Like I said plan B is to set up a cable but I am hoping to avoid that as I am trying to keep the engine bay as clean as possible. The carb builder says it will start with a few pumps and that I would need to hold the throttle for a little while 'till the smooth idle comes around. He says he wouldn't hook up a manual choke.
I've never run without at least some kind of choke, so I have no idea.
Anyone out there run without a choke before or even just a manual choke?
Thanks again everyone for your help and patience.
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dude im jealous you have a beautiful beautiful truck an one heck of a hot rod congrats and good luck man
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A few pumps on the pedal won't replace a choke, but I realize this is more of a summer driver. Worst case scenario you will have to hold your foot on the pedal to warm it up a bit. Cold engines like fuel. I daily drive mine with an electric choke Holley in below freezing temps, and it's nice to have the electric choke to keep the high idle up while I shovel the snow from in front of the garage in the morning. If you have a functional choke you can walk away and let it warm up, and it doesn't matter in my opinion what kind of choke it is as long as it works. I like electric chokes but there isn't anything wrong with a cable controlled manual choke. Like Kenny said, you can adapt your carb to electric choke. It's stand alone on the carb and doesn't care what intake you have.
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Grim 82
I haven't been able to find a conversion for a divorced choke such as mine.
I have found plenty for the warm air to electric choke coversion, if anyone knows of a divorced choke kit let me know where you found it. With no choke I would install an a/c solenoid to bump up the idle with a switch. This solenoid normally is turned on when your a/c is running to turn up the idle so the a/c doesn't pull your idle too far down. I would instead install a switch This would be my alternative to having to hold down the gas pedal to warm it up.
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If you get an electric choke equipped q-jet off of a parts truck you could possibly swap those components over to your carb, but that would probably involve taking it apart again. The only electric conversions that I saw online would also have to be mounted to the intake, so yeah it looks like you might be out of luck there.
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Well I can sell my carb for what I have in it and do it again(builder would sell it for me), I've considered this but I'll try it first without a choke and maybe a choke cable.
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what cam did you end up going with? i ran the 1103 cam in a 305 in a car i had and i run the same cam in the 350 thats in my k10 and i love it!
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This one
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-00904/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-00904/)
I didn't get it from summit as my machine shop is a wholesaler for them.
Didn't want to offend someone there, it was cheaper than the same cam from summit anyway.
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pretty much same specs you will like it!
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Update;
short block assembled, painted cast iron gray, timing chain and cover installed, intake gasket, headers, clutch, water pump, fuel pump are now here.
I need to get the valve covers sanded and polished.
-I also would like to buy a new distributor, i am looking for a complete unit with cap and coil cover, non computer and with vacuum adv. anyone know a good source???
-Also looking for some good universal plug wire with 90 degree plug caps
(going to run them below the headers)
I hope to dyno this engine in the next week or two.
hoping to get this thing dialed in just right with the right jet and adv spring etc.
I will post back the results here. any guesses?
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Anybody try ebay distributors? results? Recommendations?
How about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-CHEVY-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-AND-ACCEL-300-WIRES-6500-R-K-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5196dd8044QQitemZ350423449668QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-CHEVY-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-AND-ACCEL-300-WIRES-6500-R-K-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5196dd8044QQitemZ350423449668QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
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I'm a little leery of skip white. I need to switch out fuel pumps and throw the pro-comp I got from him in the trash. You can go to summit too.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850001R/
They don't come with plug wires however. They sell a combo kit too but I bet it's over the valve cover style. If you're getting long tube headers, the MSD wires for corvette with headers won't be long enough to go under headers. At least they didn't on mine.
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I like the one from summit.
The parts stores around here get about 140 for a complete accel or msd distributor and thats with a red or blue cap(I want a black cap since I want to hide the wires)
So I would have to spend a little more to get it the way I want.
I wasn't looking for a combo kit. I just happened to like those wires. summit has the same wires for $99 so it's kind of like getting a free distributor. with that deal.
As far as the wires go; I will most likely get a universal set as they will have long enough wires.
btw: I have these headers
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-31500FLT/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-31500FLT/)
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I ended up getting a proform distributor and a set of msd streetfire universal with 90 degree plugs. I will run this on the dyno next week
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I'm kinda curious on the numbers it will make.
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dyno'd today 8)
specs: 350 .030 over
vortec heads, a/c delco platinum
fat top pistons, 9.7 ish to 1 compression ratio
crower torque beast cam
intake edelbrock performer, 1 inch open spacer
carb holley 670 avenger, jets: Changed to P-68 S-72 From the box: P-65 S-68
proform dist, msd streetfire wires.
vacuum adv connected
Balanced rotating assembly
timing adv: 31 degrees
rpm 3000-5500
91 octane pump gas
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Peak torque: 431.6 @ 4300
peak HP: 393.3 @ 5400
rpm tq hp
3000 401 229
3100 404 239
3200 409 250
3300 412 259
3400 414 268
3500 416 277
3600 420 288
3700 422 297
3800 422 305
3900 423 314
4000 424 323
4100 427 334
4200 431 345
4300 432 353
4400 431 361
4500 429 368
4600 428 375
4700 424 380
4800 420 384
4900 415 387
5000 409 390
5100 404 392
5300 389 393
5400 374 393
5500 374 392
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Nice!
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Wow those are some great numbers! Congrats!
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That's awesome man
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the quadrajet had major problems.
ran a 770 cfm holley from the dyno shop and a 670-both worked great, needed bigger jets in the 670 to run the same numbers as the 770.
I kept the 670 for better throttle response since both run the same.
I will deal with the q-jet carb guy tomorow, couldn't even hold 2000 rpm to break the cam in.
He supposedly run this on his test engine.
otherwise the engine ran perfect, no leaks, no noise perfect 62-70 oil psi through the rpm range.
I can probably run this engine on 87 octane as it is only 31 degrees advanced.
The 1" open spacer added 8-9 hp this worked becuase it evened out the a/f mixture left to right.
Dyno guy and engine builder were both impressed with the vortech heads and agree'd that these were probably good for 30 hp.
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This is the new carb:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-80670/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-80670/)
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Awesome! Aren't you glad you went with the vortec heads? ;) Now the trick will be getting the engine running in the truck with minimal power loss (exhaust, accessories, underhood heat, transmission, rotating mass, etc.).
Some interesting reading on the subject:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0602phr_rear_wheel_power_increase/index.html
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/exhaust/0505phr_exh/index.html
Shame about the Q-jet. There is no good reason why a properly rebuilt/calibrated Q-jet can't run as good as or better than that 670 Holley.
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Awesome! Aren't you glad you went with the vortec heads? ;) Now the trick will be getting the engine running in the truck with minimal power loss (exhaust, accessories, underhood heat, transmission, rotating mass, etc.).
Shame about the Q-jet. There is no good reason why a properly rebuilt/calibrated Q-jet can't run as good as or better than that 670 Holley.
I'm glad I went with the vortech heads, It come down to; I wasn't going to run the heads that come on the engine and come across a deal.
it wasn't the q-jet as much as the rebuilder screwing it up. It may be for the better as I am pretty comfortable making changes to a holley carb vs a q-jet.
exhaust-is the flotech ceramic coated long tube header and 2.5" magnaflow duals already on the truck.
stock water pump, power steering and clutch fan will be the only accesssories.
trans will be the manual five speed.
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I was wondering if I should continue this thread here or start another for the installation.
I will be removing the inline 6 and installing the new engine at the same time I will be trying to clean up the engine bay.
I will also be removing the sm465 and installing the nv3500.
also converting the mechanical clutch linkage to hydrualic.
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I would say that qualifies for either the Members' Projects or the Members' Rides category.
But first, how about some shots of the engine to close up this thread?
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yeah, I almost forgot about the pics.
I need to take some, maybe this weekend.
Here's one to hold ya over, it's not pretty in this pic but its the only one I have
btw it has the q-jet on in this pic.
But I will run the 670 holley.
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv222/titera1/DSCN0518.jpg)
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just ordered a open 1" carb spacer, chrome dual inlet line, and a new throttle cable bracket and a mid mount alt bracket, 85 amp alt and a gear reduction starter today.
dyno and new carb yesterday
paid machine shop day before yesterday
My wallet almost floated away on me a couple of times. ???