73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Performance => Topic started by: 88_50 on January 15, 2011, 06:57:02 am
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Hello everyone,
Im new to the Site and new to BBC, but not new to engine building...or asking questions. I know that the correct combination is key to an efficient running engine, so thats why I decided to post on here to get your opinions. So here's what I currently have...
1990 Chevy C3500 ECLW 2WD with a 454ci, TH400, and a dually rear. The 454 block is a 4 bolt main 14015445. The heads are 14092360 peanut ports. And of course TBI and computer controlled distributor. Supposely this engine has just had a fresh rebuild.
I bought this truck for my son, while I was overseas. Unfortunately I wasnt around to test drive it. I found it on the internet so my wife and son test drove it and brought it home. After coming home for R&R, Ive come to realize I probably bought a dud. My problem with this truck is it feels like a dog. I dont expect it to run like my F350 or my 383 racecar, but I do expect it to have some ballz. While I was home I pulled the pan off to make sure the bottom end looked ok. The bearings all looked fine, so I didnt worry about the rings. I did replace the plastic sleeve for the oil pump drive with a Summit one piece. I then replaced the timing chain for a double roller. I also thru on a set of Hedman Headers, true dual exhaust with Flowmasters, MSD wires, new plugs, cap and rotor, and an Edelbrock TBI intake. Guess what...no change. Still runs like a 305. Throttle response seemed to be a little better, but still has a lot of bog off the line. So I told my son as I was heading back to Afghanistan to just drive the truck until I got back. Then we would tinker with it some more. The day after I leave he tells me that he over-heated the truck and now the oil is milky. Apparently he wasnt watching the gauges and somehow thru the serpentine belt. An expensive lesson to say the least. Now Im scratching my head wondering with which way to go. Do I replace the peanut heads with another fresh set and call it done...or do I have some fun with it? It gets 7 mpg now, so I couldnt hurt that aspect. The other option would be to throw out all the computer stuff and install some 049/781 heads, small cam, Edelbrock intake, small Holley carb, HEI, and a mech fuel pump.
Im not sure if going away from the computer will harm anything. The cam shouldnt cause any issues with the brakes cause it doesnt have a power booster. The trans is a TH400, so the comp doesnt control it either. The only issue I can think of is the fuel system. Its TBI now, so I guess I could get an electric fuel pump that has a return on it and plumb into the existing lines. Not sure.
Not sure what to do at this moment. I know there are plenty of people out there making good power with the pp heads. Is there a pp head casting that you recommend? Or go with the 049/781 heads? If I go with these heads, do I need to change the pistons? Any suggest on a cam for either heads?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I am not the best to comment on your post, just wanted to say that others will be for sure, you just have to be patient. Just wanted to welcome you from California, and thank you for your service.
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Yes,those TBI 454 are pretty much a dog at the factory compare to a built 383 for sure.
If you really want more power,I'd have to say,remove the TBI unit and go with a carburetor setup.
Then you can go with a better head and cam setup.
Those TBI unit ussually run on the lean side at the factory,with some mods,it's only gonna get worse.
It can be done by making good power with a TBI unit,but a lot of work and alot more money,need a lot of patience too.......
Their was a link that I posted a few weeks ago here on the site,a magazine article about a cheap 454 that made 440+hP with lots of torque with a penut port 454,RPM intake,750 Holley,with a Comp Extreme energy cam.That would be a pretty good setup for a big dually.
What tranny,gear ratio,and tire size that this bad boy has ?
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Bake74, thanks for the welcome :D
Motion427,
The trans is a TH400. The tires are 16's. And I have no clue what gears are in it. My guess is a low gear. The rpms are a bit high on the highway. Wish the truck had a tach in it. I would give you the rpm to speed info. Im just going by my calibrated ears...haha.
Yeah, its a nice truck. I tried to post a pic of it, but says I cant cause its 534kb :(
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Use photobucket
it doesnt have a power booster
Do you mean it doesn't have a vacuum booster? It should have hydroboost unless someone made it manual brakes which would be pretty stupid.
Did you change the oil after you replaced the intake? Where did you set the timing? To be honest you went about this all wrong.
Dropping the oil pan and timing chain etc while not a bad thing was probably a waste of time and money. Changing the intake without changing the cam and eliminating those valve rotators was another waste of time and money. At this point I would find out why it overheated/threw the belt and if any engine damage occured. If you have to pull the engine you should be able to build plenty of power and keep the TBI setup. If you determine the engine is OK and you just have some risidual oil/water mix from when you opened it up we can walk you through the process of figuring out why it's a slug.
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Yeah it has a hydroboost...sorry, I forgot the name.
I did change the oil when I did the intake because I did the oil pump driveshaft and timing chain at the same time. The main reason for me to pull the oil pan was to see if it really was rebuilt. Like I said, it runs more like a 305. As for the timing, a friend had borrowed my timing gun and I couldnt seem to reach him while I was home. So before I tore it all apart, I brought it up to TDC and marked where the distributor and rotor were both sitting. I know its a bit redneck, but the best I could do without the gun. The truck fired up immediate, so I know its back to where it was before I started. I had told my son to run it by a shop while I was gone to have the timing and rockers checked. But he overheated it before he could take it there. Now Im hoping it just hurt the heads at the worst. Im praying it didnt get hot enough to stick the rings.
My son says when he started the truck up for me to check the oil for water, he noticed that one of the pulleys seemed bent. Im still waiting to hear back from him which one it is. I just wish he would have listened to me always preaching about watching his gauges....ahhhh 16 year olds...Im sure his mind was more on his g/f sitting next to him and not his truck.
My main goal when I started on this project was to make sure the 454 was honestly rebuilt, add the Edelbrock TBI intake and headers for a little more power, and add some chrome to make it look better. Little did I know this would turn so ugly.
VileZambonie, what combo do you recommend for the TBI setup? At this point, Im wondering if I would get better power and gas mileage out of a 750cfm carb and dual plane intake. My ears are open. I definitely respect your knowledge on the matter and appreciate all your help.
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Here it is...
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4274/dsc01616i.th.jpg) (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/dsc01616i.jpg/)
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That's not a 1990....
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Yes,like VileZambonie wrote.
Would have to figure out what caused the overheating and hope theirs minimum damage,and go from there.
Didn't Edelbrock had a top end package(heads,cam,intake) for those TBI 454's ?
Truck looks nice by the way.
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That's not a 1990....
Why not?
Definitely get rid of those heads. Look on this page for some recommendations.
http://www.tbichips.com/454ss.htm
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I thought the 3500's didn't change over till 92. Could you order the nbs?
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In 1987 The C/K series was done in the old body style and became R/V. In 1988 The C/K's were that body style.
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I see. I'm going to step out of this gracefully lol.
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In 1987 The C/K series was done in the old body style and became R/V. In 1988 The C/K's were that body style.
Only the 1500 series. HD changed over in 92 to the new body style:
Here is a 1991 3500: http://rides.sporttruck.com/ride/1015433/chevyboy4/1991/chevrolet/k3500/index.html
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The bb that i have likes alot of timing. When i bought it . it was a dog all i did was give it a little more advance and it turned into a screamer.Ive got a 5000 rpm chip in the 6al. It will blow the tires off it
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Motion427, I think Edelbrock makes a cam. Not sure about TBI heads. I installed the intake. Its a direct bolt on minus the throtle bracket.
Vile, thanks for the link. Thats a good read. Every site I read says go with the 049 or 781 heads. Guess from what I understand, the 781 and 049 are about the same, but the 781 has a smaller intake runner. I can get a fresh set of 049 118cc heads with 2.19 intake 1.88 valves, Manely 3/8 guides, Ported by NVR Racing, Fresh 3 angle valve job, Bronze guides and new seals, and Comp roller springs 943-16 240 @1.9 and 598 @ 1.250 for $500. Obviously I would change the springs if I buy them, cause Im not spending $600 for a roller setup for my 16 yo son. What do you think Vile? Is this a good deal? Do you think this is too much head, and should get the smaller 781's?
I'm still considering ditching the computer stuff. The wires are looking pretty ratty. Think the only thing I could do if I stay TBI, is find another engine harness to get rid of any gremlins it maybe giving me. I've just never been a fan of TBI...no offense to anyone. With the poor gas mileage and lack of performance, I think I could improve it across the board with the correct combo of carb/cam/intake/heads versus chasing down TBI gremlins/bigger injectors/fuel pump/cam/heads/and whatever else unknown to me with TBI.
Royo, how much timing are you running now? I will keep that in mind when we get it back together.
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781 and the 049 pretty much the same,either one will do just fine.
If I remember correctly,they use the Edelbrock #60449 for the TBI setup.It also raise the compression.
Their was a sweet cam that we used on those TBI setup's.
Trying to find it right now......
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This was an old grind that we used on a few of those TBI 454's.It was an old TRW/sealed power number.
But I think,now you can get it by Howard cams #120021-12.
It's small in numbers,but it worked very well.
But now,with new cam technology,Comp Cams has a couple of nice ones.
The bigger one #11-304-4 has pretty nice numbers........Haven't used it yet though.......
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In 1987 The C/K series was done in the old body style and became R/V. In 1988 The C/K's were that body style.
Only the 1500 series. HD changed over in 92 to the new body style:
Here is a 1991 3500: http://rides.sporttruck.com/ride/1015433/chevyboy4/1991/chevrolet/k3500/index.html
Where did you get that information from? That is a V3500 not a K3500
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Do you have a 4L80E?
Either castings will work good and if those heads are all set ready to roll that's a decent price.
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Where did you get that information from? That is a V3500 not a K3500
The owners of the Old body style tend to call them "K"'s even though they are "V"'s
Many other forums dedicated to Blazers and Burb's...
When part hunting for 89 -91 Blazers and Burbs, we need to know what we can use. \
Here is another 91 V3500: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198335&page=64
And here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=345243
The 2nd link will show you that any 2500 and 3500 for 88-91 will have the old style nose.
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Topp, what are you trying to say? ???
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Topp, what are you trying to say? ???
That in 1988, the Newbody style was introduced ONLY on the 1500 series Pickup... The 2500/3500 kept the old nose found on the suburban for 89-91, hence the OP does not have a 1990 truck (at least the pic he posted) as that front end was ONLY on the 1500 series truck for 1990, and not the 3500 series for 1990.
"After 1987, R/V remained in use for the full ton 30/35 models, V30/35 regular cab dually, and crew cabs through 1991 (built at Janesville), and SUVs (Chevrolet K5 Blazer and Suburban, built at Flint) through 1991"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_C/K
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Topp, what are you trying to say? ???
That in 1988, the Newbody style was introduced ONLY on the 1500 series Pickup... The 2500/3500 kept the old nose found on the suburban for 89-91, hence the OP does not have a 1990 truck (at least the pic he posted) as that front end was ONLY on the 1500 series truck for 1990, and not the 3500 series for 1990.
"After 1987, R/V remained in use for the full ton 30/35 models, V30/35 regular cab dually, and crew cabs through 1991 (built at Janesville), and SUVs (Chevrolet K5 Blazer and Suburban, built at Flint) through 1991"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_C/K
That is incorrect. -The C/K series was available in 3500 as well.
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That is incorrect. -The C/K series was available in 3500 as well.
Until 1991, the 3500 series was in the old body style ONLY(89-91 Blazer and suburban nose.).
I have posted SEVERAL links. I have NEVER seen or even know anyone (on over 10 chevy forums) who has/believes or has any evidence that is contrary.
The 1988 pickup bodystyle change was ONLY on the 1500.
I am not talking the C/K R/V designation. I am talking about the NOSE of the truck, the fascia, the body lines.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-chevy-3500-1-ton-dully-4x4-454-automatic-x-cab-/150548891455?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item230d69c73f#v4-38
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Interesting... Never seen one before...
I found this- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Silverado-3500-SILVERADO-1990-CHEVEROLET-CREW-CAB-4X4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e60f4e891QQitemZ130475681937QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
1990 Old nose....
Can not be transplanted, since the newer body style was narrower...
Any clue?????
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Vile, It has a TH400. I really wished it had an Overdrive trans. I think that will be the next major mod after this engine. Thanks for the advice for the heads. I'm thinking about just puling his engine and replacing the pistons and rings. Ive seen rings stick in pistons when over heated too much. I dont think he is telling me the truth on how far he drove it like that. But he did say the temp gauge was buried. Changing the pistons will also give me a chance to get the CR up to 90-9.5 range. It will also let me put a good set of rings in.
LOL at everyone discussing what the truck is. Its definitely a 1990 C3500 2 wheel drive gas hog. But its a nice one.
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LOL at everyone discussing what the truck is. Its definitely a 1990 C3500 2 wheel drive gas hog. But its a nice one.
Glad you have a sense of humor about it.
On a side note, my buddy had a 89 4X4 2500 that was nbs and my 88 2wd 1500 sierra is nbs...
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LOL at everyone discussing what the truck is. Its definitely a 1990 C3500 2 wheel drive gas hog. But its a nice one.
Glad you have a sense of humor about it.
On a side note, my buddy had a 89 4X4 2500 that was nbs and my 88 2wd 1500 sierra is nbs...
Yeah, my son is shocked by my attitude especially for the money Im about to put in it. But I look at it like this, as long as he learns from his mistake and pays better attention, all is ok. He also knows everything he breaks I stand over him and make him fix. Everything from his dirtbike to his truck. Thats the only way I can make him learn to appreciate and take care of stuff. He wouldnt respect anything if Dad fixed everything he broke. Besides, I think its good for him to learn how to fix his stuff. Dad wont be around forever.
NBS is definitely something Im going to do to the truck when I get home in April. Its amazing how much a quick front end change makes the truck look so much better.
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From what I understand, you could have a 3500 pickup from 88-91 and it would be newer style, unless said pickup was a crew cab, which would then have squarebody styling, and that theory seems to agree with all of the links that were posted.
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Thats the original front end and its a extended cab.
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Yep, extended, but not 'crew' (3+3).
Also, for overall drivability, I would keep the TBI.
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Yep, extended, but not 'crew' (3+3).
Correct. This is the crew cab style.