73-87chevytrucks.com
General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: Da67goatman on March 08, 2011, 04:15:10 pm
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I have been on the lookout for a fuel efficient car for daily driving. I am really liking the newish 1999-06 VWs jetta golf and passat that style. I was just concerned that I might be getting in over my head with something so new and electronic. I have already seen a couple trends/hiccups in these cars. I know I want the 4cyl with 5 speed trans. I want your opinions/experiences with these vehicles, so I have enough knowledge to make a good decision.
The ones I'm looking at are in the under $2k range so they all need some love to varying degrees. I have noticed that Bent valves and broken timing belts seem to be popular problems for these. How bad is it to replace the belt and pull the head for valve repairs? I know some of you are mechanics that might have fixed these problems and I would like your advice/ guidance. Anything else I should be looking for? things to stay away from?
Thanks again, you guys are like family.
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personally I would stay away from anything VW. They engineer those things so that the average person MUST take it to a dealer to do as little as changing the oil....they have complicated bottom pans that involve removing 20-30 bolts just to get to the oil pan, with special tools required to remove those bolts. VW is ridiculous. People I know who bought one of those wish they didn't after they realize what is involved for just the simpliest of maintenance....it turns comlicated very quickly.
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Timing belts can be a pita to fix. You usually on a 4 cylinder have to remove at least one motor mount and all the ones I've seen need special tools for aligning everything back up wihen you reassemble. If you don't do the timing belt yourself figure on spending $600 to $1000 to have it replaced for you, depending on how hard it is.
Might be a good idea to find some VW forums to haunt and hunt for the problems those guys have with their VW's. Also you would be able to find which years are the best and worst.
If bent valves are a common problem, and you don't plan on revving it much (like economy driving) then it may not ever be a problem.
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an old friend of mine had a jetta. you couldnt even change some of the fluids on that thing yourself. FLUIDS.
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I think cavaliers are good cheap cars. We use them for 4cyl race cars. They are cheap to keep on the road too. Find one with a stick and they do pretty good (probably not as good as VW) on milage.
Plus they come with a bowtie!
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I will never again drive a cav. I think shopping carts handle better, those cavs are just too unpredictable. I once ended up 50 ft into someones yard because the rear end kicked out when I hit a dip in the road. They r out of the question. I am a domestic supporter, but I would take a german car over american any day. German engineering is the best, by far.
Does anybody drive a vw?
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We don't do much on them at the shop, but I have done a few things, They are a PITA to work on. You want Not to hard to work on, reliable, and milage? Three words, Subaru, Toyota, Honda.
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i had a honda civic... 93 i think. that thing was fun. low and tight handling and good zippy acceleration. then again it had a 95 vtec engine in it when i got it. got it for 2300$ never did a single thing to it except put gas in it and change the oil.
not as easy as an old chevy to work on but still pretty simple. a lot of stupid little relays that can and will go out depending on age. another good mileage car i had was a jeep cherokee laredo edition. it was a straight 6 but again was pretty good on acceleration. never had any problems with that either. bought it for 3k and sold it for 3.5. it did so well in the two years i had it that when i took it to the buyer's mechanic he put it on the lift and 30 minutes later came out and said "i cant find a single thing wrong with it" haha. not a drip of oil.
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You would be the first person I know that thinks the 4.0 Jeep motor gets good mileage. My ex had one, and I know a bunch of people that have them. Great rigs, but MPGs are not their strong point. They are somewhat of a pain to work on as well. Engine compartment is a tad small!
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I personally say cant beat a cavi I have had two and put 330kms on one (still runs just needs a fuel pump but its rotting away in a snow bank) and another with 250kms (bought for a grand put 50000 on it and sold it for a grand again) cant beat a car you can do a complete brake job on for under $200 in an after noon. i consistently got 30 mpg with a 2.2 5 speed. the new cobalts or g5s are pretty nice and handle better than the older ones.
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I had an audi A4(same drive train as VW), great car to drive all around. I could not afford to keep up with the repairs. It only had 118k and the turbo was goin out-600, seat covers were torn in the front-300, needed tires 600, speeding ticket 270 :'(, replaced all struts, transmission shifted wierd-1800 on a guess other 2500 to pull and diagnose plus additional parts and labor. I unloaded it on craigslist as fast as I could.
As far as the timing belts breaking and bent valves-it is considered regular maint to change them avery 60k or 80k miles to prevent this.
btw it is about 600-700 to have this done.
If you don't; your best bet is a set of junk yard heads if you can find them.
Cavaliers are very boring to drive, I had a 2000 z24 loaded with 34k miles-noisy and kinda slow.
I now own a 2001 mazda protege with 178k and nothing ever breaks
if you get one of these make sure it has the 2.0L and a 5 speed-otherwise too slow.
If you can get the mp3 version it has a turbo charger.
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You would be the first person I know that thinks the 4.0 Jeep motor gets good mileage. My ex had one, and I know a bunch of people that have them. Great rigs, but MPGs are not their strong point. They are somewhat of a pain to work on as well. Engine compartment is a tad small!
sorry,i meant that compared to the blazer with 33" tires on it i had before it haha
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i had a ford festiva, got amazing mileage, ac and everything worked in it, im a chevy person but that came by and i drove it for almost 2 years and just sold it 2 or 3 weeks ago and bought a civic hatchback, does alot better in acceleration and handling than the festiva and alot nicer, gets good mileage, but ill sure miss mileage fesiva got. parts were easy to find for car, and cost me 20 bucks to fill it up and could run for 2 weeks sometimes more on it
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VW=money pit garbage can.
Nissan Altima is the cheapest longest lasting minimal cost car imo and I would buy one if I needed an economical car.
The cavalier is definitely an affordable easy fix car.
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This is my choice for the best economy car.
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Vile: Way to rain on my parade. That was def not what I wanted to hear. Anyway I am still looking, found a few. Pursuing one in particular, its a "98 Passat 1.8L turbo with 5 speed 120k miles very clean car. has an electrical gremlin but the price is well within budget. I would like to hear more from drivers of said VWs, since I have heard lots from the mechanic point of view. I welcome the suggestions but I have a very tight budget with no fudge room, under 2k period. Most of those vehicles would be way out of my price range, and not really my style. I need something other than the Burb that I can drive back and forth to college. Thanks again.
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Sorry to rain on your parade but it will nickel and dime you to death.
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if you are young and are learning how to work on cars, VW will give you much frustration because of the special tools you need.
My wife has a 96 Taurus V6 that I love to drive. She drivers her Escape, I keep the miles off my sub and 79 pickup, so, I drive the Taurus quite a bit. It gets 18 city and 30 hwy so it is a bonus. The yamaha engine is pretty peppy.
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The only way I would consider another VW is if I leased it and if under warranty for the duration.
also keep an eye out for oil sludge problems on vw especially the 1.8L
also ask when the timing belt has last been changed and ask for proof, without it, plan on getting that done too.
They won't really nickel and dime but they will need hundred dollar bills quite often.
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Sorry to rain on your parade but it will nickel and dime you to death.
Don't you mean Quarter & Dollar you to death? ;D I agree with the others...VW stuff should never get the hype it does, just goes to show how the Motortrend, Consumer Report, ect. can make something out to be something that it is not. The list of vehicles I would want before a VW...Boy would that be LONG! Lorne
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I've got a V6 dodge magnum that gets 32mpg on the dot. I made it from el paso to ft. worth without having to fill up! Here in west texas unless you drive for an hour in any direction you're not getting anywhere. So a good economical daily driver is a must. I'd expect the same from any V6 charger or Chrysler 300. Before that had an altima and it was probably better on fuel. I was in the military and would made two moves from duty stations. East coast to georgia and from there back home to texas. Did me good with basic maintenance.
My brother used to have a 4 cylinder jetta in high school. It was a good comfortable drive and ride to me. Didn't give him any problems and he drove like a maniac. I had a volvo and it was pretty much the same. They say volvos are easier to work on but the price of parts just like the VW labor evens them out. Just my 2 cents!
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I should add, In my opinion VWs are great cars if they are less than 5 years old. They are sturdy cars. Its just when they get some miles, and age on them they will empty your bank account rather quickly as stated allready. Electrical gremlin, I run away from that one as fast as you can!
I had a 78 Ford Fiesta years ago. I would own another one of them. I ran the wheels off it for over a year, all I ever did to it was a battery, and four used tires. It was like driving a go cart with a beer can for a body but it got around 25 MPG. had a Toyota Starlet too, Put Celica wheels on it. That thing cornered like it was on rails after that! It got around 25 MPG too.
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I can't see this VW costing more than my Burb, its taken an average of 1400 bucks a year for the past 3 years to keep my truck on the road, not including gas and it gets not even half the mileage of that VW. I have no problem spending a hundred here or there, its those 1200 dollar fixes that scare me. I haven't heard anything bad about a VW from someone that's driven one
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Of course not, they aren't going to admit they didn't listen to the guys that have worked on them!! HAHAHA!!!
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buddy of mine just got rid of his 97 jetta, owned it less than a year. replaced wheel bearings bi-monthly. starter is integrated with one of the motor mount bolts, had loads of electrical issues. factory sunroof leaked, replaced seals, still leaked. appeared that it always had. he bought it from an older couple with 96k miles on it. VW enthusiasts are like Mac enthusiasts, youll never hear anything bad.
get an s-10 and drive it into the ground. wash, rinse, repeat.
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its taken an average of 1400 bucks a year for the past 3 years to keep my truck on the road,
I'd say $116.66 a month for transportation costs isn't bad at all....there is more to costs than just gas expenses. You will find that our trucks, as guzzling as they are, are the cheapest things to keep on the road....that's why i have 2. Parts are cheap and plentiful, maintenance is easy, and you can change engines in a day.
If you bought a $2,000 vehicle, just so that it would be less expensive on gas, you have to include that car price and add any mechanical issue costs (which, as we are warning, could be high for a high mileage VW) then add gas costs and insurance for another vehicle.
if you paid $2,000 and keep it 3 years, you are already, with an empty gas tank, adding $55 a month if you keep it 3 years. Then add gas and insurance and maintenance/mechanical issues that cost money. I'd stick to the $116.66 a month and call it a day.
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With as much driving as I do, the 74 gets about 14 right now, its still costing me less to keep that truck going and insured than it would be to pick up a payment on something.
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get an s-10 and drive it into the ground. wash, rinse, repeat.
^this, or any GM car with a 3800. It won't make VW mileage, but you can burn alot of gas for what you'd save in maintenance.
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get an s-10 and drive it into the ground. wash, rinse, repeat.
^this, or any GM car with a 3800. It won't make VW mileage, but you can burn alot of gas for what you'd save in maintenance.
My sister had a 04 Impala w/ the 3400, plenty of low end, and it pegged 30mpg on the freeway, great road tripper.
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I've got a V6 dodge magnum that gets 32mpg on the dot. I made it from el paso to ft. worth without having to fill up! Here in west texas unless you drive for an hour in any direction you're not getting anywhere. So a good economical daily driver is a must. I'd expect the same from any V6 charger or Chrysler 300. Before that had an altima and it was probably better on fuel. I was in the military and would made two moves from duty stations. East coast to georgia and from there back home to texas. Did me good with basic maintenance.
My brother used to have a 4 cylinder jetta in high school. It was a good comfortable drive and ride to me. Didn't give him any problems and he drove like a maniac. I had a volvo and it was pretty much the same. They say volvos are easier to work on but the price of parts just like the VW labor evens them out. Just my 2 cents!
i just met someone the other day that has the magnum v6 and they made it to katy texas and back up to georgetown on a tank of gas.
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The 01 Grand Prix we have gets 21mpg around town and about 30mpg on trips. Love that car now that I resurrected it.
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If you're cool with working on your own car, the VW isn't that bad of an idea. Like someone said, they're like Macs, in that they have somewhat of a decent following, vwvortex.com and others for forums. So you've got a tech base to pull from. I drive a newer VW, but I wouldn't get another one. But I think all cars are somewhat going in that direction.
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I think the best bang for the buck as far as cheap cars go is a Saturn. I'm no expert on them but as far as I know they have timing chains instead of belts. I've bought a few at the auctions and had great luck with them.
The older Honda's and Toyota's are great cars but if you buy a beater with 150K on it it may be in need of a timing belt.
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I think the best bang for the buck as far as cheap cars go is a Saturn. I'm no expert on them but as far as I know they have timing chains instead of belts. I've bought a few at the auctions and had great luck with them.
The older Honda's and Toyota's are great cars but if you buy a beater with 150K on it it may be in need of a timing belt.
The important thing is not to look for something with a timing chain, but rather to not get one with a timing belt and an interference engine(valves will hit the pistons if the belt breaks). If you get one with a timing belt and a non interference engine it is fine.
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Or get an S10 with a 3800.
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I haven't heard anything bad about a VW from someone that's driven one
I drove one. It was my girlfriends but I drove it frequently, including everything from being a dd to cross country road trips. It was a 2002 Jetta 1.8 turbo. It had little issues with it. The AC would never work, even after being fixed by the dealership many times. The auto tranny would stick in gears sometimes. The CEL would come on randomly. All in all it was a good car. 30mpg consistently on the highway. It was smooth and stable cruizing down the freeway. The only maintenance I did on it was rear brakes, which were not difficult. While driving across the state last August, cruizing at 55mph, the car shut off and left us stranded. The timing belt had failed. It bent most of the valves. She now drives a Blazer.
I'm not saying they're bad, but like any other vehicle, they have issues. As others have mentioned, ask to see proof of when the timing belt was changed. Change the oil on a regular basis. Try to get one with a manual trans.
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Not that I put much stock in Consumer Report, but scroll to the bottom of the page. My real problem with them is how they can end up with Two of the same items with different badging (S-10 Blazer but not the GMC Jimmy or an Escort but not a Mystique, ect.) one on the list of either "Good" or "Bad" & not the other. I have a friend that does appliance repair & he sees the same thing there...Two of the same washing machines, dryer, ect. labeled by a different company one on a list & one not.:-\ It looks like this years list is a bit closer as far as those types of things go...I'm sure they hear that kind of comment often & maybe are starting to "watch" how they do it. Their credibility as to "unbiased" facts would be hard to swallow when they claim a Caravan is "Good", but a Voyager is "Bad". There will allways be some on there that someone feels shouldn't be & vice versa, but it's just another source. Lorne
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/used-cars/cr-recommended/best-and-worst-used-cars/overview/best-and-worst-used-cars.htm
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lorne
escort -> tracer.
contour -> mystique.
i've owned enough furds to know what's compatible at the junkyard ;D
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I've got two late 90's Nissan 2WD, 4 cylinder, 5 speed pickups. I got one for 500 bucks, the other was free. Great trucks! I abuse them, neglect them, I expect them to run flawlessly even when the low fuel light has been on for a week. I don't have to worry about dents or scratches, because they were beat up when I got them. I don't have to worry about theft, because really....THOSE two trucks? Nah. They get good gas mileage. (I haven't filled a tank up in ages, so I can't give you an example.) And for having 200k and 250k miles on them, they run as good as a four cylinder can run. If that four cylinder hasn't been tuned up anyway. The only pampering they get is I use Mobil 1 Synthetic in them. And Rain-X on the windows. But the Rain-X is really more for me, I guess.
I've hit curbs. Mailboxes. Deer. Ditches. Shopping carts. Trees and other assorted shrubbery. I've gotten stuck and left them in the ditch and wasn't worried if someone would hit them. I eat in them and get food everyplace! (I'm kinda a sloppy eater when I'm driving.) I never worry about washing them on nice days, and I've NEVER waxed one of them! Dogs, cats, hobos, chupacabra....they can all pee on a tire and I don't stress about it. And if I'm not mistaken, they were both manufactured in Tennessee. And I'm sure Nissan is a great company to work for. So I don't feel bad about "buying foreign."
They can't haul much. They can't tow much. Seating three people on the cab is an uncomfortable joke. And you feel bad about yourself when you drive one, while you've got a beautiful Chevy truck in the garage. But, your Chevy stays beautiful this way.
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/9995/nissanssmall.jpg)
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My son in law bought a 2002 KIA Optima the other day for $3800.00. He paid a little too much. We had to change out the radiator and the starter right after he bought it. Had the rad repaired for $65 and the starter was $160.00. That a lot of our trucks starters worth. But the car was very easy to work on and layed out nicely under the hood. I was surprised. Much easier to work on than a Taurus.
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Vile: Way to rain on my parade. That was def not what I wanted to hear. Anyway I am still looking, found a few. Pursuing one in particular, its a "98 Passat 1.8L turbo with 5 speed 120k miles very clean car. has an electrical gremlin but the price is well within budget. I would like to hear more from drivers of said VWs, since I have heard lots from the mechanic point of view. I welcome the suggestions but I have a very tight budget with no fudge room, under 2k period. Most of those vehicles would be way out of my price range, and not really my style. I need something other than the Burb that I can drive back and forth to college. Thanks again.
I drove a A4 Quatto with the 12 valve V6 for 7 years as a daily driver. It is the same chasis as the Passat. I got it with 40k and sold it with 190k. In the time I owned it I replaced the AC compressor, the front suspension has 8 ball joints that are built into the 4 control arms per side. It was 5-600 for parts and you could do it yourself pretty easy and it needed it a few times and the wheel barrings once. That is all. It was still even on the original clutch after few learners beating on it as well to the point of having to wait for the clutch to cool down before it would grab at all.
Other than that I had it slightly lowered and used it like a rally car around MN where I was living at the time. Never missed a beat. I broke the oil pan twice, once ran it out of oil because I didn't notice (at 60k miles). Still never had a problem. Only sold it because I was getting to worry about the clutch, the non factory AC wasn't that good for AZ summers and the front ball joints where going to need replacing again.
The 1.8t's have oil sludge issues if the owner wasn't using good oil. They had coil pack issues that have been dealt with, the turbo is going to be suspect anywhere after 100-120k. Timing belts are a must and about 600 at a good shop. The rest is really solid on these (sunroofs, windows, locks, they don't rattle, etc). But if they do have issues, they are expensive. Even to work on your own you need to buy specialty tools. The 2 special sockets to change the trans fluid run about $50.
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1) i think vdubs are ok----as long as you keep up on maintenance(have the $$$ to) AND the dealer has a loaner car. i don't drive one myself, but i have friends that do.
2) Please see my upcoming thread concerning gm compacts.
a) i don't know why you had handling problems with a cavalier as i think they handle excellent for their class.
b) IF handling is a concern, then the 3rd generation trans-camaros can out handle any vw and get good mpg AND be much cheaper to fix than vw; You could buy 3 or 4 trans/camaros with what you'll spend on repairs for the vw.
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Except insuring a trans/camaro will cost more than the repairs to the VW, remember I'm under 25 yrs and male. Sports cars are out, or I would have a 76 jag no rust with a smallblock and 700r4 swap, that's class.
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That is true; trans/camaros will cost more to insure (thanks to bozos like the bridge incident in ohio), but i think the overall cost is still cheaper when all is said and done. Remember, a newer passat is not going to be cheap to insure either for a younger unmarried guy.
BTW my thread concerning gm compacts/daily drivers etc. is up.
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Except insuring a trans/camaro will cost more than the repairs to the VW, remember I'm under 25 yrs and male. Sports cars are out, or I would have a 76 jag no rust with a smallblock and 700r4 swap, that's class.
Do they consider the XJ6 a sports car? Classy and 4 doors... just a thought.
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http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2225521467.html
Here's a link to the one I was looking at, it might not be a sports car, since its 4 door. Doesn't matter though, don't have the time or the money or a garage to do the swap in.
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If you are worried about insurance and mileage I would suggest a compact truck with a 4cyl 5speed my insurance quote was 1000 dollars a year cheaper with a s10 over an altima but my insurance quote was extremely high so it may not be as drastic.
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http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2225521467.html
Here's a link to the one I was looking at, it might not be a sports car, since its 4 door. Doesn't matter though, don't have the time or the money or a garage to do the swap in.
Yes yes yes!!! 350/700R4 and cruise! You may want to gut the wiring and throw an american harness in there though, the british are notorious for junk electrical systems. My Mom's 96 Land Rover was a testement to that fact. I also got an ex a 74 MG that was my first experience with hand making a wiring harness... never again!
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I also got an ex a 74 MG that was my first experience with hand making a wiring harness... never again!
I worked on a MGB for someone quite a bit and learned alot about lucas wiring. Even if someone hacks one of our truck harnesses up it is still easier to fix than a MG.