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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Members Rides => Topic started by: 1979C20 on August 27, 2011, 07:23:32 am
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Since my mom is getting her insurance settlement, I'm going to be picking up my uncles K20 for $2500. Its got a built 383 stoker, TH400, NP205, D44 front, D60/14 bolt rear, 4.10 gears in both(it used to have 4.56s all locked up, but he put the stock ones back in). The cab is rusty, it has winch bumper front and rear(I think rear). when I get it, I'll be installing Mini Spools front and rear, Lock it up tight! I believe it already has manual hubs, but if not, I will be installing them. I'm not sure on the lift/tires. But I plan on a Rears Up Front conversion, 4-6 inch lift, high steer, 36's or so. I will begin rust repair when I'm done doing my body work and paint on my 79 C20. Here are some Google maps pictures. Its the best I have for now.
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee497/1979c20/79k20googlemaps2.jpg)
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee497/1979c20/79k20googlemaps.png)
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But I plan on a Rears Up Front conversion,
I've seen you mention this before. What is the reason for this? I've never heard of doing it before.
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I take it you don't plan on driving on the street.
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Spooled on the rear is a pain and lots of tire wear and drivetrain stress if you drive on the street. Something like a Detroit is much more street-able.
And a spooled front is a handful off road. It kills your turning ability.
From personal experience the best off-road set up is a spool in the rear and either a Detroit or even better a selectable air locker up front.
Air lockers are by far the best for street-ability, but expensive. Barring that, Detroits front and back are pretty livable on the street and very capable off road.
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so now youre not going to do a 4x4 conversion? I was looking forward to seeing that.
I would stay away from spools. If you really want spools, why not weld it instead? that is free. Get ARB lockers, best of both worlds.
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i believe this is another truck he is getting beastie.
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i know.
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I am with everyone else on this, spools are great for mud pit racing, but only problems on the street, I would really think about it before you spool up a street/off road machine.
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money can buy parts but something you cant buy
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Irish, what?
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Rears up front give more suspension flex. And make for a smoother ride compared to front lift springs. I have seen conversions for the rearend for hubs, on one or both wheels. Both wheels are the people who tow their vehicle with a tow bar, they unlock the hubs on all 4 wheels and dont need to worry about removing the driveline so, I figure if I put spools front and rear, I can convert one rear wheel to a hub and unlock that and the fronts around town. That will stop tire wear and stress on the axle shafts when turning. I am keeping both of my trucks, and I will probably drive my c20 more in town than my k20.
One reason I dont want to weld my gears is because the heat weakens everything. And, my dad needs to buy more argon and another spool or two of wire, which will equal out to the price of one spool. I am trying to save money by going the spool route instead of a locking diff, because theyre expensive. I dont think a spool will do too bad offroad. My dad has a detroit in the rrar of his jeep and on the street while turning you can hear it and feel it jump a cog on the locker and it will send you halfway into the other lane. It never jumps a cog offroad. Its just locked up tighted than a max pen. And I learned how to offroad the old person way. Slow and easy. So many people go out and hard wheel up the easiest hills and break something. My dads jeep is a t18 4 speed with granny low, amc 360, dana 18 tcase, and 4.27 gears front and rear. He puts his transfer case in low 4 and just idles up hills at 1 or 2 mph. Because its 6.32:1 granny, 2.48:1 tcase, and 4.27:1 rear with 33's which comes out to a final ratio of 65.58:1. So he just puts up hills. And thats how I learned. Im not going to get on a hil and floor it and start spinning tires and snap an axle shaft.
Beastie, sorry for the 4x2 to 4x4 disappointment. My dad said "if your getting your uncles truck you either have to sell your truck or sell that axle on the side of the house". So, im going to make my c20 into a street queen and my k20 into an offroad beast. I dont plan on driving the k20 much in town. Only when my c20 is down. And I plan on taking my k20 throigh the mud bogs, sand drags, and offroading at Sycamore Creek AZ, and Butcher Jones/Suguaro Lake AZ.
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Never heard of putting hubs on the rear axle.
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If it's got a full floater rear, can't those be unlocked? It's not an everyday thing but I thought you could actually disengage the axle shaft by grabbing the the center of the hub with a pair of channel locks and turning.
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If it's got a full floater rear, can't those be unlocked? It's not an everyday thing but I thought you could actually disengage the axle shaft by grabbing the the center of the hub with a pair of channel locks and turning.
??? ??? ???
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Further advantages of a full-floater include being able to remove a broken axleshaft, yet still have the ability to keep a functional rolling tire on that corner of the vehicle. This can be done since the wheel actually bolts to the hub that rides on the spindle attached to the axlehousing. If the axle has manual locking hubs, it may be possible to unlock the rear hubs for towing a disabled vehicle on the trail or for flat towing over the road.
Read more: http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0112or_semi_floating_and_full_floating_axles/index.html#ixzz1WHiwKjk4 (http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0112or_semi_floating_and_full_floating_axles/index.html#ixzz1WHiwKjk4)
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The stock axles will need to be replaced, as the stock axle has a plate made to connect axle shaft to the hub. The lock in/out hub replaces this connection. I used this type rear diff on my Zuk, to help with broken axles. Mine is a custom made from Spidertrax and uses stock Zuk front parts. Unlock all 4 and I can push it around in the shop with no problem
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Toolmaster, could you explain a bit more on which front parts you used?
I found this http://www.idaho4x4.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1101 (http://www.idaho4x4.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1101)
And I can't find too much more searching google. I'm hoping it will be easier to do than this. An old family friend of ours has a machine shop in his back yard. He has CNC, grinders, CAD tools, all kinds of stuff. If I could find a lockout hub that will bolt onto my wheel flange where my stock axles bolt, Could I have our friend machine the splines onto the ends of a piece of steel rod? one end that matches my carrier splines and the other end that matches the hub splines, and the right length to go from the carrier and into the hub? If that is possible, What kind of steel could I use for my custom axle shafts? I know the guy will probably only charge me 50 a shaft for the machining if I supply the steel.
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My application will not work with what you are trying to do. It took months of searching to come up with the proper parts and fitments. And it was not a cheep fix. I had a problem with stock axle's braking and not many Suzuki Samurai parts can be found anymore. I have not researched these parts for a D60 or a 14bolt, that will be up to you. I would start with a custom off-road shop in your area. They should know what parts will interchange and what will need to be machined and what your cost will be.
If it was mine, I would spent the $$$$ getting my truck up running and safe and not worry with upgrading parts that do not need it at this time. I would start with bearings, ball joints, tie rods, brake parts and u joints the list go's on and on.
Mike Phillips has a topic on his truck http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=21491.0 , look at what he found in the rear brakes. I would hate to know a truck I was driving on the road had that hidden problem. I'm sure Mike will make sure everything on that truck is safe for him and anyone around him before he takes it out on the road or trail.
As for your family friend machine shop in his back yard, Go tell him what you want and see what he has to say.
Best of luck with your truck, and be safe about it.
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If your flat towing put the 205 in neutral.
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Its not for flat towing. Its for less stress on the rear end in town.
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think it might be cheaper to get a air locker. after the spool then getting the parts for the locker might just be cheaper.
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Get a limited slip or electric locker.
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I've found 2 cheap ways to make this happen. I can find a hub with a pattern that matches my axle flange and have the shafts made with splines on both ends. An external locking hub like this. But one that has 8 bolt pattern that will match my axle flange mounting surface or can be modified to match it.
(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/296451936/lockout_hubs_of_AVM.jpg)
Or, I could make an Axle shaft spacer, that goes between the axle shaft flange and the drum assembly, and spaces it enough that it disconnects from the carrier. And attach it using longer bolts. Just pull the axle shaft out, slide the spacer onto it, then bolt it back onto the drum assy. I think I'd rather do the hub idea, because it would be a lot quicker and a whole lot easier to disengage the axle shaft from the tire. Here is my idea on ms paint, its the best way to get my idea across. This took me 4 hours to finish because of my OCD. Obvously, it is very basic and not to scale.
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee497/1979c20/axleshafts.jpg)
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I think im going to attempt the hub route. What material should I make the axle shaft out of? If I went to pick a part and bought axle shafts do you think I could have our family friend maching the mounting flange off and spline the end?
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If you are using a 14-bolt FF rear, and want to graft lockouts onto it, look for a set of lockouts from a Dodge W250~W350. These had an 8-bolt flange, although I don't know if they are the same bolt circle as the 14-bolt's hub, it would give you a place to start.
Also you can get these aftermarket with either a 30, or 35 spline.
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I'm not sure if its a 14b or a dana 60 but I'm pretty sure its a full floater. I'm looking into the pattern for the dodge front hubs. Thanks.
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Do the fenders off a c50 bolt right up to a normal cab? This looks freakin MEAN!
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/blazer1.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/kitimatdude/HPIM0435.jpg)
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Its not for flat towing. Its for less stress on the rear end in town.
??? Am I the only one who is not following what you are trying to accomplish here?
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Its not for flat towing. Its for less stress on the rear end in town.
??? Am I the only one who is not following what you are trying to accomplish here?
This reminds me of something that my dad used to tell me. "GM spent a lot more money on research and development than the guys that write the articles in those magazines that you read." He also used to tell me "Before you go cobbing that perfectly good truck up with aftermarket stuff make sure that is what you want because it will cost that much again to undo your upgrades that didn't work out like you expected.". I rarely listened when I was younger but have since learned that sometimes modifications take away from what you started with.
I didn't understand the need for this either but figured that you must be sold on the idea. Make sure that it will move your project forward instead of set it back. Do your homework on this before you spend the money.
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Its not for flat towing. Its for less stress on the rear end in town.
??? Am I the only one who is not following what you are trying to accomplish here?
I thought he was trying to figure a way to run a full spool on the street ... by unlocking one of the rear hubs. Personally I would go with something like a Detroit ... or an ARB if I was flush.
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Paniolo is correct. I will have a back up if the hubs dont work. Ill carry around a a set of splined axle flanges that can bolt in place of the hub if something goes wrong. If anything, ill run the hubs in town only and if I go out ill slap the splined flanges on. I would love to have a nice expensive locker instead. But thats the thing. Expensive. Our family friend can machine tge double splined axle shafts and flanges for real cheap, I can buy a set of hubs for fairly cheap and my dad is buying the spools for me. Its the cheapest route for me. And if I go through hubs, I can just leave the splined flanges on, or even have an axle flange made with a bearing instead of splines so it free spins.
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well why not just do a dual transfers stick and unlock one of your front spooled and leave the rear in neutral then just a a fwd trick with a locked rear. dont know if the wear on the rear will be less but it might due to the fact your not using them to push
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A spool runs mid $100 range. A lock-right can be found mid $300 and the Detroit mid $400.
Still think you will be time and money ahead to get a rear locker since it sounds like street use will be the primary task. Even if you forego the front for now. Get your parents to kick in whatever they were going to for both spools and chip in the difference for a lock-right. Then save your pennies to get the front spool in a few months.
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we been trying to tell him this. Also not sure but wouldn’t a loss of traction be a issue when you turn to the side that has power?
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Look around for a used Detroit.
They show up on eBay from time to time for less than new.
I got a 35 spline PowerLok off of eBay for my Dana60 front for $199.00. Those normally go for $425.00+.
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Quick update. Im picking up the truck within the next week. I found a cab on craigslist for 50 obo. Its a 79 cab with title, no doors, has windshield and rear window, rust free with unmolested wiring and ac. The K20 has brand new fenders on it, but I will be putting those on my c20. Im trying to find a c50 front clip for the k20. Im putting my after market doors on my c20 and my old c20 doors on the k20. Cant wait to get it!
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I agree with what these guys are sayin, just save up for a detroit, even a used one. I was more or less keeping up with this thread, but it hurt my brain a couple times, and I think the whole hubed rear-end thing is gonna be more trouble than its worth.
Since you're gonna have a K20, I think its time to drop the C20. ;D
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Actually, im going to lower my c20 an inch or two just for a better stance, then put some fatty tires on the rear. Its gonna be my street beast and my k20 is going to be my offroad beast.
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After I move again, which will be in a few weeks, I'm gonna finally get the 74 in order. I need to replace the steering box and pump, then drop it. When I can do without it for a few weeks, it'll get shortened. I have a buddy thats willing to weld it up for me.
I'm very excited about this. End this year on a high note!
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Well, good news. My mom promised me 2800 dollars to me on my 18th birthday that I got from a lawsuit in 3rd grade because a kid broke my nose and didn't get punished, so we sued the school district because the teacher and staff of the school were mentally challenged when it cane to any sort of discipline or intervening. Well, she gave me 300 cash today, I picked up a rust free, dent free, clean cab with all wiring intact and ac intact with a clean title 53,000 original miles for 50 bucks. Ill have pictures of it tomorrow. Then, I can get my license reinstated any time after Monday the 26th. My mom is going to write a cashiers check for 2500 in the next few days. So sometime during next week or weekend my dads driving.me up to his uncles and I'm driving my big, yellow, soon-to-be beast, K20 home. I cant wait. List of things I'm going to do.....
Pull fenders off of both trucks
put K20's brand new fenders on C20
pull interior out of K20, and take cab off
Split the tcase and tranny so I can remove the shift rail to grind it for Twin Stick
put high hump tunnel in the new cab out of the old
put new cab on K20
put my aftermarket doors on the C20 with my C20s internals
put my C20s doors on the K20 with new cab and K20s internals
put my C20s old fenders on the K20 until i find a C50-60 front clip
primer both vehicles
paint C20 with chosen scheme and design
decide on k20 paint
Those are the first things I'm worried about. Ill deal with positraction later on down the road. Spool in front and ?? In rear.