73-87chevytrucks.com
General Site Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: bladerunner on December 16, 2011, 07:38:16 am
-
So I found a few weeks ago that the wife and I are expecting our first kid. I am pretty stoked about it. Of all the discussions that come up in a time like this, my least favorite is car safety. Once you have kids I guess it always comes up. Anyway, We have 3 vehicles: my wife's Subaru wagon (mom-mobile), a 2000 Honda Prelude which I never drive, and my 85 squarebody. I live 5 miles from work, so I usually take the K10. I drive through town mostly. Anyway, I will likely need to pick up the kiddo from my Mom's everyonce and a while after work. Everyone is advising me to not take the truck, which I am fine with. But they are also complaining about the smallness of the Honda. So I am thinking of selling the Honda for something safer for kid chauffeuring.
My question regards the overall safety of old vehicles, like our trucks. Some guys are insistent that old American Steel is best and is all you need, especially when compared to the smaller cars of today. Personally, I think that is bunk. Safety features today on cars make old cars looks like veritable death traps, which I am ok with. I drive it, my choice.
Can anyone speak to the relative safety of 73-87s (and no I am not talking about the side saddle tank myth, I know it is bunk as well)? My wife seems to want to keep me around for sometime and she wants to be reassured. I told her that relative to newer cars and trucks, my truck is not as safe. I am fine with that, she is not.
-
I have 2 car seats in my 82. Make sure they are properly and securely install and you should be fine. I'll put her up against any new little crackerbox.
-
i think about this too alot. While the newer and current silverados have very improved "crashability," i don't think 73-91 squares are "deathtraps." i feel that the 73-91's are safe and the current trucks are even safer.
And the new trucks have multiple airbags----but when was the last time you had to use one?
i drive nothing but older vehicles (see my thread "If you think honda and toyota are king......") and i generally don't feel un-safe compared to the newer offerings. (Well, ok i do, but this is due mostly to size not age)
i don't know---i guess if you did alot of 2-lane driving and/or at night then maybe you would want to go newer?
P.S. i guess looking at some videos may help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2HwFaT0n64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc5Lu2dMoj8
There's more but i can't find them.
-
i drive nothing but older vehicles (see my thread "If you think honda and toyota are king......") and i generally don't feel un-safe compared to the newer offerings. (Well, ok i do, but this is due mostly to size not age)
i don't know---i guess if you did alot of 2-lane driving and/or at night then maybe you would want to go newer?
I should point out that I am not thinking of getting rid of the truck. That said, no I don't drive much at night (not in the truck anyway) though 2 lane driving I do. Most of the roads are such as it is fairly rural here, though multi-lane highways would worry me more personally.
In a lot of ways, I have to drive much more conscious of the road as I know I don't have ABS, traction control, etc. to help me out. This is a fact of life in an older ride. So I brake more often and sooner. I don't drive erratically. That should make it safer. It is other yahoos you worry about. So for myself, I will probably get a safe car or wagon for driving the kid and keep the truck for fun and hauling.
All that said, I am thinking of replacing the bench seat with something more modern (read as having headrests). A fender-bender resulting in me whacking my head on the rear glass is disquieting.
-
You said a mouthful Bladerunner!!! It is the other yahoos that worry me. All of them think because they have traction control they can go faster. I think common sense is less common nowadays. I live in the snowbelt here in NW Indiana and only wished a couple of times I had a 4x4 just to make things a bit easier. When I did have one I had to constantly remind myself that although I had the extra drive tire, I couldn't stop any faster. Lack of seatbelts saved my Dads live when he got T-Boned back when he had a 67 Ford he drove.
-
You said a mouthful Bladerunner!!! It is the other yahoos that worry me. All of them think because they have traction control they can go faster. I think common sense is less common nowadays.
Too true. New cars are very responsive, handle great and ride like Lazy Boys. Frankly, I find it all too easy to drive erratic or distracted in a new car or truck. You are less connected to the road and to what you SHOULD be doing. In the truck, I am on alert, aware of my short comings. But, all the defensive driving in the world won't save you from an aggressive driver, bad driver.
One thing I feel maybe in the favor of an old truck is low speed crashes. The lack of deformation of an old car in a high speed accident can cause a faster deceleration, thus transferring the energy of the crash to the cab and thus the occupants. Newer cars with crumple zones, etc. deform better, absorbing that impact. Well a lower speed crash that might not be such a bad thing, though whiplash can still be an issue (best of luck negating that in any crash though).
And zieg, i live in Maine and you are preaching to the choir about 4WD. Some folks think it makes them impervious to the effects of slick and snow. Just ain't true. Half the time, its guys in pickups and moms in SUVs in the ditch along the highway following a storm. Drive slow, seriously. And I hate it when I get to work and people complain about being stuck behind someone going 25 on a city street in heavy snow as if getting where they need to go trumps getting there in one piece.
-
Sensible driving, about 800 lbs of weight secured directly over the rear axle and a good set of snow tires. I prefer my C20 with the stick shift because I feel I have better control with engine braking. I am rural and the first 200 feet is getting out of my driveway. The next 1.2 miles gets me to a state route road. If I don't feel safe by the time I get there it isn't worth going. I am not going to get wrecked if it is to bad out. I drive a 2011 Ford Escape FWD for a company car and still feel safer in 1985 C20
-
Good spot on those videos Stewie. Here is another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np6wciDSynU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np6wciDSynU)
I should point out that this video was at only 20 MPH and, as one commenter pointed out, that the contact area of that test was pretty big. The side impacts they do now often replicate full size pickups much better than a flat board attached to a frame.
I also found an IIHS video on pickup safety and you can see they are using a squarebody for testing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1mBKeUeLo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1mBKeUeLo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkyKk7nX20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMkyKk7nX20)
And here is another good one. Side impact on an 86 at 40 MPH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrNCKRiXa70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrNCKRiXa70)
Quick questions: when did GM start putting collapsible steering columns in their trucks?
-
I'd drive whatever I owned to pick up the kids and not worry. If my ride was that unsafe (cept for a motorcycle) I wouldn't be driving it myself.
A heck of a lot of us 40 years old or less grew up in these trucks and made it out fine.
Besides havent you seen that old mitsubishi commercial for the SUV? the kid in the big SUV could see everything while the kid in the small sedan couldnt see crap. I know I liked riding in my dads truck way more than even the mustang he had, cuz I could see stuff. :D
Comparing old trucks to new trucks safety wise... all the newer trucks have is crumple zones. even air bags dont count because you have to turn them off to have a small child ride in that spot. As long as it has shoulder belts, I think its safe.
-
I use to pick up my son every day after work in my 85 k10. now that i have 2 kids we just use my wife's car but still every weekend my oldest who is 2 years old still ride around town in the truck. I feel he likes it better because he can see where he is going. like said be for if it was unsafe i would not have it on the road
-
My kid has been riding in my 79 big 10, 91 sub, new escape and 96 Taurus all without problem. My wife once asked why I am able to put the car seat in the 79 (one bench seat). I asked what she meant, there is no air bag on my 79. People nowadays don't even know why you should not put car seats in front seats----it deson't apply to pre air bag cars/trucks.
I have no problem with any of these vehicles. Yeah, there are no crumple zones on the 79, so what? It is real metal and quite safe inside it. I crashed a '68 mustang many years ago and can attest to the fact that old metal cars create quite a harsh impact (i was thrown into the floor) because there is little to no energy absorption. The human gets full force of the impact.
There are older vehicles like my mustang that have no steering column breaks like there are now. Makes a bad day if column is pushed towards the driver.
-
I would sell the lude and buy a accord sadan :) I loved my 93 and vary much safe. Also look at you state laws here in wv it is illegal to put kids under 50lb/4years old in the front seat or in a standard cab pickup >.< my brother got a ticket for that and child sevices came to his house!
-
Child seat laws in Maine state that a child should be secured in a back seat if available. If not, the passenger side air bag needs to be disabled or none present. So technically, they could ride in the passenger seat. Still, for my wife's sake I will sell the Prelude and go looking for something else.
-
Go with a smart car or a Volvo...safest rides on the road as long as you don't mind not having a 'man card'...lol
-
I was thinking of a Volvo. I will still have the truck so I would hope my man card would be somewhat intact. Smart Car no. I know people say they are safe, but size does count for something.
-
My 3yrs old loves to ride in my '85 K20 burb. Her booster seat is in the back passenger seat, statistically the safest seat in a vehicle. In just about any situation except possibly a rollover I think she is safer in my burb than almost any new vehicle. And like stated above, she loves it because she can see out of it. If anyone runs into it they are in serious doodoo since mine is lifted.
-
The newer volvos really aren't that bad lookin of cars...I've seen alot worse. Subarus are supposed to be safe, plus you get the awesome AWD setup, and your 'man card' wouldn't take a hit (unless you get the Baja...then we might quesion your sexuality...lol). Even the Subaru Outbacks are respectable. My boss bought one a year or so ago and loves it. No problems, good fuel milage, and plenty of room. No complaints about a lack of power, either. It may be worth looking into.
-
agreed about not getting a smart car i dont know how it got that good of a safety rating but by what i have seen for impact tests the car goes poof when hit
-
Also look at you state laws here in wv it is illegal to put kids under 50lb/4years old in the front seat or in a standard cab pickup >.< my brother got a ticket for that and child sevices came to his house!
i find that hard to believe to have a blanket rule like that. Especially in WV where so many have pickups. Yes, that may be true for air bag vehicles, but it doesnt matter one bit if it is a pre-air bag vehicle. As I posted, people seem to forget why the front seat is dangerous to car seats--it's because of air bags and if your car doesn't have an air bag....well....
-
Never heard of a particular type of vehicle being illegal for a particular type of child. Sounds like WV is where the ruskies landed first. Sue WV, if you dont win in a state court its 95.345% guaranteed you will win when it reaches a federal court.
If they threatened taking my kid away because she rode in an old delapidated pickemup truck like mine, you can bet id make it to at least national news with the stink id stir up.
You are required to wear seatbelts... if the car came with them factory equipped. otherwise, you're exempt. your brother got shafted and shouldnt take that crap.
-
agreed about not getting a smart car i dont know how it got that good of a safety rating but by what i have seen for impact tests the car goes poof when hit
The outer skin goes poof, but they have some super high strength 'roll cage'- type skeleton that makes the car safe. I, personally don't trust it, and initially said it as a joke, but, in all seriousness, you can't argue with crash tests.
-
Best Old vs New comparison I've seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g)
-
Good find...it's a shame they ruined such a nice car, though...lol
-
I've seen the Malibu vs Bel Air video quite a bit. It is a shame to ruin that car, but I get the point. In all fairness though, the Bel Air has no seat belts, no collapsible steering column, no head rests, no crumple zones, no nothing. It is pretty bare bones. Anything made in the 80s is still better, though not great.
-
after viewing a few of those crash test videos, this vid pops up...best burnout...wow!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unwujSVpZwA&feature=related
-
after viewing a few of those crash test videos, this vid pops up...best burnout...wow!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unwujSVpZwA&feature=related
Speaking of safety!
Not a bad way to spend $300 I guess.
-
i drive nothing but older vehicles (see my thread "If you think honda and toyota are king......") and i generally don't feel un-safe compared to the newer offerings. (Well, ok i do, but this is due mostly to size not age)
i don't know---i guess if you did alot of 2-lane driving and/or at night then maybe you would want to go newer?
I should point out that I am not thinking of getting rid of the truck. That said, no I don't drive much at night (not in the truck anyway) though 2 lane driving I do. Most of the roads are such as it is fairly rural here, though multi-lane highways would worry me more personally.
In a lot of ways, I have to drive much more conscious of the road as I know I don't have ABS, traction control, etc. to help me out. This is a fact of life in an older ride. So I brake more often and sooner. I don't drive erratically. That should make it safer. It is other yahoos you worry about. So for myself, I will probably get a safe car or wagon for driving the kid and keep the truck for fun and hauling.
All that said, I am thinking of replacing the bench seat with something more modern (read as having headrests). A fender-bender resulting in me whacking my head on the rear glass is disquieting.
i was just thinking about this as well. i brought this up in another thread but i think it warrants another review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGVt14jSyUw
i'm thinking of putting 3/4 plywood and lots of foam for cushioning back there. It won't be perfect but it's better than nothing.
b) So there are no side door beams?
2) There is a video of a frontal crash test of a suburban with the camera INSIDE. i have seen it---it's very graphic. i am currently looking for it.
-
The other thing i want to bring up is are there such things as rear-facing child seats? Sounds like a good idea.
-
rear facing child seats are the law in VA if your kid is under 1 yr old.
-
Wow, this was a hot topic. I would like to make a couple of points. It is true that newer vehicles have more safety devices, which they should. But if one of our trucks and say a Volvo get in a head on crash ( depending on speed ), the truck is going to crush or run over the Volvo due to shear mass ( the same could be said of one of our trucks and a semi). Now the occupants inside is a different story. ( as long as it is not too fast the people in the Volvo will be more protected )
All I can say if from experience. When I was 15, my sister was driving our old 66 Chevy to school, hit black ice and ran off the road. Now that doesn't sound bad, except where we went off was a 20 to 25 foot drop, we went straight into a telephone pole 20-25 feet in the air, split the pole and then proceeded to slide down the pole with the top cracked section coming down with us.
To make a long story short, if we were in a newer car, I do not think I would be here to tell the story. I live in Cal. and drive with some of the rude-is people on the road. I am always observant of everything around me and an escape route if needed. I do not leave my families or myself safety up to "others". There are times when you just can not avoid "others", but I like to believe that I am in control when I drive, not the other way around.
-
I do not leave my families or myself safety up to "others". There are times when you just can not avoid "others", but I like to believe that I am in control when I drive, not the other way around.
Pretty much key. You could be driving the safest vehicle on the planet, and if you are a distracted, aggressive driver, it won't stop you from getting hurt or killed.
So specific safety question: I know the C/K trucks never came with headrests until the 88-98 run of vehicles. When did the Blazers and Burbs start coming with buckets with headrests? I am seriously thinking of swapping out my bench for buckets with headrests. Any specifics would help?
-
Pickup trucks did not have headrests til 1992. If that is a worry find some high back bucket seats and install them. Pretty much a plug and play with minor modifications if taken from a Suburban up to 1991.
-
Are the high back buckets full headrests or do they only go part way up the neck. I feel like the seats from late 80s early 90s Burbs were full headrests.
-
Full, look at 78 Chevyrado's truck build. I have that same set in my 86 I am building. It is a nice conversion, I am actually looking for a decent pair for my extended cab.
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php/topic,22292.0.html is a picture of them...
-
Nice! I got to get me some of them!
-
i got headrests on my 91 v2500 sub...they are kind of built in to the seats.....towards the bottom of this site you see some shots of my interior www.delbridge.net/suburban
-
i got headrests on my 91 v2500 sub...they are kind of built in to the seats.....towards the bottom of this site you see some shots of my interior www.delbridge.net/suburban
I am pretty sure those are seats the conversion company installed looking at the lever. They did a great job at matching the factory fabric. My 91 did not being a standard Silverado.
-
i was just thinking about this as well. i brought this up in another thread but i think it warrants another review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGVt14jSyUw
i'm thinking of putting 3/4 plywood and lots of foam for cushioning back there. It won't be perfect but it's better than nothing.
b) So there are no side door beams?
2) There is a video of a frontal crash test of a suburban with the camera INSIDE. i have seen it---it's very graphic. i am currently looking for it.
That video really brings it home. Iacocca was clearly spouting off the company line saying head rests are frivolous add ons. This just shows how non-safety oriented the automotive industry was up until recently (read as 20 years ago). Again, good to hear. No reason to give up your ride, but maybe think about things we could do to make them safer.
-
couple good points where made on here for one cars have door beams trucks dont due to trucks being seen as commercial they dont have to comply to passenger vehicles laws. so cars will be safer and newer trucks would be better with the air bag turned off. and the smart car test i saw the car pretty much flew off the track and the only thing that stopped it was the building wall lol. our if i had a burb i would put my little one in the back middle only so i have more room up front since i have my trucks and my impala he rides in the back of the impala when he can and i keep my man card, and the imp is pretty fast being charged 8). but the only reason hes not in my 79 is for one its not being ran right now and 2 if it was running i have open headers