73-87chevytrucks.com
73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Interior & Equipment => Seats and Restraints => Topic started by: PromiseKeeper on March 15, 2012, 12:55:25 pm
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I have a chance at possibly picking up a set of 60/40 seats out of an early 90's Caddy De ville. Some rough measurements look like they might work in my '80 C-10. (I'm sure some modifications will have to take place) They are electric, have lumbar, heated....the works. Looks too good to be true...what am I missing? Anyone done this before? Thanks!
Scott
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Sounds like it might work. With the right brackets anything is possible. check the length of the lower seat cushion compared to stock. I think the caddys have big seat bottoms. Let us know sounds interesting
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I did end up getting them. Actually, the bottoms are real close to the same depth. I was surprised at that too! I'm hoping the height is close too. The rails look like they are placed where mounting should be pretty straight foreward too. The hump in the Caddy was actually higher than the truck so that should work too. I guess the final test will be when I set them in there for the first time. Pull-A-Part let me use a battery pack on the car so I could move the seats and get to the bolts. That gave me a chance to make sure everything worked! Sorting out the wiring should prove interesting since the controls were mounted on the door panel.
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Detail the install for us and take pics if possible, so the rest of us can see how you did it. Maybe another type of seat for those of us looking for a option.
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As long as the seat itself isnt tall, from floor to seat surface, it will work fine.
My old 77 had a set of 6-way power bucket seats out of a '78 Grand Prix, and they worked great, Just had to make some pita looking brackets for it. I don't remember them much now, as my dad did this swap back in the late 80's.
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Well guys, I hit the first snag. First off, the seat controls are on the door instead of the seat. The passenger side was easy. (This is a 60/40 seat) There were 10 wires at the door switch that matched to the 10 wires coming out of the pigtail at the seat. I spliced them together, powered it up and everything worked great. Now, to the driver's side. Again, 10 wires at the door switch. But under the seat, the only thing that plugs in are the power and ground wires, an air bag connector, and two other wires that run the heated seat and the power lumbar (switches for these are mounted on the side of the seat.) I can't find ANYTHING that looks like the wiring for the seat function controls. I even went back to Pull-A-Part and looked at the car wiring again. thinking I must have missed a connector or something. I pulled the door panel and even took the wiring harness apart. I can't figure out how this thing works! If there are any Caddy techs out there, I'd sure appreciate some advice on this one! Thanks!!
Scott
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Could the air bag be wired in series with the seat ? You do not have the air bag wires hooked up do you ? I am wondering if they need to be hooked up to run the seat on the drivers side.
Maybe check with a Caddy forum and see if anyone there can help.
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I think you must have a seat controlled by digital signal. Can you get up into the seat at all to see if there is a circuit board or actually view the motors? If you can hook into the motor wires you can control it directly. Good luck. I did a quick search and found this:
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/2011/01/cadillac-caterra-power-seats.html (http://route60garage.blogspot.com/2011/01/cadillac-caterra-power-seats.html)
Not exactly the same but may be a clue.
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I I just started as a tech at a Caddy dealer about a year ago. Im not too familiar with the older wiring systems. Im off tomorrow. Wheb im back in ill see what i can come up with
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Bake: I wondered about that myself but don't see any of the wires from the seat switches going to the air bag stuff. There is some kind of air bagbox under the front drivers seat. Since this is a junk yard car, I was able to pull up the carpet and take a good look at that.
jaredts: I just don't know?? Would something like that been used in '98? I'm thinking that isn't the case or there wouldn't be so many wires coming out of the door switch. The thing that puzzles me is, that wasn't the case on the passenger side.
heavychevy91: Thanks for checking!!!
I'm going to stop at the local Caddy dealership this morning and see what I can find out and hopefully come away with a wiring diagram.
Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted on the progress or lack thereof!
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Just got back from the dealership. They took me out in the shop to talk with a tech that thought I had a pretty cool project going! He printed me out some wiring diagrams, gave me a few things to look for and told me if I don't get it going to bring the seat by the garage sometime and he'll take a look at it. He also told me there could be a module that also involves the power mirror, but can probably bypass.
Hopefully will get to play with it in a day or two and will keep you posted. He said there is a way to do it, we just have to find it!
I'm wondering if I should have waited to find a seat that had the controls mounted on the seat, but this will definately be a learning experience! It never crossed my mind that it would get complicated... but that's part of the fun, right?
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If you're not able to get it, I should be able to help out. I've got access to all the wiring diagrams. Just need to know a year and which model deville it came out of. (Gives the seat options, etc) With that, I could probably draw up a wiring diagram for you to get it all working.
Are you wanting to keep all of the functions? If so, how do you plan on controlling them? Did you get the switch panels from the doors?
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Now my curiosity has the best of me, I want to know what it is and how you got it to work.
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Avidyn: These are out of a '98 Deville. Not sure what you are asking when you say what model Deville? I'm pretty certain it does not have the "memory" seat. I may take a ride back to the boneyard again and get a VIN so the dealership can look up info for that car if needed. I did get the door switches. That is what I'm trying to hook up. I would like to keep all the functions. I really appreciate your offer and that would be great! Let me know what other info you might need. I have the passenger seat working, the driver's side is the one that is making me scratch my head.
Bake, I wish you were here to help figure this out!! So far it's been fun chasing down the info. I never knew how complicated the wiring could get. What I can't figure is why the drivers seat is so different from the passenger side?
I really appreciate everyone's help! You guys are awesome!
Scott
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This is just a thought, you don't have to be sitting in the seat for it to adjust ? I know most of them you don't, but I thought I would throw that out there.
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The tech gave me two sets of schematics: one for a seat with memory and one without. After taking apart the wiring under the seat and checking the schematics, I'm now thinking I DO have the seat with the memory. I'm seeing two purple wires feeding into the seat from below and not the bundle that the passenger seat has. From what I'm seeing, these are data wires coming from a memory module somewhere on the car! The ten wires from the control switch feeds into this module and the data is transferred to another module under the seat. Sooo.... off to Pull-A-Part for a module hunt! Funny thing is, I don't recall any kind of memory button anywhere. Hopefully the owners manual is in the car!
Bake, you may have been onto something with the air bag question. I do remember those purple wires (which I now suspect are the data wires) headed toward a box under the seat that was marked air bag. The tech told me there was a sensor that tightened the seat belt connected to the air bag in the event of a crash. As for the adjust, anything is possible I guess! I haven't powered this up yet until I figure out the switch issue.
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Can you not get to the wires directly on the motors or to the module that has outputs to the motors? It would be nice to bypass all that and run the motors directly I would think.
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Yes it would be nice to do that, but I'm not sure it would be that simple. All of the motors have a common power supply and the wires that control the functions are the only ones easily accesable. They are a much heavier wire than the ones at the switch. Wouldnt I need a double set of wires to put the switch in line with the motors? I tracked down the module that I THINK I need and am going to give it a try. If you can tell me how to bypass all of the electronics, that would be awesome! Thanks!
Scott
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If you can figure out the electronics, that's great. If not, you could get a power seat switch out of a vehicle that has a normal setup. I don't know about yours, but there is commonly: seat front/back, rear of seat up/down, and entire seat up/down. In that case there would be three motors that are reversible. A power seat switch with similar gauge wires to what's on the motors would probably do it. This is, of course, if you can get to the individual motor wires without tearing up the seat.
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I just thought about the fact that it has memory seats. I don't know how they work, but it seems that the electronics would require position feedback to know where it is in relationship to where it should be. It may have a little cylindrical can with a couple of wires (an encoder) on or near the motors. Hopefully it still has regular two wire dc motors.
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If you can figure out the electronics, that's great. If not, you could get a power seat switch out of a vehicle that has a normal setup. I don't know about yours, but there is commonly: seat front/back, rear of seat up/down, and entire seat up/down. In that case there would be three motors that are reversible. A power seat switch with similar gauge wires to what's on the motors would probably do it. This is, of course, if you can get to the individual motor wires without tearing up the seat.
I haven't been able to spend much time on this lately but I did get the wiring to work. On the driver's side that had the memory, I did what Jared suggested. There are a total of SIX motors in each of these seats, which includes 2 for the Lumbar. I found seat switches out of another car with heavy wiring that had power leads going into the switch and wired each function up directly. With a second switch, I wired up the two remaining motors that control the lumbar functions. I've been taking pics and will get them up eventually!
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Looking forward to pics and progress report.
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Latest update: Set the seats in the truck to see how much "customizing" would be needed. Pleasantly surprised that a couple of pieces of square tubing should make it work. Now, needless to say, these Cadillac seats are much more plush...and thick. The biggest obstacle is going to be the part that hangs over my belt getting in the way of the steering wheel!!! Now the project may have to include a smaller wheel! :))
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Now we really need pics, you are teasing us. :D
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Here are some pics of where things are at so far. I wont post about the passenger seat because it was straight forward. I took the door controls off and they wired directly to the existing wiring in the seat. The lumbar switch and heat are mounted on the side of the seat.
Next picture is the wiring on the back of the door switch... notice how fine the wires are
Next is the underside of the seat. There is a fourth motor that isn't shown, along with 2 more in the seat back for the lumbar. I tried to wire up the door switch as I did with the passenger side, but after tracing the wiring, found that it was hooked into the air bag system, the memory, and possibly the remote mirror. The wiring on this side did not coincide with the other door switch.
The fourth pic is the module that I found above the gas pedal. The wires on the left that are knotted together went all the way to the door switch. Look at how many wires come OUT of that box! They went to places unknown! The only wires coming out of the seat were purple. I did try to hook all of this up and use the purple wires that I suspect are data wires... but it didn't work.
That's all the pics I can post in this post.... see the next one for more.
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After thinking about what Jared said, I decided the best and easiest thing to do would be to eliminate all of the modules and such if I could find a switch that would work. At first I thought about using toggle switches, but soon found out this would be more complicated than that. What I needed was a switch from an electric seat that was powered directly. The switch in the picture has a power (orange), ground (black) and from there, the colors matched up with the colors going to the motors. It came from another Caddy. I brought both switches (driver and passenger) home. I used 2 of the functions on the second switch to power the lumbar motors. Note that the wires are the same gauge as those going directly to the motors.
The second picture is all of the wiring that I eliminated! This includes the door switch, module above the gas pedal, and another module in the seat itself. The module in the passenger seat was where I hooked the door switch to on the other side.
I used a battery charger to power it up and everything works! Next will be actually installing the seats... stay tuned!
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WOW, you just got schooled in Caddy powered seats. How do you feel ? ;D
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Nice job figuring that out. I'd love to see a pic when its all done.
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WOW, you just got schooled in Caddy powered seats. How do you feel ? ;D
Like any therapy, it is sometimes painful! ;) I have to admit that I learned alot. It became like a personal challenge! Projects like this are great stress reducers! Thanks to all who gave suggestions!
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Don't forget to post up pics of the finished product!
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Had a couple of hours to mess with it over the weekend. First pic is how I took care of mounting the seat. Rear is a piece of 2 inch square tubing and the front is 1 1/2 inch. I have it all mocked up to bolt in permanently. I forgot about the heat shield for the catalytic converter being where the bolts need to come through the floor so it will be coming out. I did away with the cat last year.
The door side seat rails are bolted directly to the floor
I'm using about 3 inch square pieces of 1/4 inch steel to reinforce the area where I'm putting the mounting bolts to make it stronger in case of a wreck.
Second pic is what the seat looks like mounted.
One more to go!
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Those look like nice seats, are they as comfortable as they look ?
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yes they are :)) If I had Zieg's extended cab, I could lean back and have a place to sleep when I'm in the dog house ;)
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yes they are :)) If I had Zieg's extended cab, I could lean back and have a place to sleep when I'm in the dog house ;)
He said he might be thinking of selling it.
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Sorry for the delay guys, life just gets busy sometimes! Anyways, here is the promised pic of the finished project. Thanks for all the help and advice!
Scott
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Promisekeeper, those look nice. Are they hooked up with all the power options still ?
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I wanna do that. Get one with power lumbar and all the rest of the goodies.
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Bake,
Everything works on the seats. All I need to do is hook up the power to the fuse block. I'm in no real hurry to do that since there isn't alot of room in that cab for adjustments. Once you get them where you want them, you dint move them much anyways. It was really helpful to be able to raise and lower them while installing!
Skunksmash,
I learned the hard way that it can be done, but if you look for seats my advice would be to get seats that have all the switches mounted on the seats if possible. It took some figuring out to make these work since the switches were in the doors of the donor vehicle. However, these were nice enough that I would do it again. Like anything else, I could do it much faster the second time! These are even heated, so the dog might get spoiled this fall ;)
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Going to the salvage yard in the morn to pull my seats out of a 98 deville with dual heated seats. Couple questions. Are the seat belt buckles the same as far as the caddy buckle and the truck belt? From what it looks like you might have gotten the switch for the power seats out of a seville. They had a hump mounted center counsel and floor shifter would i be correct? Also would you mind providing some pics on how the doorside seat mounted to the cab? From what i see the seats look like they slide into a channel on the front seat tracks and are held in by 2 bolts in the rear.
Sorry for all the questions.
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No the seat belts are not the same. Someone mentioned a safety issue you may want to consider. The Caddy belts are mounted to the seat vs the truck belts are bolted to the floor. If your mounting of the Caddy seats will not survive a crash, as in coming loose from the floor, your seatbelts would be rendered useless. I opted to keep my floor mounted belts for that reason.
I'm not sure what model Caddy the switches came from and don't know if they were even bucket seats.
I mounted the seats in the rear directly to the floor. In the front, because the floor isn't level, I used the appropriate size square tubing to shim them up. I cut out 3X3 inch squares of 1/8 inch steel to use as reinforcement underneath the cab where the bolts came through.
Before you start, get under the truck and consider your gas tank and catalytic converter heat shield position and what you may have to do to accommodate the seat mounts.
Don't apologize for asking questions... that's the great part about this forum.... a great place to find help. Without some members of this forum, I would have had to do lots more research and trial and error on several projects. Welcome and ask away!
If you are headed to the junk yard, take a battery pack along so you can make sure everything works and also so you can move the seats to get to the mounting bolts. Disconnect the air bags!
Scott
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Well today has not been my day! Went to the yard found a 3/93 deville seats looked similar dual heated seats and the big buckle allowing me to use truck belts. Got em all out,paid for em loaded them in the car and ripped the seat cushion on the passenger seat with the drivers seat frame. Oh well off to the parts store to get a leather repair kit at 25.00. Got home fixed the one rip in the seat while it was drying went over and wired the drivers seat. Piece of cake., Till i started working with the heated seat part. The elements are out on the seats is my best guess. Turns onn relay clicks but no heat. Back to the JY i go hoping they will exchange seats. Anyway PromiseKeeper how did you wire the heated portion up in your seats?
\I know yours had the seat modual under it you bypassed and used another switch for the seat motors. Same thing im gonna do. But the whole basis for this swap is for the heated seats.
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When you tested the heaters were you sitting on the seat or did you just turn them on and wait? I don't know if all heated seat work the same way but the one's in our Chrysler 300 and our Dodge Durango would not heat up without someone sitting in the seat. They would turn on but not heat up. Once someone sat in the seat they started getting hot in just a few minutes.
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sitting in the seat waiting on them to warm up. I had a magnum that was the same way. Almost wish there was a bmw in the salvage yard. Got in the wifes 5 series this morning <around 18 deg outside> and within 1 minute pleasantly warm! followed by the heated steering wheel.
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When I wired up the heat and lumbar, I could do it direct since the controls for that were already on the side of the seats. The heat worked without me sitting on them. If they exchange the seats, I'd take a battery pack along to hook up to the donor car to test things out before doing all of that work. Just make sure you disconnect the air bags first.
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Yeah lol! They exchanged the seats and i took the ohm meter out with me armed with some heavy knowledge that i will share with everyone. Had to get a set of seats out of an eldorado cause thats the only pair i could find with good seat heaters. Got them home hooked the seats up< passenger side was a breeze > Drivers side was also! ima take photos tonight and share the wiring diagram. I also have some info on the narrow seat buckle problem and how to correct it to use the truck belts. So should i get the mods to make it a sticky when its done?? I have to take pics still and do some documentation.
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Not to take anything away from the original poster but a simple addition. The seats are very easy to wore up. Or the seats i got were. From a 97 eldroado. They have the same switches on the sides as Promisekeeper is using and the black box under the seat that was giving him greif. Maybe you got a bad box? Anyway here we go. What i did was get the seat buckles out of a 1994 sedan deville,they are the wide buckles like the trucks use and basically bolt right into place of narrow buckle. Seat belt problem solved for the belt patrol. Again i cant say it will be fine in an accident as promisekeeper has said before but that is the way gm did it from the factory.
Now on to the wiring. Uber simple!! There are 2 large gauge wires under the seat. One being red and the other being black. Red is positive and black is chassis ground. Heres where the magic is. The orange 18-22ga wire goes to the switched acc in the fuse panel and that will make the seats move when the key is on. Without it there will be no movement of the seat. The passenger seat does not have the black box under it but does have the same orange wire in the harness with the heavy wires. It also has to be connected to the fuse panel. Its purpose is only for the lumbar function in the seat.
Now on to the Heated seat wiring. This one was a little tricky. The car i got the seats from was pilfered of the switches for the heated seats. They were in the center shifter council anyway. So i went over to the nearest sedan deville and got the switch out of it. They use the same heat setup as the eldorado. Youll notice the wire colors are not the same but that is why we are here. On the seat side there is orange ,black, light blue, and pink. On the deville switch there is Brown,black,dark blue, and pink. Basically its pink to pink,light blue to drk blue, black to black, and orange to brown. The orange and brown receive 12 positive and the blacks are the ground. Turn the switch on the light will turn on followed by the relay click and warm time for you.
I have not mounted the seats im sure its straight foward like promosekeepers install. I have 12 pics to upload but it says they are too big to upload? These seats i got were the only ones that had working elements in them. I really dont care how they look -1 its a plow truck -2 SPINAL STENOSIS please dont be critical on their current condition. Function over beauty any day. Those are not holes in the drivers seat there was some brake calipers sitting on the seat i figure over time it will pop back out?
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more
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questions?